Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

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kennethcadwell

Guest
the only people that did that were the JW's, and they have since changed their stance, since they lost alot of people because people realised more than 14400 have had to have already been saved, so they would have no hope.

Well that is not exactly true, for since I have been on here I have ran across a couple on here who are not JW's that believe that way. That the 144,000 are the only amount total saved, and that are not just Jews.
I have also ran across a few on the street that feel this way.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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I think that clearing things up would be helpful, for a more fruitful conversation.

To the OP: I do not believe in so called "replacement theology", whatever it is, for one simple reason. If you have ever truly loved someone, you would know that they cannot be replaced... ever. I think a lot of people posting here are being simply misunderstood. I dont think anybody is saying that Jews got replaced. A chunk of them fell off, and Gentile believers were joined to the precious remnant and they are now together in Jesus. But this is nothing new, majority of the physical Jews were backsliding and they were killing the saints among them. The apostles were Jewish, right? He will gather the lost sheep again. HOW precisely will He do it seems to bring disagreement. Well, guess what? None of us can prove they are right. I will love whom Jesus loves and hate what He hates. My signature says do not curse the deaf. Majority of physical Jews are currently deaf to the Gospel. We need to draw them with love.

I believe Word of God is BOTH spiritual and literal, true on all levels, and God is able to bring it to fulfillment even contrary to our logic. The controversy on this thread is reminding me of i.e. Calvinism vs Arminianism, when both sides are right and both are wrong by excluding the other: God did preordinate us and also we do have free will. And He can make a stone that He cant lift, too. It only surpasses our scope of logic.

I dont know everything and I allow the possibility that someone with opposite opinion might be right and I be wrong on something. I do not deny various physical manifestations from the prophecy during the end times. We just dont know how exactly it will come to pass, until it comes to pass... which is exactly the purpose, to know it then. Which we will, because we read all these Scriptures now and we are warned against the antichrist and all that :) Also, I am strongly inclined in spirit to understand many passages spiritually. Calling me names cannot change this... please respect me and bless my studying instead. I dont even know what most of the words I was called meant, I had to look up on Google. :D
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Well that is not exactly true, for since I have been on here I have ran across a couple on here who are not JW's that believe that way. That the 144,000 are the only amount total saved, and that are not just Jews.
I have also ran across a few on the street that feel this way.
I stand corrected again. I have never heard anyone else say this, but evidently they do. Thanks for the info, good to have :)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I would say that Satan "struck Christ's heel" through his crucifixion BUT He rose from the dead and that is what spoiled principalities and powers and triumphed over them - they [principalities and powers] did not believe he would rise or else they wouldn't have had him crucified. [HaHa - LOOK - you couldn't keep me down! and NOW I am IN every believer] Satan will be CRUSHED when he is cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. I see it this way because Corinthians says that he is the "god of this world" and if he is crushed NOW then he couldn't be the "god of this world".

Is that what you see? Of course, my understanding could be off . .
revisiting this...it exemplifies the problems we can have by separating Christ's offices into neat packages. Sometimes it's safer to take the whole'Christ' ...His Incarnation, Obedience, Death, Burial, Resurrection, Ascension, and present Session at the right hand of the Father as a whole.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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I think that clearing things up would be helpful, for a more fruitful conversation.

To the OP: I do not believe in so called "replacement theology", whatever it is, for one simple reason. If you have ever truly loved someone, you would know that they cannot be replaced... ever. I think a lot of people posting here are being simply misunderstood. I dont think anybody is saying that Jews got replaced. A chunk of them fell off, and Gentile believers were joined to the precious remnant and they are now together in Jesus. But this is nothing new, majority of the physical Jews were backsliding and they were killing the saints among them. The apostles were Jewish, right? He will gather the lost sheep again. HOW precisely will He do it seems to bring disagreement. Well, guess what? None of us can prove they are right. I will love whom Jesus loves and hate what He hates. My signature says do not curse the deaf. Majority of physical Jews are currently deaf to the Gospel. We need to draw them with love.

