don't just say it prove it with scripture...that faith without works save....show your faith without works...as I have asked you before...show how faith without works is done and prove James wrong...
The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE
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don't just say it prove it with scripture...that faith without works save....show your faith without works...as I have asked you before...show how faith without works is done and prove James wrong...
I have proven it and you are blind to the truth that JAMES is speaking from the perspective of a MAN being able to see the inward SAVING faith that one has......
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE!
That whosoever believeth on his NAME shall not perish but IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE
IN the grace you are having been saved OUT OF FAITH and that NOT OF YOURSELVES IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT OF WORKS lest any man should BOAST
BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED
Thy FAITH hath SAVED THEE
These too you will reject in favor of your works, water and your own abilities......Good luck with your gospel of a different kind with no power to save and being double cursed by God to hell....
O foolish Galatians....who hath BEWITCHED YOU........
ANSWER ME...RECIEVED ye the SPIRIT by the WORKS of the law, or by the HEARING of FAITH?
Are ye so FOOLISH? having begun in the SPIRIT, are ye now made perfect by the FLESH.
See, your heretical works/water for salvation is of the devil, bewitches people and makes them two fold the children of hell as well as yourself...salvation and receiving the SPIRIT came BY FAITH not works of the law and or the works of the flesh...
A gospel of a DIFERENT KIND you preach...and I strongly recommend you get right before you take your last breath and end up opening your eyes in the same place the rich man of Luke 16 woke up in.....Trust JESUS in a biblical manner and put your trust into him instead of yourself, water and the works of the law/flesh which have NO POWER to SAVE.....!
T
Tateej
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You keep saying this thought it's not James judging man here, he's writting to the twelve tribes scattered abroad telling them that don't think you're safe if you've faith in God and do nothing to show that you truly have genuine faith. People were saying they believed in God and their actions spoke otherwise. He's saying let your life reflect who you say you serve. As for my question I've already stated twice. What about all the other verses that give something other than belief to be saved. Cause even the devils believe in God yet they're not saved. Do the other verses giving different condition ALONG WITH belief not matter?
all you have proven is that you do not understand scripture....ANSWER ME...RECIEVED ye the SPIRIT by the WORKS of the law, or by the HEARING of FAITH?...who is talking about the LAW?.....did you hear that faith without works is dead...?
I have answered and you reject...the whole key to the James text is found within the two words...SHOW ME...your faith....and you fail to understand this...so...choose the reject the words of PAUL found above in GALATIANS where he rips those who add works to faith for salvation....calls it a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND...which has NO POWER to SAVE and is DOUBLE CURSED to hell.....
THIS ONE THOUGHT out of GALATIANS chapter 1 and 3 answers your QUESTION and tells you to seek other conclusions and yet both you and NO BIRTH reject the obvious!
Hardly as I have proven the truth and you show your inability to understand and still reject the James text and how James states clearly SHOW ME (as a man) the faith that saves....so like I said...repent and trust Jesus or die under a gospel that has no power to save.....!
where does James say that ?
you make up things...
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
he says a man may say he has faith, and I have works....show me your faith without your works (which is what I have been asking you to show) and I will show you my faith by my works....
more like ......show me your faith without works....which is impossible for you to do...since it is the key ....SHOW ME...your faith without works...
The only people I see here who appear to be apprehensive about "works" are the ones who know they are in deep doo doo when they read those verses you quoted in James hehe
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Yeah, everyone should sit down and ponder this one with Jesus. You'll get it figured out pretty quick if you do
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Yeah, everyone should sit down and ponder this one with Jesus. You'll get it figured out pretty quick if you do
Like I said...reject what is being said......the whole point is how a man can see faith in another man.......and you being a worker for salvation fail to see the truth...
Abraham had FAITH before Circumcision
NOAH had faith before he built the ark
RAHAB had faith before she hid the spies
Joshua had faith before he entered the land
A man is RENDERED LEGALLY INNOCENT BEFORE GOD BY FAITH without the deeds of the laws (works)
A man's faith can be seen BY MEN based upon what he does...
It is simple and yet your blindness and rejection of simple truth speaks volumes........!
no the point is faith without works is dead....
Abraham had FAITH and was circumcised
NOAH had faith and he built the ark
RAHAB had faith and she hid the spies
Joshua had faith and he entered the land
a man's sins are remitted....faith with works
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
a man's faith is what pleases God...
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.ask Abraham, Noah, Rahab, and Joshua....
