The Dead-What Happens When You Die

[Truth2010]

I have come to notice that ALOT of Christians have this belief that as soon as you die, you go to where you need to go (heaven or hell). When I have attended funerals, the preacher always says "they are in a better place.." or "they have crossed over". But the Bible speaks differently in regards to the dead. The Bible teaches that the dead know nothing and are still in the graves. No one goes to hell or heaven until judgement day. Tell me your thoughts on this and I will provide scriptures to back this up. Thanks

 

[Derek]

Thats kinda what I thought about it too. I dont feel like i have solid scripture to back it up so I stay on the undecided side of the argument but there is things in Daniel and Revelation that suggest we go to a place sort of like Abrahams bossom or paradise untill God establishes heaven on earth. Im not sure but its a good question.

 

[MahogonySnail]

You might be thinking of this verse:

Here is an example of a verse that is used to defend soul sleep:
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
The context shows that this verse is not speaking about soul sleep, just as "they have no more reward" is not denying the resurrection of the dead. To show that the author of Ecclesiastes did not believe in soul sleep, one can cite the following verse from the same book:
Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.
That is, the soul has an existence independent of the body, and returns to God at death, etc.

http://web.globalserve.net/~bumblebee/ecclesia/soulslep.htm

and theres a whole stack of other verses on that website.



I think the view that the soul goes to be with God after death comes from Judaism and is what Jesus and Jesus believed if u consider his parables about Lazarus and Abrahams bosom where Lazarus died went straight to heaven and the rich man went straight to hell. This belief naturally transferred into christianity as the first christians were Jews etc.

There is also the personal accounts of people who have near death experiences or even christians who have actually died and been sent back by God. I think they find themselves very much aware and awake on the other side. I've got the book 90 minutes in heaven by a pastor , Piper I think, who had that experience after dying he spent 90 minutes in heaven. This is good evidence to me that we are fully conscious after death.

 

[Truth2010]

You might be thinking of this verse:

Here is an example of a verse that is used to defend soul sleep:
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
The context shows that this verse is not speaking about soul sleep, just as "they have no more reward" is not denying the resurrection of the dead. To show that the author of Ecclesiastes did not believe in soul sleep, one can cite the following verse from the same book:
Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.
That is, the soul has an existence independent of the body, and returns to God at death, etc.

http://web.globalserve.net/~bumblebee/ecclesia/soulslep.htm

and theres a whole stack of other verses on that website.



I think the view that the soul goes to be with God after death comes from Judaism and is what Jesus and Jesus believed if u consider his parables about Lazarus and Abrahams bosom where Lazarus died went straight to heaven and the rich man went straight to hell. This belief naturally transferred into christianity as the first christians were Jews etc.

There is also the personal accounts of people who have near death experiences or even christians who have actually died and been sent back by God. I think they find themselves very much aware and awake on the other side. I've got the book 90 minutes in heaven by a pastor , Piper I think, who had that experience after dying he spent 90 minutes in heaven. This is good evidence to me that we are fully conscious after death.

I understand but you see, there is more than just that verse that shows different. That the dead are actually dead and no one goes to Heaven or to Hell yet.. This is where that doctrine does not make sense... Why is there a judgement if we already go to where we need to go when we die?

The scriptures that you gave where it says that the spirit shall return to God who gave it, in the Greek, the word spirit actually means "breath"(breath of life). So when we die, our life (breath) goes back to God and our bodies perish in the ground. This verse is not saying that our souls go back to heaven, but just the life that God gave us. We are not aware of anything when we die.. "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Eccles 9:10.. See here, this scriptures says we have no knowledge, no wisdom, no nothing when we die..

What is a soul? According to the Bible, all a soul is is a living being.. the body + the breath of life from God=the soul. So when we die, our breath goes back to God, and our bodies perish in grave therefore causing us to no longer exist until Christ wakes us up...If that makes sense. I can provide a slew of scriptures showing that.

Also see this, "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of ****ation." John 5:28-29. Jesus says here that the dead will rise when they hear His voice...they can't already be with Him if He has to call them from the grave. I will add more after your response.

