What of the dinosaurs?

[Cycel]

Here is something I have never been able to figure out. Dinosaur fossils have been found for a very long time and according to todays science they are thousands possibly millions of years old. But I don't get it, the bible doesn't speak of T rex's attacking ppl. When exactly did they roam the earth? because God created the earth in seven days on the sixth day created man okay so did the dinosaurs go around eating mankind from the very creation of the world then one day were wiped out?

All I have to say is that there were no dinosaurs carried in the ark that God told Noah to build.

It was my own recognition of this, about age ten, that created a problem for me. I had learned in Sunday school the lion was considered the king of beasts and knowing the reputation T-rex had I wondered why, in biblical times, it and not the lion had that epithet. This discovery did not make me into an atheist, but I am quite sure it was one of the things that pushed me in that direction.

Just-me, how can you be certain their were no dinosaurs on the Ark? Personally, I don’t believe there was an Ark, but as far as I am aware Genesis doesn’t rule out the dinosaurs being with Noah. It simply fails to mention them, anywhere. If I was a Bible believer I would take this as evidence that humans existed after the time of the dinosaurs.

 

[Cycel]

Bride, I am curious about your new avatar. I thought at first the woman was perhaps representative of the Mother Goddess, but I realize now she is standing on the Moon, not upon Earth. Is she a lunar goddess? Is she pregnant?

I do like her.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Yes I agree on how one would expect certain design changes to reflect how such creature is to behave. As for a theoretical DNA change after the Fall, I'd agree there would have been one, and we know today there are several genes all humans have that are never activated which implies proof of the same. Even prior to the Flood and afterwards one would expect a genetic change in man due to the drastic change in the environment and also when God purposes to reduce the natural lifespan of mankind, and in fact this also has been proven in this day and age with the Neanderthals/Super-Centenarians and how they are fully humans, but with very slight genetic differences. That's what I was meaning with how Genesis is more provable today than ever before. It's really exciting stuff.

Secondly, purpose of Garden of Eden was a paradise-like inhabitation for mankind. It says man was able to eat of any tree of the garden so long as he ate not of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Does not say mankind was forced to eat to survive, which implies such an activity be for fun, enjoyment, and praise of the Creator. As for the animals we're not told directly what they were doing so much, so that's where one delves into realm of theory. Think logically though, if death had not enterred the world then animals would not have to eat. Creatures like lions could theoretically just stand around looking cool and doing whatever man or God tells them to do. Lol I do know it sounds absurd at first, but that's only from the point of view of mortality. It is not logical to assume mortal paradigms for a state of immortality.

Good post, not only pleasure of taste, what about Gods power in these fruits at the time, if that tree bestowed knowledge of good and evil, what did the other fruit do? We don't know...

 

[4enlightment]

Does being a scavenger as opposed to a predator mean that the animal was vegetarian?

What do you suppose T. rex scavenged? Lettuce?

T. rex ate meat but T. rex didn't eat humans. Not because of the taste of humans. Because T. rex was extinct millions of years before humans arrived on the scene.

You just joined this site. I would suggest at the very least you read all of the posts on this thread. Many of the issues you raise have already been discussed.

There's too many ancient art work that shows that dinosaurs co-existed with man like this section of the Mosaic shows that man had hunted them down.

The mosaic, with an arch-headed framing that identifies its original location as flooring an apse in a grotto, features detailed depictions of Ptolemaic Greeks, black Ethiopians in hunting scenes, and various animals of the Nile river.[SUP][2][/SUP] It is the earliest Roman depiction of Nilotic scenes, of which several more were uncovered at Pompeii.[SUP][3][/SUP] A consensus on the dating of the work is slowly emerging. Paul G. P. Meyboom suggests a date shortly before the reign of Sulla (ca. 100 BC) and treats the mosaic as an early evidence for the spread of Egyptian cults in Italy, where Isis was syncretised with Fortuna. He believes Nilotic scenes were introduced in Rome by Demetrius the Topographer, a Greek artist from Ptolemaic Egypt active ca. 165 BC. Claire Préaux emphasises the "escapist" nature of the fantastic scenery.[SUP][4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_mosaic_of_Palestrina[/SUP]

 

[4enlightment]

Supposed sauropod petroglyph outlined.
Ancient Dinosaur Depictions | Genesis Park.


