THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

[JesusIsAll]

What then is the Antichrist going to put on one of the two Wings of the Temple?
Could it be a guillotine to begin the beheadings?
Is that the Abomination of Desolation prophesied?

Recalling reading a commentary on Ezekiel's temple, it's really big! It's not like an old Jewish temple architecture-wise, the sacrifices not the same, there's the river, with a lot of fish, Christ dwelling in it: this doesn't seem to be your Daddy's tribulation temple, by any stretch. It seems clear, unless you throw out literal interpretation, the temple is millennial, that, also, there's a renewal of animal sacrifice in the millennium. Tell you what, you don't need Antichrist to lop your head off, it will just fall off, thinking too much about Ezekiel's temple, which is a can of worms! But there will never be a tribulation, if one thinks that temple is going to be built in any foreseeable future, a river popup, etc, or that Ezekiel's temple would even be the one built by Judaism in practice, as Judaism was always practiced in the Old Testament.

Thar be mah tooo cents...

 

[VCO]

Recalling reading a commentary on Ezekiel's temple, it's really big! It's not like an old Jewish temple architecture-wise, the sacrifices not the same, there's the river, with a lot of fish, Christ dwelling in it: this doesn't seem to be your Daddy's tribulation temple, by any stretch. It seems clear, unless you throw out literal interpretation, the temple is millennial, that, also, there's a renewal of animal sacrifice in the millennium. Tell you what, you don't need Antichrist to lop your head off, it will just fall off, thinking too much about Ezekiel's temple, which is a can of worms! But there will never be a tribulation, if one thinks that temple is going to be built in any foreseeable future, a river popup, etc, or that Ezekiel's temple would even be the one built by Judaism in practice, as Judaism was always practiced in the Old Testament.

Thar be mah tooo cents...

I do not have ANY IDEA where you got that info. All you have to do is zoom in to 200%, and you will see that the measurement Chart is also in feet. USING THAT CHART and measuring the diagram of the temple, not counting the outer courts and walls, or the actual two wings, I measured the actual size of the Temple Building, the Yard, and the courtyard around the Altar. It measures approximately 320 feet by 160 feet counting the side yards and the back yard too. In other words it will SIT on any American Football field without even going into the stadium seats. If you add the two wings on either side into the formula, they will slide into the concession stands area on the ground floor, without going beyond the outer wall of the stadium.

In other words I found this CHART picturing where the two wings actually are in relation to where the Mercy Seat would be located, showing that since it is prophesied that Antichrist will sit as God in the temple, HE WILL NOT BE SITTING ON THE STEPS OF ONE OF THE TWO WINGS.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I do not have ANY IDEA where you got that info. All you have to do is zoom in to 200%, and you will see that the measurement Chart is also in feet. USING THAT CHART and measuring the diagram of the temple, not counting the outer courts and walls, or the actual two wings, I measured the actual size of the Temple Building, the Yard, and the courtyard around the Altar. It measures approximately 320 feet by 160 feet counting the side yards and the back yard too. In other words it will SIT on any American Football field without even going into the stadium seats. If you add the two wings on either side into the formula, they will slide into the concession stands area on the ground floor, without going beyond the outer wall of the stadium.

In other words I found this CHART picturing where the two wings actually are in relation to where the Mercy Seat would be located, showing that since it is prophesied that Antichrist will sit as God in the temple, HE WILL NOT BE SITTING ON THE STEPS OF ONE OF THE TWO WINGS.

There was a diagram from Dallas Theological Seminary showing 875 feet in width, which is the smallest dimension I've ever seen! But this is the tip of the iceberg of huge issues making the Ezekiel temple the tribulation temple, as mentioned the river and fish, structure of the center core, type of sacrifice, Christ's actual presence, apples and oranges issues. The best one can do is make this temple something which is expanded upon in the millennium, then, and this after the very earth, geography, is altered.

