which is what I am saying...he had faith and was circumcised....it should be understood that he had faith before he was circumcised...you oppose simply for the cause of opposing...
retrace the thread...
The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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which is what I am saying...he had faith and was circumcised....it should be understood that he had faith before he was circumcised...you oppose simply for the cause of opposing...
retrace the thread...
No I oppose because you claim WORKS PLUS FAITH EQUALS salvation....ABRAHAM HAD FAITH...was a child of GOD by FAITH without the WORK being ties to FAITH for salvation...you retrace the thread as YOU ADD WORKS to FAITH for salvation....GALATIANS teaches salvation IS BY FAITH ONLY and to ADD works WITH FAITH for salvation is a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND and is NOT the GOSPEL of FAITH ALONE FOR SALVATION....
ABRAHAM HAD FAITH YET BEING UNCIRCUMCISED
YOU WRITE
ABRAHAM HAD FAITH AND WAS CIRCUMCISED in order to support your WORKS/FAITH based salvation of the which I oppose and so does the scripture!
T
Tateej
Guest
Dude, he says show me but it's the inspired writer going through this. James isn't asking for each person to show him, but if you're truly righteous, show it to God, not him personally. God wants to see a follower who believes and shows it by how he lives. What He doesn't want to see is those who claim it yet their acts or works state otherwise. I find more than just the belief thig saying I can be saved with them, yet they still don't matter cause Romans 10:9 shows me a confession with my Beleif, Mark 16:16 states I need to believe and be baptized to be saved and there are other verses that state I can be saved doing something other than Beleif alone yet I can still say whatever I please as long as I keep my faith in God all is well? I can't be double minded in this. A simple faith in holding a rope does the person dangling on the other end useless if I do nothing but hold it, there's gonna be some works involved if I'm going to pull them up and give them safety. Merely holding the rope does no good if I truly did want to save them from this danger, my works reflect that. So a man with faith alone according to you, could die and his actions reflect poorly of his faith of what he professes to be yet he is still saved by his faith alone?
So let me ask you...how many works did the thief on the cross have? So according to your belief a man that trusts into Jesus by saving faith and then gets killed before he can do a work of righteousness is not saved and will cook in hell?
Here is the difference between you and I, between scriptural and unscriptural...
Me-->SAVED entirely by FAITH dia grace VOID of any work
You-->Saved by faith/works
Creation testifies.....How many years is an apple tree and apple tree before it bears fruit?
Not one person who believes salvation by grace through faith has taught that a believer will not have fruit or bear fruit in their lives...Not one of us has taught that......
You believe faith/works and or faith/water and NEITHER one is the GOSPEL.....
Salvation is by faith dia grace and mercy and is a GIFT void of any work and or water!
Baptism is the outward testimony and public association of one who HAS ALREADY BEEN SAVED
A TRUE saved child of GOD will grow, mature and BEAR FRUIT
So...keep trusting into your works and water and denying Galatians chapter 1 and 3...see where it gets you as your trust is in water and works or so it seems!
you speak as if James is addressing the thief on the cross...Christ preached to the dead saints...James is speaking to the living
E
elf3
Guest
Yinz don't get it because you feel you can save yourselves whether by works or baptism or whatever. If you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior and you live your life to Glorify Him you are already saved. Nothing you do can or will add to your salvation. Be baptized as a sign of your faith and do good works because you love Him not to try and save yourself.
Your comment doesn't change the truth of what I posted so get over it!
And the bolded comment you made is ridiculous as God is the GOD of the LIVING and a SAINT is one who has been born again......
You really should lay of the juice and study the word a bit more without religious ignorance and bias!
I agree with this as well......quite simple...good thing it requires a child like faith and acceptance.....religious ignorance will take many to the pit for sure.....!
where does it say Abraham had faith without works???
The scripture supports Abraham with works/faith
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
E
elf3
Guest
Romans 4 in fact says how Abraham was justified before God. You will have read it yourself I ain't typing the whole thing.
1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Matthew 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Deuteronomy 33:2
And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
you assume that Abraham did nothing...[SUP]
8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
You know...doesn't matter how much he reads because until he finds the truth about biblical salvation he will continue to trust into works and water for salvation while being oblivious to the fact that neither have to do with actually gaining eternal life dia our Lord Jesus Christ........
where does the scripture teach...
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
So tell me Einstein is that literal or figurative.......the bolded above.....!
As the word NEKROS can be viewed in either or!
The very scriptures you fail to understand in Peter...the LIKE FIGURE<-----go study these words from the Greek and open your eyes.......!
E
elf3
Guest
You do know that Abraham was seen as righteous before God befor he was circumcised?
He cannot grasp that truth as he cannot understand that saving faith is present and a present reality before ANY WORK is ever done...
Just like the example of wheat that Jesus uses...a seed dies, sprouts and grows a season BEFORE it produces fruit...
Same with an apple tree..it is an apple tree 2 to 3 years before it produces fruit and fruit ONLY comes after GROWTH and MATURITY.....
Faith saves void of works/water and after a period of spiritual maturity the SAVED will eventually produce fruit...even though the fruit has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the salvation which is a past COMPLETED action with PRESENT continuing results.....!
why else would he go into the lower parts of the earth?...
Ephesians 4:7-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[SUP]9 [/SUP](Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
So answer the question and exactly who do you think he was preaching to....SAVED who were carried to Abraham's bosom or the lost who were already COOKING in HELL....