“The picture above was drawn by North American Anasazi (maybe Anasazi, perhaps Fremont, Ute, or Paiute) Indians that lived in the area that has now become Utah approximately 150 B.C. – 1200 A.D. Even noted anti-creationists agree that it resembles a dinosaur and that the brownish film which has hardened over the picture, along with the pitting and weathering, attests to its age. One evolutionist writes, “There is a petroglyph in Natural Bridges National Monument that bears a startling resemblance to a dinosaur, specifically a Brontosaurus, with a long tail and neck, small head and all.” (Barnes and Pendleton, Canyon Country Prehistoric Indians – Their Culture, Ruins, Artifacts and Rock Art, 1995.) Clearly a native warrior and an Apatosaur-like creature are depicted.”

 

[4enlightment]

Someone must of have seen them in order to create images of them.

In 1945 Waldemar Julsrud, a German immigrant and an experienced archeologist, discovered some little clay statues, buried at the foot of El Toro Mountain, near Acambaro, Guanajuato, in Mexico. Near El Toro and at the other side of the town, in the vicinity of Mount Chivo, more than 33,000 figurines made of porcelain were discovered. Similar relics found nearby were associated to the Chupicuaro pre-classical Chupicuaro Culture (800 BC to 200 AD). The figurines are representations of various species of dinosaurs, which are believed to have disappeared 65 millions years ago.​

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[JackH]

Someone must of have seen them in order to create images of them.

In 1945 Waldemar Julsrud, a German immigrant and an experienced archeologist, discovered some little clay statues, buried at the foot of El Toro Mountain, near Acambaro, Guanajuato, in Mexico. Near El Toro and at the other side of the town, in the vicinity of Mount Chivo, more than 33,000 figurines made of porcelain were discovered. Similar relics found nearby were associated to the Chupicuaro pre-classical Chupicuaro Culture (800 BC to 200 AD). The figurines are representations of various species of dinosaurs, which are believed to have disappeared 65 millions years ago.​

Someone must have seen mermaids in order to create images of them.

And the movie Splash is fact not fiction. Just like Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) videos that prove dinosaurs and humans roamed the earth together, eating each other.

 

[4enlightment]

Someone must have seen mermaids in order to create images of them.

And the movie Splash is fact not fiction. Just like Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) videos that prove dinosaurs and humans roamed the earth together, eating each other.

Yes, man loves to create..

Dinosaurs: Science Or Science Fiction

 

[Cycel]

Someone must of have seen them in order to create images of them.

In 1945 Waldemar Julsrud, a German immigrant and an experienced archeologist, discovered some little clay statues, buried at the foot of El Toro Mountain, near Acambaro, Guanajuato, in Mexico. Near El Toro and at the other side of the town, in the vicinity of Mount Chivo, more than 33,000 figurines made of porcelain were discovered. Similar relics found nearby were associated to the Chupicuaro pre-classical Chupicuaro Culture (800 BC to 200 AD). The figurines are representations of various species of dinosaurs, which are believed to have disappeared 65 millions years ago.​

Did you notice the Ica burial stones have been discounted?

Frankly, the images above look like they were molded by children. I can't believe you actually take this stuff seriously. Can you point to the original source for the photos?

 

[Cycel]

Yes, man loves to create..

Dinosaurs: Science Or Science Fiction

Are you mocking yourself?

 

[4enlightment]

Did you notice the Ica burial stones have been discounted?

Frankly, the images above look like they were molded by children. I can't believe you actually take this stuff seriously. Can you point to the original source for the photos?