I believe Word of God is BOTH spiritual and literal, true on all levels, and God is able to bring it to fulfillment even contrary to our logic. The controversy on this thread is reminding me of i.e. Calvinism vs Arminianism, when both sides are right and both are wrong by excluding the other: God did preordinate us and also we do have free will. And He can make a stone that He cant lift, too. It only surpasses our scope of logic.

I dont know everything and I allow the possibility that someone with opposite opinion might be right and I be wrong on something. I do not deny various physical manifestations from the prophecy during the end times. We just dont know how exactly it will come to pass, until it comes to pass... which is exactly the purpose, to know it then. Which we will, because we read all these Scriptures now and we are warned against the antichrist and all that :) Also, I am strongly inclined in spirit to understand many passages spiritually. Calling me names cannot change this... please respect me and bless my studying instead. I dont even know what most of the words I was called meant, I had to look up on Google. :D
keep studying up sister. The issue really boils down to the question; Is God still dealing with National Israel and has specific future promises to Her in store or is God done with Her and has cast her aside for good as a Nation?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
keep studying up sister. The issue really boils down to the question; Is God still dealing with National Israel and has specific promises to Her in store or is God done with Her and has cast her aside for Good as a Nation?
exactly, It is a national question, not induvidual
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
I stand corrected again. I have never heard anyone else say this, but evidently they do. Thanks for the info, good to have :)

I just remembered a thread somebody started a few months ago about how many are saved.
There was a couple that used the 144,000 and the scripture about many called but few chosen to show how that pretty much all of us our lost and not saved.

The thing is though we all still have areas we need to work on, and even misquote things time to time, even I do that.
That is why we are here and also assembly for bible studies also, to learn more and to find out areas we need to do more study on.
For example there maybe one area I spend more time on studying then you, and you may spend more time on another then me. Therefore I can give you more insight on what I am more studied on, and you can give me more insight on what you have more study on.

It is the ones who go around and believe that what they say is 100% correct, and is not flawed in any way is the one's the scriptures say will be made to look foolish at the end. I am sorry to say, but I have not seen one preacher yet that has everything 100% correct. Some things like prophecies in the bible are left up to guesses or opinions until they come to be fulfilled.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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I would say that Satan "struck Christ's heel" through his crucifixion BUT He rose from the dead and that is what spoiled principalities and powers and triumphed over them - they [principalities and powers] did not believe he would rise or else they wouldn't have had him crucified. [HaHa - LOOK - you couldn't keep me down! and NOW I am IN every believer] Satan will be CRUSHED when he is cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. I see it this way because Corinthians says that he is the "god of this world" and if he is crushed NOW then he couldn't be the "god of this world".

Is that what you see? Of course, my understanding could be off . .
Actually, had Satan known the outcome of the crucifixion, he would have done everything in his power to keep Christ alive.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Actually, had Satan known the outcome of the crucifixion, he would have done everything in his power to keep Christ alive.
I agree, which brings up an interesting point, satan knew the OT promises but couldn't decipher God's plan.
 
Oct 24, 2014
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I think that clearing things up would be helpful, for a more fruitful conversation.

To the OP: I do not believe in so called "replacement theology", whatever it is, for one simple reason. If you have ever truly loved someone, you would know that they cannot be replaced... ever. I think a lot of people posting here are being simply misunderstood. I dont think anybody is saying that Jews got replaced. A chunk of them fell off, and Gentile believers were joined to the precious remnant and they are now together in Jesus. But this is nothing new, majority of the physical Jews were backsliding and they were killing the saints among them. The apostles were Jewish, right? He will gather the lost sheep again. HOW precisely will He do it seems to bring disagreement. Well, guess what? None of us can prove they are right. I will love whom Jesus loves and hate what He hates. My signature says do not curse the deaf. Majority of physical Jews are currently deaf to the Gospel. We need to draw them with love.

I believe Word of God is BOTH spiritual and literal, true on all levels, and God is able to bring it to fulfillment even contrary to our logic. The controversy on this thread is reminding me of i.e. Calvinism vs Arminianism, when both sides are right and both are wrong by excluding the other: God did preordinate us and also we do have free will. And He can make a stone that He cant lift, too. It only surpasses our scope of logic.

