Conditional Salvation

[elf3]

so you agree that you do the works,,,it is just that you don't trust them for your salvation...correct?

Actually it kind of works this way. I have faith in God because of what He did for me. The "good works" I do just kinda happen. I don't strive to do good works but, because of my faith in God these "good works" are produced in me. I bear good fruit on my branch because of the vine I am attached to. My works don't save me because without the correct vine I couldn't do them on the first place.

Now sure there are many people who do "good works" who aren't attached to the vine but why do they do them? Pride or a feeling they can be saved by them.

The branch grafted to the vine correctly will produce good works. Not that we "kinda want too" but just "kinda happens". But also in the same sense we want to to them because we love God and others. Now I know this sounds like a contradiction but before you reply just take a minute and let it sink in.

We were created to Glofiry God so we want to show this by doing good works but they also just kinda happen. It's not us that does this but Christ in us that creates this.

 

[newbirth]

If salvation by work than these group of High rank catholic official go to hell.


Missing girl 'buried in murdered mobster's tomb was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties', claims Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest

• Father Gabriel Amorth, 85, has carried out more than 70,000 exorcisms
• Previously said yoga and Harry Potter are 'the work of the Devil'
• Emanuela Orlandi, 15, went missing in Rome in 1983
• Gangster Enrico De Pedis's tomb opened last week after TV show tip-off

By NICK PISA FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 06:32 EST, 22 May 2012 | UPDATED: 14:30 EST, 23 May 2012

203View comments​

Outspoken: Father Gabriel Amorth said the 15-year-old was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties

The Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest has sensationally claimed a missing schoolgirl thought to be buried in a murdered gangster's tomb was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties.
Father Gabriel Amorth, 85, who has carried out 70,000 exorcisms, spoke out as investigators continued to examine mobster Enrico De Pedis's tomb in their hunt for Emanuela Orlandi.
Last week police and forensic experts broke into the grave after an anonymous phone call to a TV show said the truth about Emanuela's 1983 disappearance would be 'found there'.
And although bones not belonging to the mobster were recovered they have not yet been positively identified as hers.
However Father Amorth, in an interview with La Stampa newspaper, said: 'This was a crime with a sexual motive.
'It has already previously been stated by (deceased) monsignor Simeone Duca, an archivist at the Vatican, who was asked to recruit girls for parties with the help of the Vatican gendarmes.
'I believe Emanuela ended up in this circle. I have never believed in the international theory (overseas kidnappers). I have motives to believe that this was just a case of sexual exploitation.
'It led to the murder and then the hiding of her body. Also involved are diplomatic staff from a foreign embassy to the Holy See.'

Today there was no immediate response from the Vatican to Father Amorth's claims.
But Vatican officials insisted they had always co-operated with the investigation into Orlandi's disappearance - a claim that her brother has often disputed.

Mobster: De Pedis (left) is believed to have been linked to the kidnapping and murder of Emanuela Orlandi (right), who disappeared aged 15 in 1983


Father Amorth is a colourful figure who in the past has also denounced yoga and Harry Potter as the 'work of the Devil'. He was appointed by the late Pope John Paul II as the Vatican's chief exorcist.
It is not the first time Father Amorth has raised eyebrows with his forthright views - two years ago he said sex scandals rocking the Catholic Church were evidence 'the Devil was at work in the Vatican.


Read more: Gabriel Amorth claims Emanuela Orlandi, 'buried in Enrico De Pedis tomb', was 'kidnapped for Vatican sex parties' | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

we are saved by grace through faith.....what does these allegations have to do with being saved by grace through faith?? have you judged these guilty ? on what evidence? and why do you come to me to find out if they are going to hell?

 

[SeaBass]

Faith is usually considered a requirement for salvation. Works is generally considered a fruit (result that comes after salvation).

Obedience/doing righteousness must come before one can be saved.

Rom 6:16 obedience UNTO righteousness.

1 Jn 3:10 one that continues in doing unrighteousness continues to not be of God. It is not until one obeys what God commands he is accepted with God, Acts 10:35.

 

[Jackson123]

we are saved by grace through faith.....what does these allegations have to do with being saved by grace through faith?? have you judged these guilty ? on what evidence? and why do you come to me to find out if they are going to hell?

Don't catholic believe salvation by faith and work? Sex party is consider bad work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't catholic believe salvation by faith and work? Sex party is consider bad work.

They actually have the ost works. Most people just have one or two. The roman church has many, and even then, salvation is not assured.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Obedience/doing righteousness must come before one can be saved.

Rom 6:16 obedience UNTO righteousness.

1 Jn 3:10 one that continues in doing unrighteousness continues to not be of God. It is not until one obeys what God commands he is accepted with God, Acts 10:35.

you have it backwards, salvation must come first. One not born of the spirit can do not good. there are non righteous, no not one, the things of God are foolishness to those who are not his (born again) it is impossible to do good unless you are first saved.

 

[notuptome]

Obedience/doing righteousness must come before one can be saved.

Rom 6:16 obedience UNTO righteousness.

1 Jn 3:10 one that continues in doing unrighteousness continues to not be of God. It is not until one obeys what God commands he is accepted with God, Acts 10:35.

What you propose directly contradicts what God has said in Romans 3:9-18 Where man is described as none are righteous, None understand, none seek after God, mouths filled with cursing and bitterness, feet swift to she blood, destruction and misery are in their ways, they do not know peace, and there is no fear of God before their eyes.