This is the site that it originate from, but there are many others. Ancient Artifacts that Challenge Modern Archaeological Thinking
The Acámbaro figures are several thousand small ceramic figurines allegedly found by Waldemar Julsrud in July 1944, in the Mexican city of Acámbaro, Guanajuato. The figurines are said by some to resemble dinosaurs and are sometimes cited as anachronisms. Someyoung-Earth creationists have adduced the existence of figurines as credible evidence for the coexistence of dinosaurs and humans, in an attempt to cast doubt on scientific dating methods and potentially offer support for a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative.[SUP][1][/SUP]
However, there is no known reliable evidence for the validity of the Acámbaro figures as actual ancient artifacts; and many have questioned the motives of those who argue for their validity.[SUP][2]

____________________________________________________________________________________

[/SUP]
Moche Culture Vase in the Form of…?

In the last few weeks I set out to prove my hypothesis at the Harvard Peabody, online archaeological museum site as well as at other online collection sites. The Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology at Harvard University “is steward to one of the oldest and largest collections of cultural objects in the Western Hemisphere”. Other online collections visited include, the Penn Museum, the Met and several Museums of Central and South America.
Could it be shown that creatures that are recognizable as dinosaurs and Not dragons-in the mythological sense are somehow going unnoticed in their online collections? Can we show how specific types of dinosaurs might have been erroneously depicted? In that case, the depiction would have to be close enough for an identification to be made.
In this article and shall we say “collection” I intend to show once again through the arts of ancient peoples that man and dinosaur lived together within the last 5,000 years—but only to the fair and open minded.
The s8intcom Blogger

And the stones are real. Just because certain people want their memories stays the same , doesn't mean that they are right. People are very deceiving; you cannot trust. Like we have GMO foods product on our shelves that claims to be safe, but is it? People is going to make their own truth books, and which it is filled with lies.

 

[Cycel]

This is the site that it originate from, but there are many others. Ancient Artifacts that Challenge Modern Archaeological Thinking

This is a conspiracy theorist's delight, this website. It's complete with dinosaurs cohabiting with people and space aliens helping to build the pyramids, etc. There is not much enlightenment going on; just a lot of nonsense. I can't take you seriously anymore. It's as if you are willing to believe anything, so long as it supports your leading premise. You don't seem to care that your sources are not credible.

Wait a minute. Do I need to take this back? Are you admitting this is poor evidence?

 

[4enlightment]

This is a conspiracy theorist's delight, this website. It's complete with dinosaurs cohabiting with people and space aliens helping to build the pyramids, etc. There is not much enlightenment going on; just a lot of nonsense. I can't take you seriously anymore. It's as if you are willing to believe anything, so long as it supports your leading premise. You don't seem to care that your sources are not credible.

Wait a minute. Do I need to take this back? Are you admitting this is poor evidence?

I'm trying to show you that even the secular ones believes that these evidences are true, not just in the Young earth creationist arena. And so you should better hunt them down and destroy them for back-stabbing your kind in the back.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

The Cambrian period ended 485 million years ago. Most of our fossils come from before 485 million years ago??? I believe this statement you led with is false.


I think you are trying to sound as if you know what you are talking about, but you are coming across garbled. Would you mind restating?

I see you apparently didn't read #378 over 12 hours ago which would have helped you make the right connection. A missed word here and there shouldn't upset you so if you kept up. I won't make the mistake of answering more bait and switch replies. So, the thing to do is simply post statements and not bother arguing about them. That's what the evolutionists like to do.

I will add to the confusion of evolutionists. A creation science tenet is almost all the "geologic column" represents the year of the flood of Genesis 7-8. Of course there are local floods in many places that added strata, but don't compete with the thousands of vertical feet of sedimentation demonstrating world-wide atastrophic destruction. The sedimentary deposits hold a fossil record that supports that. All your millions of years are compressed into a year about 4,500 years ago. I've already explained that. Creation science doesn't start off with a major bias, but the facts always confirm the Genesis account. It's like a person is innocent until proven guilty. A court can't sentence us on the basis of belief of guilt without a jury finding guilt. An honest observation of empirical data, ignoring artist conceptions so popular with evolutionists, results in logical conclusions. It ought not be unreasonable for us to point out that true origins science supports the Genesis account while both sides should point out none of it can be proven empirically yet since none of it is observable today, nor can be replicated.

Ditch the posters, the drawings, and the like that are used to invent intermediate fossils. They exist only in the imagination of people in open rebellion against honesty, determined to discredit the Bible.