I dont know everything and I allow the possibility that someone with opposite opinion might be right and I be wrong on something. I do not deny various physical manifestations from the prophecy during the end times. We just dont know how exactly it will come to pass, until it comes to pass... which is exactly the purpose, to know it then. Which we will, because we read all these Scriptures now and we are warned against the antichrist and all that :) Also, I am strongly inclined in spirit to understand many passages spiritually. Calling me names cannot change this... please respect me and bless my studying instead. I dont even know what most of the words I was called meant, I had to look up on Google. :D
:) Amen. I so love your Christ like heart and wisdom my dear Sister. Such a bright light shining in a dark place. This is you ya know...

(Luk 11:36)
If therefore thy whole body be full of light, having no part dark, it shall be wholly full of light, as when the lamp with its bright shining doth give thee light.

(2Pe 1:19)
And we have the word of prophecy made more sure; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts:
(Php 2:15)
that ye may become blameless and harmless, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom ye are seen as lights in the world,

You, all of us together, We who are crowned with 12 Stars and clothed with the Sun, ARE the Shining Lights Promised to Abraham!

(Jas 1:17)
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, neither shadow that is cast by turning.
(1Pe 2:9)
But ye are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

(Php 2:15)

that ye may become blameless and harmless, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom ye are seen as lights in the world,




(Mat 5:14)
Ye are the light of the world.

And where does all that "shining light" prophecies come from?






(Gen 26:3)
...I will establish the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father.




(Gen 26:4)
And I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these lands. And in thy seed (CHRIST) shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.





(Psa 89:15)
Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: They walk, O Jehovah, in the light of thy countenance.

BUT...........................

If anyone here believes the lies of the false prophet, who IS THE TAIL...




(Isa 9:15)

...the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.


Shall lose your present place in Salvation and be cast down to the earth and destroyed by their poison that kills;





(Rev 12:4)
And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child.


Those antichrist futurists who desire to devour the Child of the Bride of Christ is everyone's worst enemy. They don't even know they are enemies of the Gospel. They are just hapless parrots of each other who hate what scriptures says. They only like what they think it means. And whatever exactly that is, it involves the worst forms of conduct with lies and false accusations on an extremely personal level. Only something a devil would do. And I have no problem grabbing a devil and putting him in his place. And the ones who like to devour the Child of God from His Mother Israel, even destroy Christ from saving His Mother Israel, is worse than a cretin, and in danger of a very hot place reserved for "the accuser of the brethren".

Peace and Love to Israel! Thank you Jesus for saving us Messiah! Give us strength to endure the enemy who hates your Gospel and would not have your to rule and reign in Israel. Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do!
Amen
 
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Romans 11:26-32 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Yes. God hasn't repented of calling us and giving us gifts. That is what Jesus did.


(Jas 1:17)
Every good gift and every perfect gift comes down from above, from the Father of lights, with whom is no variation nor shadow of turning.


He'll never repent of doing this for us. And I'll never cease to thank Him for this :)
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,374
188
63
I agree, which brings up an interesting point, satan knew the OT promises but couldn't decipher God's plan.
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

There are certain things that God has reserved unto Himself...

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Some things remain concealed. Example:

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

God knows things He has not revealed even to the Covering Cherubs at His throne.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I think that clearing things up would be helpful, for a more fruitful conversation.

To the OP: I do not believe in so called "replacement theology", whatever it is, for one simple reason. If you have ever truly loved someone, you would know that they cannot be replaced... ever. I think a lot of people posting here are being simply misunderstood. I dont think anybody is saying that Jews got replaced. A chunk of them fell off, and Gentile believers were joined to the precious remnant and they are now together in Jesus. But this is nothing new, majority of the physical Jews were backsliding and they were killing the saints among them. The apostles were Jewish, right? He will gather the lost sheep again. HOW precisely will He do it seems to bring disagreement. Well, guess what? None of us can prove they are right. I will love whom Jesus loves and hate what He hates. My signature says do not curse the deaf. Majority of physical Jews are currently deaf to the Gospel. We need to draw them with love.

