An inflated sense of beauty...

[Roh_Chris]

I had posted this in another thread, but since some pointed out that it deserves another thread I am creating one for this. (Thank you, MissCris and Holly! Thank you Inu for replying).

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I saw this worrying video about women in Venezuela. I'd like to hear the comments from the ladies on CC.

1) Do you face such situations in your daily life?
2) When are such comments on looks/physical attributes reasonable and when are they not? (For e.g. preference for life partners, etc.)
3) How do you think men (in general) can help in your personal struggle against such stereotypes?
4) Addendum #1 - Do you find it worrying that some of the women featured in the video actually supported the argument that women must be more 'physically attractive'?


(Please don't be offended by this video. There are certain scenes of surgery. Viewer discretion is highly advised.)

[video=youtube;LHcwoCy_ZHA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHcwoCy_ZHA[/video]

 

[Roh_Chris]

Adding the reply from Inu..

This is actually sad.... But I know a lot of woman battle with this, the feeling of being accepted as what "society" labels as beautiful. What happens when you're old and wrinkled and everything sags? No amount of surgery in the world is going to stop gravity and aging from taking it's course.

A woman needs to love herself and create her own definition of BEAUTIFUL... In the end, you can dress up the outer body and make it look all good but if your heart isn't in the right place, you're actually just a pretty meat sack which will eventually tear at the seems and perish...

To answer your questions:

1. When I was younger, yes... people use to tease me cause of my braces and glasses. Now, not so much.
2. I think it's appropriate if you know the woman for a while and it isn't meant in a forward or perverse manner. I personally hate it when random guys call me "sexy"... They usually either stop talking to me or apologise and back off after I respond to them...
3. Use the word beautiful more often....

 

[Roh_Chris]

And the suggestions from MissCris and Holly..

I think this topic is deserving of its own thread
(Really, it is...I'll respond in it if you start one)

agreed........

 

[zeroturbulence]

Kenthomas better not watch that video or else vivian might have to find a new bf.

 

[secularhermit]

I´m not asked but, as I see my daughter, there is such sense pushed in her mind and others.

As man, an a Venezuelan, I think I have developed the adicction because I never liked fatness or anything hindering what has ended up in an inflated sense of sensual idolatry.

 

[MissCris]

1) Do you face such situations in your daily life?
2) When are such comments on looks/physical attributes reasonable and when are they not? (For e.g. preference for life partners, etc.)
3) How do you think men (in general) can help in your personal struggle against such stereotypes?
4) Addendum #1 - Do you find it worrying that some of the women featured in the video actually supported the argument that women must be more 'physically attractive'?

This video- and any other video, article, movie, show, photograph, etc. that tells women (or men) that they aren't good enough as they are- makes me sad. Though I'm not at all surprised by it, or the extremes that women go to in order to be seen as "beautiful"; this is the world we live in, a world where physical beauty is so important that people will go under the knife multiple times to achieve it. Even more heartbreaking is that even once they've done that, once they've had their surgery, they're not happy. They think they need more, something else, always something better.

To answer the questions-

1. I've never faced a situation quite as extreme as what's presented in the video, but there's still the pressure to be beautiful, to look a certain way, to do whatever it takes to be physically attractive. I think everyone faces this to some degree. I've had people tell me I should get some type of "work" done- implants, lifts, whatever. And that was in highschool, when I was in the best shape of my life. Since then, I've been put down mostly by other women- example, I applied at a clothing boutique in the mall, the girl I gave my application to whispered to her friend as I was leaving "She's not pretty enough to work here". Really? I was pretty hurt by that at the time, I felt like if women thought I was ugly, then surely men did too, and if everyone thought I was unattractive, then I really must be.

It's a horrible, downward spiral, once we begin to lose our self-esteem, and it's a hell of a hard climb back up.

I still sometimes feel the pressure to fit the world's beauty standards, but I've come a long way and no longer care like I used to. My appearance isn't everything. People are going to judge and dislike me no matter what I do. But there are also those people who love and accept me as I am, and that's what I try to focus on now.

2. I don't know how to answer this one- when is it acceptable to criticize someone's physical appearance? I don't think it's ever an ok thing to do. We have no idea how a person will be affected by our words, so we should choose our words with extreme care. If you don't have to comment on someone's appearance, don't. If they ask your opinion, voice it with love.