 

[Timeline]

The making of a planet isn't like that of a star like our sun. The sun required a fusion startup process, while the earth hada much different building process. The "heavens" concept in Gen 1:1 is being touted in modern terms as a vast cloud of matter that collects into many planetary bodies. Dr. Jason Lisle, Director of Research at ICR.org, specializing in physics, astronomy, astrophysics, and apologetics can better explain those concepts. If you are ever passing through Dallas TX on vacation try to visit their office, labs and staff about 5 miles NW of Dallas Love Field Airport for an exciting experience.

There is not yet found a shred of evidence of life in the stratigraphic "column" named Precambrian/Archean, what existed of earth's surface before the Precambrian/Proterozoic supposedly starting off with bacteria, algae, etc. Of the Cambrian period and it's explosion of life forms we recognize today comes an obvious witness of a sudden appearance of wide variety or plants and animals that doesn't require believing the Bible to conclude evolution didn't have the supposed long millions of years to evolve into more complex forms in defiance of the second law of thermodynamics. The earliest life forms possessed the maximum potential of cellular complexity, entropy (usable energy only decreases, while unusable energy always increases) has been winding life on earth down from Zero Entropy. That helps explain why nature can't sustain all life forms indefinitely, and explains why organisms don't get more complex.

Taking such things together there is no scientific evidence for the Gap Theory. It was invented as a reaction of Bible scholars to the emerging threat of the evolution theory, which was and still is technically an hypothesis, not achieving theory status, and certainly not inspiring a new law of nature. The reason is that concept can't be observed, nor can it be repeated for observation like with real science investigation. We can't reenact creation either. But common sense good science fairly interpreting what data we do have leads more intelligently to elaborate design and high order rather than randomness and accident of nature.

The ill-conceived Gap Theory has it that an original earth long before Genesis 1 was the domain of Satan, the fallen "Lucifer" who before that time was kicked out of Heaven, who ruled "pre-Adamites" on earth, an earlier model of humanity. That was the time when dinosaurs were contemporary with those "people". It became so wicked that the earth had to be destroyed in a great flood, whatever light they had snuffed out. That left Satan entombed in the wet darkness. The fossil record disproves all that. The dispute of CvE is mainly over dates fossils formed. There is no fossil evidence supporting life at all before the oldest known geologic period. There are a few references in the Bible to a flood some say was that most ancient one before the flood of Noah's time. But the context of those passages clearly indicates the destruction was that described in Gen 7-8. It is quite absurd that such a destruction before Gen 1:1 could have any meaning for man in Bible times or today. The one Noah survived was suffient for instruction and warning for man to repent and remain accountable to God.

I would like fellow scientists to know that this is not a "Christian" sentiment. It is this man's personal belief, and I'd hope that no one would categorize all Christians in a general sweep as though a common teaching amongst us.

I don't mind that their faith precludes reasonable Bible study and common sense and knowledge of that which they argue against, because their faith is crucial for the more important thing, in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ the Son of God. So what if that faith causes them to throw out the scriptural "day = 1000 years" principal? Or prevents knowing the old earth through geology and archaeology. A lack of comprehension of these things isn't all that important I don't think. It might be important to their faith, or else their world might not withstand being rocked with knowing in their flesh that millions of years of gone by in this old world as "a day of creation" to God.
For the rest of us, the majority of Christians, we understand that millions of years have elapsed, that God created each of the species in His way, and that discoveries in science don't conflict with scriptures not one whit.
I love science. I love the Bible. I know that a day in Genesis is thousands and thousands of years, just as it is in other parts of the Bible consistently. It's really pretty simple and fun to know the discoveries in the strata and fossils. I know one day I'll be back there millions of years ago seeing it all happens until that meteor hit and wiped them all out. It is all academic. It is all fine with scriptures. It is all fine with me
Peace!

Haha, I am attacked from both directions in 378 and 379! Excellent!