 

[watcher2013]

NO, I believe the TWO WITNESSES, literally are Enoch and Elijah, and GOD who is Omnipresent in all time, grabbed them out of their time frame, and PLACED them in them in the 70th Week of Daniel, to be instrumental in fulfilling these prophecies about Israel, leading them all to believe in Yeshua as they Messiah and LORD.

Ezekiel 37:21 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] tell them: This is what the Lord GOD says: I am going to take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them into their own land.

AND for the past few decades, we have been witnessing that very event being fulfilled; BUT GOD IS NOT FINISHED WITH ISRAEL.

Romans 11:25-27 (NKJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."

Jeremiah 23:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Ezekiel 34:13-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 34:22 (NKJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep.
Ezekiel 34:30-31 (NKJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Thus they shall know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people," says the Lord GOD.' "
[SUP]31 [/SUP] You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God," says the Lord GOD.

Isaiah 4:2-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] On that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of Israel’s survivors.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Whoever remains in Zion and whoever is left in Jerusalem will be called holy—all in Jerusalem who are destined to live—
[SUP]4 [/SUP] when the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodguilt from the heart of Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of burning.

Ezekiel 39:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] They will know that I am Yahweh their God when I regather them to their own land after having exiled them among the nations. I will leave none of them behind.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel.” ⌊This is⌋ the declaration of the Lord GOD.


NOW, I ask you, what would be the effect of the TWO WITNESSES, if they were miraculously recognized by all the Jewish People as being Enoch and Elijah; just like the Disciples miraculously recognized Moses and Elijah on the Mt. of Transfiguration. And according to the Scriptures, these TWO WITNESSES will be doing miracles of GOD to validate GOD sent them; and what if their primary WITNESS was "Yeshua is your Messiah! Yeshua is God in the Flesh!" AND it would CERTAINLY be ALL OVER the TV NEWS over and over again in ISRAEL. How long would it take to convert every single one of the Jewish People to Believe and receive Jesus Christ as their Messiah and LORD?

I think you are delusional in thinking it was enech and elijah and that they were transported into the future:
Biblically elijah was taken into heaven and his body was translated:
*[[2Ki 2:11-12]] ISV* %v 11% As they continued on, talking as they went, suddenly chariots blazing with fire and pulled by fiery horses appeared, separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a wind storm to heaven! %v 12% As Elisha continued to watch, he cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots of Israel and its cavalry!” Then he did not see Elijah anymore. After this, Elisha gripped his clothes that he was wearing, tore them apart into two pieces,

See, elijah's clothes were left behind . . . Evidence.that his body was not anymore of the physical type.

Regarding the two witnesses being recognized, i do not need to assume a scenario for the bible said no one will believed them. See rev 11.

 

[VCO]

Recalling reading a commentary on Ezekiel's temple, it's really big! It's not like an old Jewish temple architecture-wise, the sacrifices not the same, there's the river, with a lot of fish, Christ dwelling in it: this doesn't seem to be your Daddy's tribulation temple, by any stretch. It seems clear, unless you throw out literal interpretation, the temple is millennial, that, also, there's a renewal of animal sacrifice in the millennium. Tell you what, you don't need Antichrist to lop your head off, it will just fall off, thinking too much about Ezekiel's temple, which is a can of worms! But there will never be a tribulation, if one thinks that temple is going to be built in any foreseeable future, a river popup, etc, or that Ezekiel's temple would even be the one built by Judaism in practice, as Judaism was always practiced in the Old Testament.

Thar be mah tooo cents...

The blueprints for the Third Temple are already made, so are all of the artifacts that go into the Temple, and the Priests are currently being TRAINED. The Jews are convinced that GOD will cause something to happen that will allow them to build the Temple, EXACTLY where the Second Temple stood, with VERY PRECISE, IDENTICAL MEASUREMENTS.