3. I don't think I'd place the responsibility for women's struggles with how they view themselves on men. Not entirely. Do men play a part in where society has ended up, what is now considered "beautiful"? Yes. But so do we, so do women. We believe the lies, ladies, that we're not good enough. And then we dole out the cash to change ourselves, based on what people we don't even know think is "beauty". I really feel like if women were more able (and willing) to ignore what the media pushes as "beautiful" or "sexy" or "gorgeous", if women refused to buy into it, things could change. I know it won't happen. But I'm not going to put all the blame on men (though there are those who certainly are at fault, like the man in the video).

4. I absolutely find it worrying, and sad, and even sickening, that other women support this junk. Like I said, it's not just men that push women to change themselves to be "beautiful". Women have bought into the lie, like I said, about what is beautiful and what isn't. And then we go on to teach our daughters to believe it, too.

Everything about that video is disturbing to me. Not surprising, but just...sick.

 

[Rachel20]

I found this video very disturbing. Especially the man at the beginning when he laughs and says inner beauty doesn't exist.


It does, but it's been masked.

Honestly this culture of focusing only on the outside is completely against what we as Christians are expected to be. Not only to not conform to the standards of this world but also to be modest.

So these kind of things really annoy me.


1) Do you face such situations in your daily life?


To be honest, I don't feel any pressure to look in any certain way or if there was, I never cared for it.


2) When are such comments on looks/physical attributes reasonable and when are they not? (For e.g. preference for life partners, etc.)


I have had many comments and compliments from people on my looks. My reactions to it depends really

Sometimes, if I sit alone at a coffee shop or just wait for a bus, random men have come to me and struck up conversations.

It has always made me uncomfortable.

Personally, I prefer that my looks or anything not be part of any equation and that people would rather know me as who I am as a person rather than my outer appearance.

I do appreciate compliments about my looks from the people closest to me - friends and family.

Maybe there is hypocrisy, but if there's a man I am partial to, then his compliments on my looks are worth what a thousand people say.

And only what he says would matter If he thinks I am beautiful, than I could hardly care what anyone else thinks.


3) How do you think men (in general) can help in your personal struggle against such stereotypes?


Personally for me, I don't care anymore for what other men think or pursue.

If they can't like me for the way I am, then why would I waste my time ? No one can help you feel confident in yourself but God and you.

You don't need external validation from other people. I appreciate it when men give sincere compliments in a respectful way.

Sometimes some men, so far not Christian , have taken a compliment too far. They start out complimenting on looks and then go on to aggressively get more sexual.

At that point of time, I just break off conversation.


4) Addendum #1 - Do you find it worrying that some of the women featured in the video actually supported the argument that women must be more 'physically attractive'?



Yes. I think society is sick.

 

[ChandlerFan]

I'm not saying I do this perfectly, but one thing I'm trying to be more mindful to do is ignore TV/billboard/magazine advertisements that have pictures or clips of women simply because the photos aren't real and the videos tend to be highly sexualized and airbrushed. The second one is obviously a given as a guy attempting to avoid avenues of lust, but the first one is more because I don't want my idea of what is physically attractive to be shaped by fake pictures. They are altered and photoshopped to enhance the most attractive features and to make the blemishes disappear. This expectation on women to need to look like what the pictures depict is so destructive, and I don't want to be any part of perpetuating it.

Be healthy, dress well, love God, and love yourself. Those are the most attractive things you can do, ladies. And when you pinpoint ways in which you want to improve yourself, physically or otherwise, do so in the freedom of the Gospel that says that your worth is not dependent on you making those improvements, nor is it dependent on a man's acceptance of you. Your worth comes from being a daughter of God's, uniquely formed and fashioned with His own hands. Simply the fact that Christ, who is God, died in order to have a relationship with you makes your worth impassable. That's what you have to preach to yourself every day. Forget about the woman on the magazine cover and be more like Jesus instead.