I believe Word of God is BOTH spiritual and literal, true on all levels, and God is able to bring it to fulfillment even contrary to our logic. The controversy on this thread is reminding me of i.e. Calvinism vs Arminianism, when both sides are right and both are wrong by excluding the other: God did preordinate us and also we do have free will. And He can make a stone that He cant lift, too. It only surpasses our scope of logic.

I dont know everything and I allow the possibility that someone with opposite opinion might be right and I be wrong on something. I do not deny various physical manifestations from the prophecy during the end times. We just dont know how exactly it will come to pass, until it comes to pass... which is exactly the purpose, to know it then. Which we will, because we read all these Scriptures now and we are warned against the antichrist and all that :) Also, I am strongly inclined in spirit to understand many passages spiritually. Calling me names cannot change this... please respect me and bless my studying instead. I dont even know what most of the words I was called meant, I had to look up on Google. :D
I am the OP and I dont think I have called you names,in fact I know I haven't. I havent commented much at all.There are two ways of seeing this and reading this thread you can see what each believes.I have no problem with you at all,we just dont see this the same way.Others have made nasty comments so I dont respond to that kind of behavior.But I dont mind discussing with you because you'd never been nasty to me.As you said we will see in the end I guess which way is right.Either way you and I dont need to be enemies over an opinion.Because we are going to the same heaven. :)


ps Thank you for the nice way you have disagreed without attacking or name calling,I appreciate it.
 
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SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
Crossnote, I would be inclined to say that He is still dealing with the national Israel for the sake of their Remnant (Jewish believers in Jesus). Look at China, India and Russia today. Their economies are prospering imo because faith in Jesus is on the rise there.

And they are also being blessed for His sake, because Jesus came out of their flesh. I dont believe any saved Christian could hate a people where their Savior came from.

I do not believe they will receive a political country, and firmly believe the Jewish Kingdom is "His will be done on Earth".
1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
But I respect those with other opinions...

God is also still dealing with us (underserving) for the sake of Jesus.
Last night I was pondering on where the OP was coming from. I think that what she is talking about and the reason why they might be succeeding in various things is generational blessings, and they are persecuted and hated because of the generational curse, which they accepted at the Cross (Matthew 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.) I think God is too rich in power and lovingkind to withdraw when He has blessed someone and that the blessing stays, but they added a curse upon it.

The Remnant is personified in the Bible because it stands for the Messiah. God blesses us all for the sake of Jesus. But the one who is given more is required more also, so by rejection of Jesus they received greater curse than other nations... hope I make sense.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
I am the OP and I dont think I have called you names,in fact I know I haven't. I havent commented much at all.There are two ways of seeing this and reading this thread you can see what each believes.I have no problem with you at all,we just dont see this the same way.Others have made nasty comments so I dont respond to that kind of behavior.But I dont mind discussing with you because you'd never been nasty to me.As you said we will see in the end I guess which way is right.Either way you and I dont need to be enemies over an opinion.Because we are going to the same heaven. :)
Calling names did not refer to you at all, only the first paragraph. :)
I was explaining where I was coming from so we could agree on more and discuss more easily.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
Calling names did not refer to you at all, only the first paragraph. :)
I was explaining where I was coming from so we could agree on more and discuss more easily.

We're all good soul weaver ;)
 
Oct 24, 2014
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I would say that Satan "struck Christ's heel" through his crucifixion BUT He rose from the dead and that is what spoiled principalities and powers and triumphed over them - they [principalities and powers] did not believe he would rise or else they wouldn't have had him crucified. [HaHa - LOOK - you couldn't keep me down! and NOW I am IN every believer] Satan will be CRUSHED when he is cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. I see it this way because Corinthians says that he is the "god of this world" and if he is crushed NOW then he couldn't be the "god of this world".

Is that what you see? Of course, my understanding could be off . .
Anyone in a body of flesh is of course, dealing with that satan 'god of this world' fleshly self until he has no more flesh.

