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C
Re: TriUnity
1st - I would like to say that Christianity is Monotheistic. Any other answer would contradict Christ quoting the Shema in His New Testament.
Next to go on to put the reason & answer for why I posted the above quoted post. Remembering that there were no divisions of the Scripture with verse & chpt #s nor punctuations ...
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy name for Thy lovingkindness and for Thy truth: for Thou hast magnified Thy Word above all Thy Name.
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. {Jesus didn't correct Thomas}
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and HE will dwell with them, and they shall be HIS people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6And He said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
As HE was from before the foundations of the earth - He shall be again - as we see in Revelation 21. There will be no need for the Three in One to be or act distinct or separate from each other but shall appear and be undivided and eternal.
The Three shall be one God and be "all in all" after the millenial reign and the coming of the New Jerusalem, where all residents are glorified. Where they [His Bride] all are glorified [like Him], there will be no need for the Three in One to perform any separate function.
From Genesis on we see this. HE is ONE GOD. To say that we are not Monotheists is to break with all 'that is written' and we will never "provoke unto jealousy" any that He "foreknew" would come to Him as their God & Messiah.
That is why I do not stand with those preachers that said that we are not Monotheists - and feel they need to go back and study & exegete Isaiah 9:6 again - without any of their Reformed theology bias where some have 'boasted against the natural branches' rather than provoke them unto jealousy. Paul was willing to be damned so that they would be saved. But those whom He Foreknew, will be and Paul said as much as well, but we will still be held responsible for how we represented & presented The Messiah/Christ to the world. God our Savior!
1st - I would like to say that Christianity is Monotheistic. Any other answer would contradict Christ quoting the Shema in His New Testament.
Next to go on to put the reason & answer for why I posted the above quoted post. Remembering that there were no divisions of the Scripture with verse & chpt #s nor punctuations ...
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy name for Thy lovingkindness and for Thy truth: for Thou hast magnified Thy Word above all Thy Name.
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. {Jesus didn't correct Thomas}
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and HE will dwell with them, and they shall be HIS people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6And He said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
As HE was from before the foundations of the earth - He shall be again - as we see in Revelation 21. There will be no need for the Three in One to be or act distinct or separate from each other but shall appear and be undivided and eternal.
The Three shall be one God and be "all in all" after the millenial reign and the coming of the New Jerusalem, where all residents are glorified. Where they [His Bride] all are glorified [like Him], there will be no need for the Three in One to perform any separate function.
From Genesis on we see this. HE is ONE GOD. To say that we are not Monotheists is to break with all 'that is written' and we will never "provoke unto jealousy" any that He "foreknew" would come to Him as their God & Messiah.
That is why I do not stand with those preachers that said that we are not Monotheists - and feel they need to go back and study & exegete Isaiah 9:6 again - without any of their Reformed theology bias where some have 'boasted against the natural branches' rather than provoke them unto jealousy. Paul was willing to be damned so that they would be saved. But those whom He Foreknew, will be and Paul said as much as well, but we will still be held responsible for how we represented & presented The Messiah/Christ to the world. God our Savior!
Re: TriUnity
Think AGAIN.
The primary function of the FATHER within the GODhead is to WILL what HE wants done.
The primary function of the SON within the GODhead is to DO the WILL of the FATHER.
The primary function of the HOLY SPIRIT within the GODhead is to enable us to do the WILL of the FATHER, starting with genuinely BELIEVING and LOVING GOD.
Those primary functions do not cease or change in the Kingdom.
Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Think AGAIN.
The primary function of the FATHER within the GODhead is to WILL what HE wants done.
The primary function of the SON within the GODhead is to DO the WILL of the FATHER.
The primary function of the HOLY SPIRIT within the GODhead is to enable us to do the WILL of the FATHER, starting with genuinely BELIEVING and LOVING GOD.
Those primary functions do not cease or change in the Kingdom.
Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
C
Re: TriUnity
So, you don't see what happens in Revelation 21.
I'm sorry, but I have to say that you are not seeing what happens at the completion of all things.
Here I stand! The Shema again! The compound unity does not cease to exist - but they need not be separate as in Christ with a physical body and the Holy Spirit needing to go out to reach unbelievers, etc. after the completion of all things.
HE is One - the Triune Nature of The Godhead will exist for all of eternity ... but you are reading my post and mis-reading it at the same time.
