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If they become Christians then that means that they are no longer Jews...
Agreed...
The term ιουδαιοις is a flexible term, and IS defined the following way numerous times in the NT (emphasis mine)...
'The only point is that the relationship worked out in individual stories gives to John’s us of ιουδαιοις an emphasis which obviously did not lie in the name previously, but was made possible by the fact it denoted the religious attitude of those who were thus designated ιουδαιοις is a name for those who reject the claim of Jesus to lordship, and who remain Jews because they do so.'
Reference:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 359 - 391
Agreed...
The term ιουδαιοις is a flexible term, and IS defined the following way numerous times in the NT (emphasis mine)...
'The only point is that the relationship worked out in individual stories gives to John’s us of ιουδαιοις an emphasis which obviously did not lie in the name previously, but was made possible by the fact it denoted the religious attitude of those who were thus designated ιουδαιοις is a name for those who reject the claim of Jesus to lordship, and who remain Jews because they do so.'
Reference:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 359 - 391
C
Re: TriUnity
I modified the long post, Bowman and cut to the main point here.
I don't believe that there's any confusion on the Triune Nature of the Godhead & the Absolute Co-Equality of The Three in One, if we stay with His Word only and not the words of men - regardless if they're called 'Church Fathers', or "divines", etc. for countless centuries.
This the most important foundational belief that all the rest of what we believe and how we walk before Him is built upon.
Our view of Who GOD Is, should be sought out through His Own Words only and sought with all of our heart, mind, soul, strength and very much prayer.
According to these verses given above, I only am asking one question - WHO indwells true believers?
.
I modified the long post, Bowman and cut to the main point here.
I don't believe that there's any confusion on the Triune Nature of the Godhead & the Absolute Co-Equality of The Three in One, if we stay with His Word only and not the words of men - regardless if they're called 'Church Fathers', or "divines", etc. for countless centuries.
This the most important foundational belief that all the rest of what we believe and how we walk before Him is built upon.
Our view of Who GOD Is, should be sought out through His Own Words only and sought with all of our heart, mind, soul, strength and very much prayer.
According to these verses given above, I only am asking one question - WHO indwells true believers?
.
The NT, just like the OT, is clear that we need to worship God as He has revealed Himself – which is Triune.
Paul clearly distanced himself from his unbelieving Jewish brethren by his following belief declaration:
But I confess this to you that according to the Way, which they say is a sect, so I worship the ancestral God believing all things according to that having been written in the Law and the Prophets, having hope toward God, which these themselves also admit, of a resurrection being about to be of the dead, both of just and unjust ones. (Acts 24.14)
Clearly, Paul builds upon the previous Hebrew prophets and is now able to worship God properly ‘according to The Way’ and according to that which had previously been written in the Torah and the prophets.
Obviously, Paul is able to see what his Jewish brethren have missed. Jews have been in denial of proper worship of God – and ‘The Way’ has laid the foundation for proper worship to God.
Proper worship of God:
But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.
(John 4.23 - 24)
This proper worship is as a Triune entity:
Further, the Book of Revelation shows us clearly the deity interchangeability between Father, Son and Spirit and amply demonstrates that each receives worship as the one God.
Paul clearly distanced himself from his unbelieving Jewish brethren by his following belief declaration:
But I confess this to you that according to the Way, which they say is a sect, so I worship the ancestral God believing all things according to that having been written in the Law and the Prophets, having hope toward God, which these themselves also admit, of a resurrection being about to be of the dead, both of just and unjust ones. (Acts 24.14)
Clearly, Paul builds upon the previous Hebrew prophets and is now able to worship God properly ‘according to The Way’ and according to that which had previously been written in the Torah and the prophets.
Obviously, Paul is able to see what his Jewish brethren have missed. Jews have been in denial of proper worship of God – and ‘The Way’ has laid the foundation for proper worship to God.
Proper worship of God:
But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeks such, the ones worshiping Him. God is spirit, and the ones worshiping Him must worship in spirit and truth.
(John 4.23 - 24)
This proper worship is as a Triune entity:
- Father
- Son (Truth)
- Spirit
Further, the Book of Revelation shows us clearly the deity interchangeability between Father, Son and Spirit and amply demonstrates that each receives worship as the one God.
That may have been what you were taught, but that is NOT what the Bible says:
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (ISV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] May the God of peace himself make you holy in every way. And may your whole being—spirit, soul, and body—be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
THREE PARTS, ONE BEING.
Hebrews 4:12 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Isn't it amazing that the Greek word can mean the human mind, and even though the Greek word is [FONT=Gentium !important]psychē[/FONT], most Christians cannot tell you the difference between soul and spirit.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (ISV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] May the God of peace himself make you holy in every way. And may your whole being—spirit, soul, and body—be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
THREE PARTS, ONE BEING.