[video=youtube;vCsEMjpZZoo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCsEMjpZZoo[/video]

 

[JesusIsAll]

Here's a quote from a website I just found, that mentions the 875 feet seen a lot, as well as the large land area,

"The prophet Ezekiel (Ezekiel 40-48) describes in great detail a temple in Israel that is much too large to fit on the present Temple Mount site. The Temple of Ezekiel proper measures about 875 feet square, and it sits in the middle of a large consecrated area (See inset in diagram below). Ezekiel's temple is also very different in many details from any previous temples that have existed in Israel (or elsewhere). Therefore most Bible scholars believe there will one day exist in the Holy Land a Fourth or "Millennial" Temple."

Here's the website the quote came from, if you're interested. I can't vouch for all the info on it, having just found it, but it seems pretty juicy and scholarly.

Ezekiel's Temple <-- click here​

 

[VCO]

There was a diagram from Dallas Theological Seminary showing 875 feet in width, which is the smallest dimension I've ever seen! But this is the tip of the iceberg of huge issues making the Ezekiel temple the tribulation temple, as mentioned the river and fish, structure of the center core, type of sacrifice, Christ's actual presence, apples and oranges issues. The best one can do is make this temple something which is expanded upon in the millennium, then, and this after the very earth, geography, is altered.

But I was NOT talking about the Millennial Temple, I was talking about Third Temple, that will be built at the beginning of Antichrist's Seven Year Reign. The Jews have planned every step of how it will be built, to the exact specifications of the Second Temple, the ONE that actually existed in Old Testament times.

 

[watcher2013]

AND for the past few decades, we have been witnessing that very event being fulfilled; BUT GOD IS NOT FINISHED WITH ISRAEL.

Romans 11:25-27 (NKJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."

I think you missed the part that blindness in part has happened to Israel

They were blinded in PART only ...who do you think are the believers in the churches of
Smyrna
Rev_2:9 'I know your suffering and your poverty—though you are rich—and the slander committed by those who claim to be Jews but are not. They are the synagogue of Satan.
Philadelphia
Rev_3:9 I will make those who belong to the synagogue of Satan—those who claim to be Jews and aren't, but are lying—come and bow down at your feet. Then they will realize that I have loved you
God continue to deals with Israel....we are only used to make them jealous

Rom_11:11 And so I ask, "They have not stumbled so as to fall, have they?" Of course not! On the contrary, because of their stumbling, salvation has come to the gentiles to make the Jews jealous

See.. even if salvation has come to the gentiles it is God's way in dealing with the Jews.... and when he comes ALL of them not PArt shall be saved in reference to the rest of your verses.

NOW, I ask you, what would be the effect of the TWO WITNESSES, if they were miraculously recognized by all the Jewish People as being Enoch and Elijah; just like the Disciples miraculously recognized Moses and Elijah on the Mt. of Transfiguration. And according to the Scriptures, these TWO WITNESSES will be doing miracles of GOD to validate GOD sent them; and what if their primary WITNESS was "Yeshua is your Messiah! Yeshua is God in the Flesh!" AND it would CERTAINLY be ALL OVER the TV NEWS over and over again in ISRAEL. How long would it take to convert every single one of the Jewish People to Believe and receive Jesus Christ as their Messiah and LORD?

If you so believed that in the mount of transfiguration it was Elijah...then Elijah was not translated into the future but is in heaven...contradicting your first belief.

 

[JesusIsAll]

But I was NOT talking about the Mellinial Temple, I was talking about Third Temple, that will be built at the beginning of Antichrist's Seven Year Reign. The Jews have planned every step of how it will be built, to the exact specifications of the Second Temple.

Well, your diagram shows Ezekiel's temple. I'm confused enough, so please don't be confusing me more!

 

[watcher2013]

The Two witnesses come to fulfill God's Promises to ISRAEL, in the 70th Week of Daniel. Those who did not receive Jesus Christ by submitting to His LORDSHIP, prior to the End of the Church-age, will have to become Martyred Saints, during the Tribulation. THUS even Jews who turn to believe in Jesus as the Messiah after the Rapture of the Church, who are not part of the 144,000 mortal Jews sealed from harm by GOD; will become martyred Tribulation Saints.