Maybe you could re-read what I wrote again now that we've established that I have never renounced the "Triune Nature of The Godhead / The Three in One GOD" will exist eternally .... but please read those verses from Rev 21:1-7 and see if you believe that this GOD/Who is the Alpha and Omega that is speaking is subservient.
Or was HE just subservient only while in a fleshly body [and glorified body] .... until Rev 21.
Do you believe The Word of GOD - the GOD that manifested to Moses - was subservient to another entity called by another name through-out the O.T.? What is "the son's" name in the O.T.? What is "the son's" name in Rev 21?
I've done more than just 'think again' on this one most major doctrine of the His Body = "WHO IS GOD".
This doctrine of who GOD is, Must start with Genesis and be taken from every word, every sentence, of every book in the entire Bible and not from 'church fathers' At All -- but by The Word of GOD Himself Only.
So, you don't see what happens in Revelation 21.
I'm sorry, but I have to say that you are not seeing what happens at the completion of all things.
Here I stand! The Shema again! The compound unity does not cease to exist - but they need not be separate as in Christ with a physical body and the Holy Spirit needing to go out to reach unbelievers, etc. after the completion of all things.
HE is One - the Triune Nature of The Godhead will exist for all of eternity ... but you are reading my post and mis-reading it at the same time.
Maybe you could re-read what I wrote again now that we've established that I have never renounced the "Triune Nature of The Godhead / The Three in One GOD" will exist eternally .... but please read those verses from Rev 21:1-7 and see if you believe that this GOD/Who is the Alpha and Omega that is speaking is subservient.
Or was HE just subservient only while in a fleshly body [and glorified body] .... until Rev 21.
Do you believe The Word of GOD - the GOD that manifested to Moses - was subservient to another entity called by another name through-out the O.T.? What is "the son's" name in the O.T.? What is "the son's" name in Rev 21?
I've done more than just 'think again' on this one most major doctrine of the His Body = "WHO IS GOD".
This doctrine of who GOD is, Must start with Genesis and be taken from every word, every sentence, of every book in the entire Bible and not from 'church fathers' At All -- but by The Word of GOD Himself Only.
J
So, I suppose the Holy Spirit is not God, because He is in believers all over the world.
Since you, the creature, can only be one place at a time, this must also be true of the Creator, God? (Sounds familiar, like some creatures I've known that hang out at the Kingdom Hall.)
2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Since you, the creature, can only be one place at a time, this must also be true of the Creator, God? (Sounds familiar, like some creatures I've known that hang out at the Kingdom Hall.)
2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
MY HOW YOU LIMIT GOD TO THE PHYSICAL REALM OF HUMANS.
Luke 1:37 (NIV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] For nothing is impossible with God."
But then you do not even understand what all a Human Being is.
We are created in the image of GOD, and so are YOU.
You are not Eternally HOLY, but GOD is.
You are not All Knowing, but GOD is.
You are not All Powerful, but GOD is.
You are not Omnipresent, but GOD is.
You are not Sinless, but GOD is.
You are not Perfect, but GOD is.
You are not the Creator, but GOD is.
You are not perfectly JUST, but GOD is.
You are not the Author of the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD, but GOD is.
You cannot understand all Languages, but GOD can.
You cannot Hear all prayers going on at the same time in this world, but GOD can.
You cannot see the heart motives of men, but GOD can.
You cannot raise people from the Dead, but GOD can.
You cannot miraculously answer the silent prayers of others, but GOD can.
etc.
etc.
etc.
SO TELL ME, HOW ARE YOU ANYTHING LIKE GOD OR CREATED IN HIS IMAGE ? ? ?
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely;
and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete,
without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
YOU YOURSELF WERE CREATED A TRIUNE BEING IN THE IMAGE OF GOD.
You are made up of THREE parts, each with a different function within
your entire being. Yet you remain only ONE human being; and
not three human beings. SO THREE CAN BE ONE BEING, and you
yourself are proof of it. So why is it so hard for you to understand that
GOD IS MADE UP OF THREE PERSONAGES, YET IS ONLY ONE GOD?
COME and Repent, Receive the TRUE TRIUNE GOD as LORD (which means Master).
HE is the ONLY GOD that Exists.
John 14:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Acts 5:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the proceeds from the field?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Wasn’t it yours while you possessed it? And after it was sold, wasn’t it at your disposal? Why is it that you planned this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God!”