 

[Rachel20]

I'm not saying I do this perfectly, but one thing I'm trying to be more mindful to do is ignore TV/billboard/magazine advertisements that have pictures or clips of women simply because the photos aren't real and the videos tend to be highly sexualized and airbrushed. The second one is obviously a given as a guy attempting to avoid avenues of lust, but the first one is more because I don't want my idea of what is physically attractive to be shaped by fake pictures. They are altered and photoshopped to enhance the most attractive features and to make the blemishes disappear. This expectation on women to need to look like what the pictures depict is so destructive, and I don't want to be any part of perpetuating it.

Be healthy, dress well, love God, and love yourself. Those are the most attractive things you can do, ladies. And when you pinpoint ways in which you want to improve yourself, physically or otherwise, do so in the freedom of the Gospel that says that your worth is not dependent on you making those improvements, nor is it dependent on a man's acceptance of you. Your worth comes from being a daughter of God's, uniquely formed and fashioned with His own hands. Simply the fact that Christ, who is God, died in order to have a relationship with you makes your worth impassable. That's what you have to preach to yourself every day. Forget about the woman on the magazine cover and be more like Jesus instead.

Absolutely cool!! Awesome post ChandlerFan !!! ^_^


Instead of focusing on the world, we should put our focus on Jesus and the things of the Spirit. Yay!!!

Romans 8:6

For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace

 

[Fenner]

That first guy in the video has been lifted more times then a keychain at the gift shop of a shoplifter's convention. No wonder why he's pro surgery. Eeeks.

 

[Fenner]

You know what makes me laugh? When I see a commercial for wrinkle cream and the model is 25 years old. Come on, show me someone in their mid 40's like me, or even older. I'll have you all know perfection is now photoshopped. Or the women who wear the spanx, the undergarments to help hide bulges. They're usually tall and skinny. It doesn't make sense, show me someone my size, then I'll actually know if it might work.

You can get fake boobs, but if you're miserable about your self, that won't change. You'll just have two big problems to deal with down the line. I'm not super busty, but they're big enough. I've known women who have very large chests, most of them don't like it. Some women are curvy, some aren't. I like the fact that they've made the hips wider and larger, that's real for most of us. The boobs, eh, some of us have a little, some women are more flat. Unless you're surgically enhanced they aren't that upright.

 

[Rachel20]

Also, I am unsure of this question

2) When are such comments on looks/physical attributes reasonable and when are they not? (For e.g. preference for life partners, etc.)

Do you mean to ask socially acceptable conventions for compliments ? That's what I assumed when I answered your post. However, whether that was the intent of your question or not,

I agree with ChandlerFan's post and that is reflective of my thinking on this matter.

So if my answers don't line up concurrently with what was supposed to be asked, sorry


Anyway good topic.

 

[sassylady]

I'm at work and my computer won't play a video, but since I'm in my 50's and 50 lbs overweight, I feel absolutely worthless and unattractive. Even though I carry the weight well. I've been told I am attractive, but I don't feel it because I'm nowhere near the ideal. I've even seen Christian dating sites where the men want a "slim, attractive woman". I wonder anymore if even a Christian man can appreciate a woman who has any value outside of her looks. I don't see things getting any better as more and more commercials and ads only show the best of the best physically.

Several years ago I had lost all my extra pre-pregnancy weight and was told I looked good. I dated three different men from church that I believe only dated me because I looked good. I got depressed and put my weight back on. I don't like being like this but if the right man comes along he will not care about that.

I know a lot of it is in my own mind, but when so many men only seem to notice the beautiful women, it's hard to hold out any hope of anybody noticing somebody who is not so great.

 

[kenthomas27]

Kenthomas better not watch that video or else vivian might have to find a new bf.

This was rich rich! There's a lot of low hanging fruit here Zero..... a lot of things I could do with Hal. But I'm not going there! I'm too big a man for that! I'm mature now. I've been mature since.......well...yesterday. There will be no fiberglass sharpens fiberglass jokes - nothing! I'm a changed man!

 

[kenthomas27]

I'm at work and my computer won't play a video, but since I'm in my 50's and 50 lbs overweight, I feel absolutely worthless and unattractive. Even though I carry the weight well. I've been told I am attractive, but I don't feel it because I'm nowhere near the ideal. I've even seen Christian dating sites where the men want a "slim, attractive woman". I wonder anymore if even a Christian man can appreciate a woman who has any value outside of her looks. I don't see things getting any better as more and more commercials and ads only show the best of the best physically.