 

[Truth2010]

Also Mahagony, you said that we are aware when we die, but according to that scripture that I provided in the above post, says that we are NOT aware at all...no wisdom, no knowledge, no device

 

[thefightinglamb]

Hmmm...I wonder if anyone would suggest that people and heaven can see and speak with those in hell from the Lazarus story...but, personally contemplating on it right now, I believe that the Lazarus story was a parable and also gives some justification for thinking that fiction is not just evil or lies, as I have sometimes felt...

Does anyone actually believe that moment happened? WHy wouldn't the chasm have prevented even speech/sight from crossing?

I think Jesus was trying to show the differences between earthy heaven and earthly hell from the true heaven and the true heaven, and trying to make his hearers choose between them.

I do believe that we enter some type of sleep--but in a sense that sleep will appear at the end of time to hae been nothing--because, time ceases to exist for us when we die--we no longer change or experience this world--so for the dead its straight to the last days and judgment (thats what they experience next), for us they are sleeping and we actively live our time here (time is different with God)...it is the same if you see...how could they experience time anymore? They do not watch 'over' us as some would suppose saints do.


Peace, seek God's heaven
tony

 

[thefightinglamb]

'people in heaven" not "people and heaven"

 

[Baptistrw]

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

 

[Truth2010]

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Remember, the Bible says that we have to RIGHTLY divide the scriptures...We know nothing when we die.

 

[Baptistrw]

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
2 Cor 5:5-9 (KJV)

 

[Truth2010]

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
2 Cor 5:5-9 (KJV)

Now we have to read this very carefully... this verse is not saying that when we are absent from the body, that we are present with the Lord. Reread it... It is saying that we long to be out of this body and to dwell with God in heaven...We are SURE that when we are in our bodies, that we are absent from the LORD... Read verse 8.. it says we are confident, I say, and willing RATHER to be absent from the body and to be present with Lord. You see that? It says we RATHER be with God than to be captive in our bodies because our bodies are burdensom..Heaven is life.. this life is death.. Does that make sense? Read it in the greek.. It is not saying what you are claiming it says.

 

[Baptistrw]

Now we have to read this very carefully... this verse is not saying that when we are absent from the body, that we are present with the Lord. Reread it... It is saying that we long to be out of this body and to dwell with God in heaven...We are SURE that when we are in our bodies, that we are absent from the LORD... Read verse 8.. it says we are confident, I say, and willing RATHER to be absent from the body and to be present with Lord. You see that? It says we RATHER be with God than to be captive in our bodies because our bodies are burdensom..Heaven is life.. this life is death.. Does that make sense? Read it in the greek.. It is not saying what you are claiming it says.

If we aren't present with the Lord when we are absent from our bodies, why would we want to be absent from our bodies? Your logic makes no sense. Neither does your post.

 

[Truth2010]

If we aren't present with the Lord when we are absent from our bodies, why would we want to be absent from our bodies? Your logic makes no sense. Neither does your post.

LOL.. Because like the Bible says... pple will not endure SOUND doctrine.. and you are one of those pple. It is very clear and simple.. but because you are more loyal to TRADITION, you are willing to refute the truth, therefore refuting GOD.

Do some research from the beginning of the Bible to the very end of it..Your doctrine proves false and is not Biblical. Not only does that falsehood not make any sense, it is completely AGAINST what the Bible says.. the Bible says, the dead know nothing.. YOU say, the dead are aware..The Bible say that the dead will rise when they hear God's voice, some unto death and some unto life... but YOU say that we are already with the Lord... Hmmm...

 

[Baptistrw]

LOL.. Because like the Bible says... pple will not endure SOUND doctrine.. and you are one of those pple. It is very clear and simple.. but because you are more loyal to TRADITION, you are willing to refute the truth, therefore refuting GOD.