Jesus destroyed satan in Himself.
He has destroyed satan in each believer since then,
He is destroying satan in me. It is something that happens in our flesh. It is a burning away of our old man enemy self who is constantly consumed by the brightness of His Coming.
Provided we are constantly receiving Him Coming into our flesh that is...
Christ "Come in the flesh" is where the battle against satan occurs :)

So we each of us in our battle in Christ, against the propensities of our flesh, the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life, all come from the world, but we destroy them :) By the Power of Christ woohoo!

Helmet of Salvation...knowing we are saved by Jesus.
Sword of the spirit, we slice the head off that tempter beast.
Shield of faith to withstand the fiery darts of the wicked who hate us because they hate Jesus.
Breastplate of Righteousness by which ever temptation wilts and has no chance to turn into sin in our flesh.
Loins girded with truth so we will know exactly who the enemy is to fight and to be able to warn others about.
Feet shod with the Gospel of peace, so that we can know the Love of salvation one with another and graft more individuals out of the Nations into the Israel Olive Tree of Christ Jesus our Lord!
And finally tempered together in the fire of faith that melts and reshapes our armor perfectly, and the prayer that empowers us to conquer in His Name.

Is this fun or what :)

Thank you Jesus!
 
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1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

There are certain things that God has reserved unto Himself...

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Some things remain concealed. Example:

Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

God knows things He has not revealed even to the Covering Cherubs at His throne.
Quite unfortunately possibly for you that is true. You sure can't be a messenger of the Lord without desiring to look into these things.

As for me, I wouldn't be an angel/messenger of these things if I didn't have God's total revelation and perfect understanding of these things by the INDWELLING OF HIS SPIRIT.
More Christianity 101 coming right up! :)

(1Jn 2:20)
And *ye* have the unction (anointing) from the holy one, and ye know all things.

(Mat 13:11)
And he answering said to them, Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not given;
(Luk 8:10)

And he said, To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest in parables, in order that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.





(1Co 2:9)
but according as it is written, Things which eye has not seen, and ear not heard, and which have not come into man's heart, which God has prepared for them that love him,




(1Co 2:10)
but God has revealed to us by his Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.




(1Co 2:11)
For who of men hath known the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? thus also the things of God knows no one except the Spirit of God.




(1Co 2:12)
But *we* have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, that we may know the things which have been freely given to us of God:




(1Co 2:13)
which also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, communicating spiritual things by spiritual means .




(1Co 2:14)
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him; and he cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned;




(1Co 2:15)
but the spiritual discerns all things, and *he* is discerned of no one.




(1Co 2:16)
...

But *we* have the mind of Christ.

We who look into these things and are revealed all wisdom knowledge and understanding of the things of the Spirit of God, well, we can't help but go and tell others about it...

HahAAaa!!

Yep. That's us :)


 

 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
Crossnote, I would be inclined to say that He is still dealing with the national Israel for the sake of their Remnant (Jewish believers in Jesus). Look at China, India and Russia today. Their economies are prospering imo because faith in Jesus is on the rise there.

And they are also being blessed for His sake, because Jesus came out of their flesh. I dont believe any saved Christian could hate a people where their Savior came from.

I do not believe they will receive a political country, and firmly believe the Jewish Kingdom is "His will be done on Earth".
1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
But I respect those with other opinions...

God is also still dealing with us (underserving) for the sake of Jesus.
Last night I was pondering on where the OP was coming from. I think that what she is talking about and the reason why they might be succeeding in various things is generational blessings, and they are persecuted and hated because of the generational curse, which they accepted at the Cross (Matthew 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.) I think God is too rich in power and lovingkind to withdraw when He has blessed someone and that the blessing stays, but they added a curse upon it.

The Remnant is personified in the Bible because it stands for the Messiah. God blesses us all for the sake of Jesus. But the one who is given more is required more also, so by rejection of Jesus they received greater curse than other nations... hope I make sense.
True, it was prophesied that they would be scattered to the four corners of the earth and persecuted wherever they went; but also in time they would be regathered into the Land never to be dislodged again. But they still must face a great fiery trial before God breaks their resistance to the Gospel. ..and those who endure and come to Christ will be saved.