NOW, before you get confused, and ask about Old Testament Saints, the BRIDE of CHRIST is made up of Old Testament Saints, Church-age Saints, and Tribulation Saints. ALL three groups were Sanctified by the Blood of Lamb, Jesus Christ.

Old Testament Saints believed the Messiah would come and save them from their Sins.
Church-age and Tribulation Saints believe Messiah did come and saved us by the shedding of His Blood.

NO, it is your mixed up understanding that is causing you to misunderstand what I said.

I CERTAINLY DID NOT SAY IT WAS THEIR MARTYRED BLOOD THAT SAVED THEM, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ON THE BLOOD OF JESUS THAT SAVES THEM.

highlighted above was your response that they WILL HAVE TO BE MARTYRED...though in your other statement referring to the tribulation saints that they are believer that Christ saved them...

as pointed out to you...the apostles were martyred and there is no difference if some were martyred today or in the future... All believer shall be saved...and we are members of that one body...today or even in the future...
thus separating them is separating other members of the body.

You can LOOSE your misunderstanding about the Bride being the New City Jerusalem because it says:

Revelation 22:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Both the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Anyone who hears should say, “Come!” And the one who is thirsty should come. Whoever desires should take the living water as a gift.

NEVER EVER WILL A CITY SAY “Come!”

The Expression "adorned as a bride" is ONLY talking about HOW you dress up your HOUSE if you are going to have a Wedding in it. THUS, it it identifies the LOCATION of the Wedding, not who the Bride is.

Never a person will marry a city...and Yet God said:
Isa 62:5 "For just as a young man marries a maiden, so your sons will marry you; and just as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so your God rejoice will over you.

Isa 62:6
"Upon your walls, Jerusalem, I have posted watchmen; all day and all night they won't remain silent. You who make mention of the LORD, take no rest,
A city with a new name:

Isa 62:2 The nations will see your vindication, and all the kings your glory; and people will call you by a new name that the mouth of the LORD will bestow.

Rev 3:12 I will make the one who conquers to become a pillar in the sanctuary of my God, and he will never go out of it again. I will write on him the name of my God, the name of the city of my God (the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God), and my own new name.
and here is your Bride
Rev 21:2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 6:9-11 (HCSB)

[SUP]9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the people slaughtered because of God’s word and the testimony they had.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They cried out with a loud voice: “Lord, the One who is holy and true, how long until You judge and avenge our blood from those who live on the earth?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP] So a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been. {The Tribulation Saints.}
Revelation 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders {THIS clearly identifies the LOCATION of the Church, as ALREADY BEING IN HEAVEN for the Wedding of the Lamb.} asked me, “Who are these people robed in white, and where did they come from?”
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me: These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

I think you may have missed a very important part about this verse:

and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been

See what you missed....This statement is a figure of speech:
They were told to Rest a little while longer....Rest as the state of being dead...
proven by the following statement...until the number would be completed.(number of dead)...Who were going to be KILLED as they had been...

NO Resurrection YET..

 

[VCO]

Well, your diagram shows Ezekiel's temple. I'm confused enough, so please don't be confusing me more!

I grabbed the first picture of the Temple showing the location of the holy of holies, that I could find, and my point had NOTHING to do with the Book of Ezekial. My only point is that with the Holy of Holies being in the back of the Temple and the Wings towards the front, and the prophecy of the Antichrist SITTING as God in the Temple and the Abomination of Desolation being on one of the Wings of the Temple; the fact that Antichrist is Sitting in the Holy of Holies IS NOT THE WHOLE PICTURE OF WHAT IS THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION.

I should have taken more time to find this picture, sorry:

 

[JesusIsAll]

That's a cool diagram, never quite seen anything like it. I've heard it said, a number of times, they even have the temple structure in storage, like walls, to assemble. Problem is, there are so many people writing quack books or selling DVDs out there, it's hard to say what's true, but, then again, I don't tend to research some things much, focus on tribulation details, perse. I'm still trying to figure out Ezekiel's Gog and Magog weapons burning, much less where that temple fits, with its millennial animal sacrifices.