Do some research from the beginning of the Bible to the very end of it..Your doctrine proves false and is not Biblical. Not only does that falsehood not make any sense, it is completely AGAINST what the Bible says.. the Bible says, the dead know nothing.. YOU say, the dead are aware..The Bible say that the dead will rise when they hear God's voice, some unto death and some unto life... but YOU say that we are already with the Lord... Hmmm...

I never said the dead were aware, all I said was to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The story of the rich man and Lazarus (it is NOT a parable as some say, Jesus never used names in parables) proves this. Quit looking for reasons to disagree kiddo.

 

[Stand_Up_4_God]

http://www.gotquestions.org/what-happens-death.html

Question: "What happens after death?"

Answer: Within the Christian faith, there is a significant amount of confusion in regards to what happens after death. Some hold that after death, everyone "sleeps" until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to Heaven or Hell. Others believe that immediately after the moment of death, people are instantly judged and send to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a "temporary" Heaven or Hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. So, what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?

First, for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death, believers’ souls/spirits are taken to Heaven, because their sins were forgiven from having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16,18,36). For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of this resurrection? It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave "sleeping." At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified and perfected, and then reunited with the soul-spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the inhabitance of believers for eternity, in the New Heavens and New Earth (Revelation chapters 21-22).

Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, after death means everlasting punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the Great White Throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to Hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, "I am in agony in this fire" (Luke 16:24).

Therefore, after death, for both believers and unbelievers, a person resides in a "temporary" Heaven or Hell. After this temporary realm, at their final resurrection, peoples’ eternal destiny will not change. The precise "location" of that eternal destiny is what changes. After death, believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the New Heavens and New Earth (Revelation 21:1). After death, unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people - based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).

 

[Slepsog4]

The idea that the dead go immediately to heaven or hell is not true because it bypasses the bodily resurrection.

The idea that the dead are merely asleep in the grave is not true because it doesn't deal with other pertinent passages.

There is a third alternative. The intermediate state of the dead. See the link it includes a chart and an article:

http://www.bible.ca/su-hades.htm

 

[Baptistrw]

The idea that the dead go immediately to heaven or hell is not true because it bypasses the bodily resurrection.

The idea that the dead are merely asleep in the grave is not true because it doesn't deal with other pertinent passages.

There is a third alternative. The intermediate state of the dead. See the link it includes a chart and an article:

http://www.bible.ca/su-hades.htm

Jesus told the thief on the cross "Today you'll be with me in paradise.." Not after the resurrection, or in several hundred years.

 

[Slepsog4]

Paradise is not heaven.

Rather it is part of Hades. See Acts 2:24-32 and Luke 16:19-31

Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after his resurrection.

 

[Stand_Up_4_God]

Might as well not argue with him Baptist, you'll never win. I've noticed no matter what anyone says, he disagrees with EVERYTHING and that no one is right according to him. Some people are set in their ways and beliefs, just let them stay that way, and pray for them, that God opens their eyes and heart. Cause anyone who argues and disagrees with the Bible, the TRUE and ONLY word of God, they need prayer, they want to basically call it a lie. No disrespect intended at all towards him, and I"m not just saying this about him, but many that are the same way. So I'm not "calling him out" or "attacking" him or whatever, I'm speaking of many different people that are the same way. Nor am I saying that he's calling God's word a lie, but some do, just to make that clear. We all have our own beliefs and all, just pray is all we can do. Also, if someone's spirit/soul doesn't go straight to heaven, then how can Jesus be seated on the right hand side of God the Father? If the soul/spirit doesn't to stright to heaven, then tell me this, are you saying God's word is a lie? Because if the soul/spirit didn't go straight to heaven, then Jesus would still be among the dead. Which we KNOW isn't the case, for He lives within us. In our heart, spirit, and soul. He in I and I in Him. remember 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Anyways, peace, and God bless.

 

[Stand_Up_4_God]

Oh also just so everyone knows, I looked this up on a website, where you can translate greek, hebrew, etc. words to English and here's something I found. Paradise:NOUN 1. any place of complete bliss and delight and peace;
[syn: Eden, paradise, nirvana, heaven, promised land, Shangri-la]

2. (Christianity) the abode of righteous souls after death;