Several years ago I had lost all my extra pre-pregnancy weight and was told I looked good. I dated three different men from church that I believe only dated me because I looked good. I got depressed and put my weight back on. I don't like being like this but if the right man comes along he will not care about that.

I know a lot of it is in my own mind, but when so many men only seem to notice the beautiful women, it's hard to hold out any hope of anybody noticing somebody who is not so great.

Well, I happen to think you're quite lovely Ms. S. Lady. Me and Hal concur.

 

[zeroturbulence]

This was rich rich! There's a lot of low hanging fruit here Zero..... a lot of things I could do with Hal. But I'm not going there! I'm too big a man for that! I'm mature now. I've been mature since.......well...yesterday. There will be no fiberglass sharpens fiberglass jokes - nothing! I'm a changed man!

Sorry, Mr. K. I just couldn't resist with it bein all abouts mannerkins an stuff ya know..

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

That first guy in the video has been lifted more times then a keychain at the gift shop of a shoplifter's convention. No wonder why he's pro surgery. Eeeks.

How do you think men (in general) can help in your personal struggle against such stereotypes?

Any time a man makes a comment about a large breasted woman, it confirms for all women who hear it that this is really what men find attractive. It could be a joke, or a look, or an honest opinion, but it does cause damage for those women who might be insecure and hear or see the reaction. We would LIKE to believe that men are all different and appreciate different types of bodies. So if a woman doesn't have THAT body, it's okay. Someone out there is going to love her body as it is. This is what I choose to believe.

That is, of course, a completely superficial answer to your question. Because women do want and need to feel beautiful to their men. It's just part of the battle of our worldly flesh. But on a deeper note, any man who accepts, appreciates and VOICES that appreciation for a woman's noble character, kind and gentle heart, compassionate nature, gifts and skills and passions in life... that man is investing something important that will make a fragile woman more confident and accepting of who she is. Beauty is fleeting. Nourish what can grow and last.

Addendum #1 - Do you find it worrying that some of the women featured in the video actually supported the argument that women must be more 'physically attractive'?

I am not surprised at all by this, actually. Sometimes I wonder if women are the ones really pushing these thoughts and ideas forward. This mentality is more often self-inflicted, ladies. In our efforts to "be whatever men want", we've chosen to lose ourselves in favor of something not real that will bring no true joy.

 

[Roh_Chris]

Thank you MissCris, Inu, Fenner, Rachel20, ChandlerFan, Grace-like-rain, secularhermit and sassylady for your comments. It was interesting to note that the responsibility for this lies on both, men and women alike.


I want to ask another thought-provoking question here.

Look at the women shoppers in the video I posted in my OP. They bought the outfits because they wanted to look like the mannequin. And the shopkeeper herself testified that her sales went up AFTER they changed their mannequins. From a Christian perspective, is it wrong of the shopkeeper to have use mannequins like that?

In the same line of thought, what do you think a Christian creative designer/brand manager/marketing head when he has to create an advertisement for his company's products? Please put yourself in the subject's shoes when you post your opinion. The person has to generate sales else he may lose his job. If the advertisement is not "well received" by the target community, the sales will not take off. On the other hand, he has to uphold his Christian virtues according to which, it is wrong to excessively focus on the physical traits of the women. How do you think he should behave?

 

[Roh_Chris]

2. I don't know how to answer this one- when is it acceptable to criticize someone's physical appearance? I don't think it's ever an ok thing to do. We have no idea how a person will be affected by our words, so we should choose our words with extreme care. If you don't have to comment on someone's appearance, don't. If they ask your opinion, voice it with love.

Also, I am unsure of this question

2) When are such comments on looks/physical attributes reasonable and when are they not? (For e.g. preference for life partners, etc.)

Thank you for asking me to clarify. I apologize for the ambiguity in my question.

What I meant is that is it okay for a person (either man or woman) to "prefer" a type of partner? How honest can he/she be when turning someone he/she does not find "physically desirable"? (This question can be answered by men and women because I think the answers may differ.)

 

[Roh_Chris]

Sorry for adding to the post count of this thread, but I wanted to share another video which is relevant to the subject of our discussion. Hope it puts things into perspective.

(This video is safe and is not disturbing).

[video=youtube;5XF66Ku4a9U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XF66Ku4a9U[/video]