Any one who declares himself worthy of salvation is a fool. Grace is Gods mercy upon those who could never deserve it and because they could never deserve it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[newbirth]

Actually it kind of works this way. I have faith in God because of what He did for me. The "good works" I do just kinda happen. I don't strive to do good works but, because of my faith in God these "good works" are produced in me. I bear good fruit on my branch because of the vine I am attached to. My works don't save me because without the correct vine I couldn't do them on the first place.

Now sure there are many people who do "good works" who aren't attached to the vine but why do they do them? Pride or a feeling they can be saved by them.

The branch grafted to the vine correctly will produce good works. Not that we "kinda want too" but just "kinda happens". But also in the same sense we want to to them because we love God and others. Now I know this sounds like a contradiction but before you reply just take a minute and let it sink in.

We were created to Glofiry God so we want to show this by doing good works but they also just kinda happen. It's not us that does this but Christ in us that creates this.

so you are not responsible for what you do....

The "good works" I do just kinda happen........because of my faith in God these "good works" are produced in me...... Not that we "kinda want too".......

if that is the case then what is Paul talking about here...there is no evidence of what you are speaking about in scripture...
this is what scripture teaches...

Galatians 6:10

As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Titus 2:7
In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
and Peter...
1 Peter 2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you propose directly contradicts what God has said in Romans 3:9-18 Where man is described as none are righteous, None understand, none seek after God, mouths filled with cursing and bitterness, feet swift to she blood, destruction and misery are in their ways, they do not know peace, and there is no fear of God before their eyes.

Any one who declares himself worthy of salvation is a fool. Grace is Gods mercy upon those who could never deserve it and because they could never deserve it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

romans 1 to three speak of this. this is us before we are saved, and God enlightens us to his truth, because our relationship has been restored.

The things of God are FOOLISHNESS to those who are not his (not saved)

 

[Atwood]

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Titus 2:7
In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

And since you fail miserably as measured by those verses, whatever will you do, NewB? Invest in asbestos cloths?

 

[Hoffco]

WOW, You really think that these wicked murderers will go to heaven because of their faith only.?/? If you do,! you are sick ,sick, sick. Love Hoffco.

 

[Atwood]

CONDITIONAL DOCTRINAL SANITY

Since this question is so clearly answered in scripture (like Christianity 101), it is incredible how some want to go on & on in this thread.

The only condition put to man for his salvation is belief/faith in the Savior (not "chance-giver").
Once saved, the only condition of salvation is the power of God!

:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— 4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ
(by grace have ye been saved),
6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of
his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for
by grace have ye been saved
through faith;
and that not of yourselves, it is
the gift of God;
not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus
for good works,
which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that fadeth not away,
reserved in heaven for you, 5 who
by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[elf3]

so you are not responsible for what you do....

if that is the case then what is Paul talking about here...there is no evidence of what you are speaking about in scripture...
this is what scripture teaches...

Galatians 6:10

As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Titus 2:7
In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
and Peter...
1 Peter 2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Ok so you have a problem reading also as you apparently just "scanned" what I posted. Try reading it slower as you completely missed what I am saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

WOW, You really think that these wicked murderers will go to heaven because of their faith only.?/? If you do,! you are sick ,sick, sick. Love Hoffco.

You mean Like king david? Paul??

Yet they were murderers.. But they were also saved by faith only.

 

[Hoffco]

This just shows the extreme sickness and darkness in the minds of Satan's children in the professed christian churches, both catholic and protestant. This is the kind that killed Jesus and million of Jesus' followers. . This is why Jesus will say to so many professional clergy, "depart from me you works of inquiry". Love to all, Hoffco

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This just shows the extreme sickness and darkness in the minds of Satan's children in the professed christian churches, both catholic and protestant. This is the kind that killed Jesus and million of Jesus' followers. . This is why Jesus will say to so many professional clergy, "depart from me you works of inquiry". Love to all, Hoffco

Yet even Jesus said forgive them father, for they know not what they do. Seems God is more forgiving than you are.. So much for being Christlike..

 

[Hoffco]

to Elf, Good works don't " just kinda happen"; they are part the eternal plan of salvation to take wicked sinners and make them holy saints know for their "good works'. Christian WERE, past tense wicked in their sins, but they are changed by the powerful GRACE of God. Eph.2;1-10 and 1Cor.6:9-11 teach this GRACE transforming work in salvation. Salvation is conditional upon Faith, repentance and a holy way of life. That why may are said to "come short of" saving "GRACE". A true Christian can do some wicjed sin, but they will repent or be killed by God, 1Cor teaches this, King David's exp. teaches this. But Saul, never revered to his old sins. Love Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

I think Jesus would advocate death for murders, as His O.T. taught . Jesus will say to them. "depart from me, you workers of iniquity." Love Hoffco

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think Jesus would advocate death for murders, as His O.T. taught . Jesus will say to them. "depart from me, you workers of iniquity." Love Hoffco

so then King david, and saul of tarsus should have been killed according to the law. Thanks for letting me know that. I see where you are coming from, I must ask though, are you sinless? you keep throwing alot of stones. even the pharisees stopped throwing stones when confronted with their own sin..

 

[Hoffco]

The church of Jesus Christ is so sick and apostate because of logical, rational, humanistic, christians like you, eternally-grateful, are rationalizing scriptures to death. Please just teach the whole truth, and stop judging the Bible as wrong. Love Hoffco