Hebrews 4:12 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Greek Word: [FONT="]ψυχή[/FONT]
Transliteration: [FONT="]psychē[/FONT]
Phonetic Pronunciation:
psoo-khay'
Root: from <G5594>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 9:608,1342
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: Doubt (be in; make to), Doubtful, Doubting, Heart, Heartily, Life, Living, Lifetime, Life-giving, Soul
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
soul 58
life 40
mind 3
heart 1
heartily + <G1537> 1
not tr 2
[Total Count: 105]
from <G5594> (psucho); breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstract or concrete (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from <G4151> (pneuma), which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from <G2222> (zoe), which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew <H5315> (nephesh), <H7307> (ruwach) and <H2416> (chay)) :- heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
Transliteration: [FONT="]psychē[/FONT]
Phonetic Pronunciation:
Root: from <G5594>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 9:608,1342
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: Doubt (be in; make to), Doubtful, Doubting, Heart, Heartily, Life, Living, Lifetime, Life-giving, Soul
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
soul 58
life 40
mind 3
heart 1
heartily + <G1537> 1
not tr 2
[Total Count: 105]
from <G5594> (psucho); breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstract or concrete (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from <G4151> (pneuma), which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from <G2222> (zoe), which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew <H5315> (nephesh), <H7307> (ruwach) and <H2416> (chay)) :- heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
GOD still refers to Born Again Jewish Believers in the Messiah Jesus Christ as JEWS.
Romans 2:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and ⌊true⌋ circumcision is not something visible in the flesh.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter. That man’s praise is not from men but from God.
That is GOD's Definition.
John 10:15-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
And that ONE FLOCK is made up of two folds,
Jewish true believers who have had their hearts circumcised by the Holy Spirit;
and Gentile true believers who have had their hearts circumcised by the Holy Spirit.
BOTH FOLDS BELONG TO THE ONE FLOCK THAT IS ALSO KNOWN AS "THE BRIDE OF CHRIST".
Deal with it. They are our Christian BROTHERS, and they are STILL Jewish Believers in the Messiah Jesus Christ.
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ONE, The Godhead is made up of three personages, each with a different function within that Godhead;
YET they are all three co-equally that ONE GOD, and there is NO other gods.
FALSE Doctrine about the Holy Trinity, does NOT constitute a different view about Trinity
(such as the Mormon doctrine of many gods, or other false doctrines);
but rather that would constitute belief in a FALSE god.
Using the same terminology, but meaning something totally different, does not whitewash the lie.
Re: You're reaching for the stars...
WRONG, everyone of them will be JEWS from the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and Christians are NOT spiritual Israelites.
YES we have the faith of Abraham, but that does not make us spiritual Israelites; BECAUSE ABRAHAM WAS NOT AN ISRAELITE, he was from UR of the Chaldees and GOD said he would be the father of many nations.
GOD is NOT finished with Israel, HIS chosen Nation. Get over it, Jack Chick's idea that we are spiritual Israelites is a TOTAL FALSHOOD.
The only mortals that will inherit the land of Israel in the Lord's Kingdom will be JEWS, as HE REIGNS ON THRONE OF DAVID for a thousand years.
1 Chronicles 16:15-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Remember His covenant forever— the promise He ordained for a thousand generations,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] ⌊the covenant⌋ He made with Abraham, swore to Isaac,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and confirmed to Jacob as a decree, and to Israel as an everlasting covenant:
[SUP]18 [/SUP] “I will give the land of Canaan to you as your inherited portion.”
What part of everlasting is so hard to understand?
WRONG, everyone of them will be JEWS from the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and Christians are NOT spiritual Israelites.
YES we have the faith of Abraham, but that does not make us spiritual Israelites; BECAUSE ABRAHAM WAS NOT AN ISRAELITE, he was from UR of the Chaldees and GOD said he would be the father of many nations.
GOD is NOT finished with Israel, HIS chosen Nation. Get over it, Jack Chick's idea that we are spiritual Israelites is a TOTAL FALSHOOD.
The only mortals that will inherit the land of Israel in the Lord's Kingdom will be JEWS, as HE REIGNS ON THRONE OF DAVID for a thousand years.
1 Chronicles 16:15-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Remember His covenant forever— the promise He ordained for a thousand generations,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] ⌊the covenant⌋ He made with Abraham, swore to Isaac,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and confirmed to Jacob as a decree, and to Israel as an everlasting covenant:
[SUP]18 [/SUP] “I will give the land of Canaan to you as your inherited portion.”
What part of everlasting is so hard to understand?
P
In reading the last couple posts I would say that there are 3 groups addressed :the Jew, the Gentile and the Church (comprised of Jew and Gentile that believe in Jesus as Savior and Messiah or one new man) God will not break His promise to Israel and He will not break His promises to us.(not a man that He should lie)
Again...
Your next three examples ALL state the same thing in the Hebrew...that Yahweh is 'haelohim'...i.e. all the Gods!
Your selection of scriptures really is impeccable....
Your next three examples ALL state the same thing in the Hebrew...that Yahweh is 'haelohim'...i.e. all the Gods!
Your selection of scriptures really is impeccable....