 

[VCO]

highlighted above was your response that they WILL HAVE TO BE MARTYRED...though in your other statement referring to the tribulation saints that they are believer that Christ saved them...

as pointed out to you...the apostles were martyred and there is no difference if some were martyred today or in the future... All believer shall be saved...and we are members of that one body...today or even in the future...
thus separating them is separating other members of the body.



Never a person will marry a city...and Yet God said:
Isa 62:5 "For just as a young man marries a maiden, so your sons will marry you; and just as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so your God rejoice will over you.

Isa 62:6
"Upon your walls, Jerusalem, I have posted watchmen; all day and all night they won't remain silent. You who make mention of the LORD, take no rest,
A city with a new name:

Isa 62:2 The nations will see your vindication, and all the kings your glory; and people will call you by a new name that the mouth of the LORD will bestow.

Rev 3:12 I will make the one who conquers to become a pillar in the sanctuary of my God, and he will never go out of it again. I will write on him the name of my God, the name of the city of my God (the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God), and my own new name.
and here is your Bride
Rev 21:2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.

I think you may have missed a very important part about this verse:

and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been

See what you missed....This statement is a figure of speech:
They were told to Rest a little while longer....Rest as the state of being dead...
proven by the following statement...until the number would be completed.(number of dead)...Who were going to be KILLED as they had been...

NO Resurrection YET..

RIGHT, I missed NOTHING, the First Resurrection is two-fold. The Church-age Saints get their resurrected, glorified bodies, just prior to the Seven Year Tribulation Period; and the Tribulation Tribulation Saints get their resurrected, glorified bodies, at the very beginning of HIS Millennial Kingdom. THE CHURCH, represented by the ELDERS is in heaven, who are all in their glorified bodies, while the Tribulation Saints are only in their human Spirit and/or Soul. WHAT'S TO MISS ? ? ?

I have said several times, that the Bride of Christ is comprised of genuine Believers of the Old Testament Times, the Church-age, and the Tribulation martyred Saints. You apparently are not reading all of my posts, and only assuming you know what I meant by what I said.

I quoted the very verse you did to verify that geniune Old Testament Believers were part of the Bride. I quoted the fact that Christ is the head of the Church just like the husband is head of the wife, to prove that the Church is part of the bride. and I quoted that the Tribulation Saints also received the fine white linen robes of a bride, to prove that they too were part of the Bride. I pointed out that the New City Jerusalem is the the dwelling place of the Bride, NOT the Bride herself, because the BRIDE speaks and calls others to COME, to the Lord; and a CITY cannot SPEAK.

So what is your point, other than you are totally misunderstanding what my beliefs are?

THERE IS ONE POINT I HAVE NOT MADE YET, that absolutely PROVES that the Bride has to be Called Out to go to Heaven prior the the Beginning of Antichrist's SEVEN YEAR COVENANT OF PEACE with Israel.

Matthew 25:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour."

When Antichrist makes His SEVEN YEAR COVENANT OF PEACE with Israel, THAT WILL BE ALL OVER CNN AND OTHER TV NEWS CHANNELS. So I can then TELL YOU what Day is exactly 3.5 years from the signing of that TREATY, and what Day is the exact END of that SEVEN YEAR PEACE TREATY, ruling out mid-Trib and post-Trib theories. I absolutely believe GOD is one hundred percent accurate, when HE is giving a prophecy that involves a specific amount of TIME. YES, Antichrist breaks the Peace Treaty three and a half years into it and that too will be all over the NEWS, but THAT DOES NOT CHANGE HOW MANY DAYS GOD GIVES ANTICHRIST TO REIGN. IT WILL END at exactly Seven Years to the day.