I do not really care what science has to say about the existence of earth. I have no intention of trying to fit science into the Bible. After all, science is not truth, but only understanding, which does not mean that it is accurate. I am concerned about what the Bible says and I am just telling y'all that time, as we understand it, did not start until the first day. And that the Bible clearly states that the earth was here before the first day. So, I will stick to the literal 6 days of creation, with the seventh reserved for rest - from which we get our 7 day week. I will also, at this time, stick to my understanding that time was not measured (for us to comprehend) before our first day. So, while I do not (and can not) insist that God has had previous earth cycles (if you will), I do accept it as a possibility. This does not effect my faith. God is in control and did create everything in the heavens and earth.

 

[4enlightment]

Haha, I am attacked from both directions in 378 and 379! Excellent!

I do not really care what science has to say about the existence of earth. I have no intention of trying to fit science into the Bible. After all, science is not truth, but only understanding, which does not mean that it is accurate. I am concerned about what the Bible says and I am just telling y'all that time, as we understand it, did not start until the first day. And that the Bible clearly states that the earth was here before the first day. So, I will stick to the literal 6 days of creation, with the seventh reserved for rest - from which we get our 7 day week. I will also, at this time, stick to my understanding that time was not measured (for us to comprehend) before our first day. So, while I do not (and can not) insist that God has had previous earth cycles (if you will), I do accept it as a possibility. This does not effect my faith. God is in control and did create everything in the heavens and earth.

God sort of Had given a vision to Moses how it were in the beginning. It was a six days creation and which God narrated each process of each day. Some people is trying to use logic, but they can't. If that were the case, then it had taken thirty days or thirty years for Jesus to have had resurrected from the grave. When someone dies their blood thickens especially the smaller vessels in the brain. When they are revived, they'll have a bunch of clots floating all through the body. And so they will have to goes through a rehabilitation process to get back the use of their bodily functions, and even the brain as well. But that is only if they use logic, but God is showing us that it is not necessary true with Him. And so if people use logic, then there is another gap theory between the time of Jesus' death and Him coming out of the grave. So maybe Mary was visiting His tomb for thirty days or more, giving Jesus physical therapy until He is ready to face the public. So now we had rewritten the written word of God in our thoughts by using someones else understanding.

 

[Cycel]

I'm trying to show you that even the secular ones believes that these evidences are true, not just in the Young earth creationist arena. And so you should better hunt them down and destroy them for back-stabbing your kind in the back.

So you do believe these child-like clay models of dinosaurs are legitimate copies of the real McCoy witnessed by Incas or Aztecs? If you go to Acámbaro figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia you will learn that these too, like the Ica stones, were made by local farmers a few decades ago.

Your intent was to locate a secular, not a religious source, that also was interested in the figurines, but all you turned up was a conspiracy theorist's haven. Did you notice they claimed to have found, among other things, a 500,000 year old spark plug? Yes, apparently highly technical civilizations once thrived on earth before modern humans fully evolved (please note that secularists don't pay any attention to nonsense like this). 4Enlightenment, you did not find a secular website. You found a conspiracy theorist fan site. Do you not recognize the difference?

I found the truth easily enough. Why didn't you? I think the explanation is you are not trying to uncover weaknesses in your understanding, you are trying to prop them up.

 

[JackH]

I do not really care what science has to say about the existence of earth.

Surprise, surprise.

Do you believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God? If so, what Bible? The King James Version?

 

[JackH]

It ought not be unreasonable for us to point out that true origins science supports the Genesis account

True origins science supports the Genesis account, but not yours, as in a world that is around 6,000 years old.

Young Earth Creationism is not a science. If it was, it would be taught as a science in public schools.

The vast majority of scientists and scientific organizations support evolution and an old earth.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Good post, not only pleasure of taste, what about Gods power in these fruits at the time, if that tree bestowed knowledge of good and evil, what did the other fruit do? We don't know...

Well the other significant tree was the Tree of Life. I assume its fruit would allow the eater to live forever given certain statements throughout the Bible in reference to it. Also note that in God's Kingdom will be many trees of life growing. And of course its not the Tree of Life itself that is important, but rather God that is important as he owns, created, and keeps the way to the tree of life and has power to give access to it to whom he pleases.