The only people I see here who appear to be apprehensive about "works" are the ones who know they are in deep doo doo when they read those verses you quoted in James hehe
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Yeah, everyone should sit down and ponder this one with Jesus. You'll get it figured out pretty quick if you do
You should know...especially since you, like the lost Pharisee of old trusts into themselves and in doing so, not only end up in hell, but also take the disciples they made with them to hell...keep rejecting Galatians and following your faith+works for salvation and see where it gets you...a gospel of a different kind...hope you like it hot!
I cut the rest out as you don't have a clue and your first point is false and contrary so...seeing how you cannot even get ONE POINT right shows your ignorance.....
Romans 4:9-11
FAITH reckoned unto ABRAHAM for RIGHTEOUSNESS
How reckoned?
When in CIRCUMCISION or UNCIRCUMCISION
NOT in CIRCUMCISION, but in UNCIRCUMCISION
HE RECIEVED the SIGN of CIRCUMCISION A SEAL of RIGHTEOUSNESS of the
FAITH which he HAD YET BEING UNCIRCUMCISED
I suggest you study a bit and open your blind eyes along with your working for salvation Pharisee friends!
Does the person who has received his salvation through faith begin his life in Christ by letting Christ work in him to grow that faith? Doesn't that growth in faith lead one to the works that Christ has for him. I know a lovely couple of 69 years who by your standards probably has no works and thus no faith. Yet that no visible works Christian couple has raised two pastor children and a Christian musician/teacher daughter. They will tell you that during the first 10 years they were married (they were saved before they were married) they will tell you that God spent his time preparing them before they adopted their first child.
You want to condemn those who have faith but no works. God will take them who come to Him by faith in Christ and develop them into working parts of His Kingdom.
if I say Abraham had faith and was circumcised it is understood he had faith before he was circumcised...you are saying the same thing I said...you were trying to separate faith from works I was showing faith with works...go over the thread again....slowly....
No doubt and I agree....it takes time, maturity and growth before an apple TREE bears fruit....but it is an apple tree from the very day that is sprouts.......this they fail to understand.....Just like Abraham having FAITH before he was circumcised which was the sign and token of the faith that he had before circumcision.........!
You can spin it anyway you want, to try and prove your heresy....you changed the word and embellished the word to try and prove your point...Abraham had faith LONG before he had circumcision so...keep adding to the word and or changing the word to argue your moot heretical point....!
Romans 4:9-11
FAITH reckoned unto ABRAHAM for RIGHTEOUSNESS
How reckoned?
When in CIRCUMCISION or UNCIRCUMCISION
NOT in CIRCUMCISION, but in UNCIRCUMCISION
HE RECIEVED the SIGN of CIRCUMCISION A SEAL of RIGHTEOUSNESS of the
FAITH which he HAD YET BEING UNCIRCUMCISED
no the point is faith without works is dead....Abraham had FAITH and was circumcised
Exactly what Satan did...twist the word and add to the word..seems that you are real good at that!
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We can stand bargain like Abraham did for Sodom and Gomorrah ....but God's judgement is righteous....everyone gets their reward....
I don't make a standard ...the word of God is the standard....Christ is the one who said he is going to judge every man according to his works...not me... Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
You can spin it anyway you want, to try and prove your heresy....you changed the word and embellished the word to try and prove your point...Abraham had faith LONG before he had circumcision so...keep adding to the word and or changing the word to argue your moot heretical point....!
Romans 4:9-11
FAITH reckoned unto ABRAHAM for RIGHTEOUSNESS
How reckoned?
When in CIRCUMCISION or UNCIRCUMCISION
NOT in CIRCUMCISION, but in UNCIRCUMCISION
HE RECIEVED the SIGN of CIRCUMCISION A SEAL of RIGHTEOUSNESS of the
FAITH which he HAD YET BEING UNCIRCUMCISED
Originally Posted by newbirth
Abraham had FAITH and was circumcised
Exactly what Satan did...twist the word and add to the word..seems that you are real good at that!
....
what is twisting...so you are saying Abraham had no faith and was circumcised? everyone here has faith with works...show us your faith without works.....
[SUP]7 [/SUP]By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
SO...are you blind or just ignorant to what I actually said or flat lying......and what part of faith which he HAD yet being uncircumcised don't you understand?.....see you reject the very words from the bible so as to swallow your own heretical bs
Romans 4:9-11
FAITH reckoned unto ABRAHAM for RIGHTEOUSNESS
How reckoned?
When in CIRCUMCISION or UNCIRCUMCISION
NOT in CIRCUMCISION, but in UNCIRCUMCISION
HE RECIEVED the SIGN of CIRCUMCISION A SEAL of RIGHTEOUSNESS of the
FAITH which he HAD YET BEING UNCIRCUMCISED