2 John 1:9-11 (NKJV) [SUP]9 [/SUP] Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
1 John 2:23 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
Colossians 1:16-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible {NOT almost everything, therefore that includes the body HE indwelled in the womb of Mary.}, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church {Therefore Jesus is the creator.};
He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,
Romans 1:20-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made {Jesus is the creator.}. As a result, people are without excuse.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
I repeat:
1 John 2:23 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
Deuteronomy 6:4 is not a philosophical ruminiation on the inner essence of God. The Shema is a statement about fidelity and sole devotion to Yahweh and no other gods, as the surrounding context makes clear (eg 6:5, 6:14). The NRSV probably captures the meaning best:
Hear, O Israel: The Yahweh is our God, Yahweh alone. (see use of "ehad" is SoS 6:8-9, Zech 14:9)
Deuteronomy 6:4 is not a statement regarding the triunity or non-triunity of Yahweh, and to read that back into the text is anachronistic. It neither proves nor disproves nor has anything to do with Trinitarianism since Trinitarians worship Yahweh alone.
Hear, O Israel: The Yahweh is our God, Yahweh alone. (see use of "ehad" is SoS 6:8-9, Zech 14:9)
Deuteronomy 6:4 is not a statement regarding the triunity or non-triunity of Yahweh, and to read that back into the text is anachronistic. It neither proves nor disproves nor has anything to do with Trinitarianism since Trinitarians worship Yahweh alone.
Re: TriUnity
This is the quote of yours that I responded to and disagree with:
"As HE was from before the foundations of the earth - He shall be again - as we see in Revelation 21. There will be no need for the Three in One to be or act distinct or separate from each other but shall appear and be undivided and eternal."
Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
Hebrews 13:8-9 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.
Your theory does not square with what the Scriptures say.
This is the quote of yours that I responded to and disagree with:
"As HE was from before the foundations of the earth - He shall be again - as we see in Revelation 21. There will be no need for the Three in One to be or act distinct or separate from each other but shall appear and be undivided and eternal."
Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
Hebrews 13:8-9 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.
Your theory does not square with what the Scriptures say.
J
When young, I had a teacher who said the Trinity cannot be understood. After class, I had a discussion with this teacher, as I didn't find the Trinity so inexplicable, for the very reason of God's omnipresence, for Jesus Christ in the flesh being in the fullness of the Holy Spirit, God in man. I've since seen some nuances of mysterious quality, but, to this day, have yet to understand how one God, who we accept can pervade His creation by His Spirit, can even be characterized, as if, needing to be just one physical entity! Not seeing the wonder of the Trinity and the Holy Spirit, this power of God, is the real mystery.
K
This is the way it was taught to me, and how i refer the trinity to others.
Water, ice, steam....All made up of the same elements, but in different forms.
The Holy Trinity is all mad up of the same God head, but in different forms.
The Holy Father, the Son in the flesh, and the Helper in the Spirit.
Just like we all believers have our different qualities and gifts, but make up one church body.
Different members of one spiritual body.
Water, ice, steam....All made up of the same elements, but in different forms.
The Holy Trinity is all mad up of the same God head, but in different forms.
The Holy Father, the Son in the flesh, and the Helper in the Spirit.
Just like we all believers have our different qualities and gifts, but make up one church body.
Different members of one spiritual body.
Mortals have always had a problem fathoming an Eternal, Holy, All Powerful, Ominpresent GOD. We tend to try to put HIM in a box of various kinds, wrongly thinking that because GOD is a BEING, HE most have a defined shape within a certain space. WRONG! GOD is an Eternal Omnipresent Spirit, and HE cannot be put in any kind of BOX, including one called TIME. HE is thee I AM, Omnipresent in every second of TIME as we know it all at the same time. HE is NOT finite, HE is INFINITE!
Then again, that is not entirely true:
John 14:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip?
The one who has seen Me has seen the Father.
How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 10:30 (NKJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and My Father are one." {NOTICE: the word "My" is NOT in the original language manuscript.}
2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Colossians 1:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,
Colossians 2:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
Are they separate personages? YES.
Are they at the same time still ONE? YES.
Matthew 19:26 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But Jesus looked at them and said,
“With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
John 14:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip?
The one who has seen Me has seen the Father.
How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 10:30 (NKJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and My Father are one." {NOTICE: the word "My" is NOT in the original language manuscript.}
2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Colossians 1:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,
Colossians 2:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
Are they separate personages? YES.
Are they at the same time still ONE? YES.
Matthew 19:26 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But Jesus looked at them and said,
“With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”