THEREFORE, the Bride of Christ, has to be Called Out before the Signing of Antichrist's Peace Treaty with ISRAEL; for the prophecy about NOT KNOWING THE DAY OR HOUR TO BE TRUE.

How do I know that GOD is that ACCURATE when HE prophesies about TIME?

John 2:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “What has this concern of yours to do with Me, woman?” Jesus asked.
“My hourhas not yet come.”

Daniel 9:25-26 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince will be seven weeks {49 years to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple.} and 62 weeks {434 years.}. It will be rebuilt with a plaza and a moat, but in difficult times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off {killed on the Cross.} and will have nothing. The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed.

JESUS CHRIST, being GOD in the flesh, KNEW exactly what HOUR that decree was made.

 

[VCO]

That's a cool diagram, never quite seen anything like it. I've heard it said, a number of times, they even have the temple structure in storage, like walls, to assemble. Problem is, there are so many people writing quack books or selling DVDs out there, it's hard to say what's true, but, then again, I don't tend to research some things much, focus on tribulation details, perse. I'm still trying to figure out Ezekiel's Gog and Magog weapons burning, much less where that temple fits, with its millennial animal sacrifices.

I trust the info on that video that I posted, because it was made by the Rabbi Chaim Richman, the head of the Temple Institute in Jerusalem.

As for Gog and Magog, I found a map in an old KJV of the Bible that I used to have and it showed Gog up around Moscow and Magog northeast of Turkey. I also remember reading a couple decades ago that there is a dam in Russia on what feed the Jordan River, that is high enough to shut the water off for several days while a large army crosses on the River bed in several places.

I ran across portion of scripture that seem to indicate that the Battle of Armageddon is much more widespread than just the Valley in front of Megiddo. It appears that the Russian Army is going to be killed actually just east of the Mediterranean Sea in the Jezreel Valley according The MacArthur Bible Commentary. And it sounds like they will be picking up bodies and body parts throughout that Valley and surrounding areas for seven months. Hence I think the prophecy of blood as deep as the bridals of horses is quite literal.

Ezekiel 39:11-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] “Now on that day I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel—the Valley of the Travelers east of the Sea. It will block those who travel through, for Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So ⌊it⌋ will be called the Valley of Hamon-gog.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The house of Israel will spend seven months burying them in order to cleanse the land.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] All the people of the land will bury ⌊them⌋ and their fame will spread on the day I display My glory.” ⌊This is⌋ the declaration of the Lord GOD.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] “They will appoint men on a full-time basis to pass through the land and bury the invaders who remain on the surface of the ground, in order to cleanse it. They will make ⌊their⌋ search at the end of the seven months.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] When they pass through the land and one of them sees a human bone, he will set up a marker next to it until the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon-gog.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] There will even be a city named Hamonah ⌊there⌋. So they will cleanse the land.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] “Son of man, this is what the Lord GOD says: Tell every kind of bird and all the wild animals: Assemble and come! Gather from all around to My sacrificial feast that I am slaughtering for you, a great feast on the mountains of Israel; you will eat flesh and drink blood.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the earth’s princes: rams, lambs, male goats, and all the fattened bulls of Bashan.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] You will eat fat until you are satisfied and drink blood until you are drunk, at My sacrificial feast that I have prepared for you.
​

[SUP]20 [/SUP] At My table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, of mighty men and all the warriors.” ⌊This is⌋ the declaration of the Lord GOD.

Here is how we know it is talking about the same battle as recorded in Rev. 19:

Revelation 19:21 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I trust the info on that video that I posted, because it was made by the Rabbi Chaim Richman, the head of the Temple Institute in Jerusalem.

As for Gog and Magog, I found a map in an old KJV of the Bible that I used to have and it showed Gog up around Moscow and Magog northeast of Turkey. I also remember reading a couple decades ago that there is a dam in Russia on what feed the Jordan River, that is high enough to shut the water off for several days while a large army crosses on the River bed in several places.

I ran across portion of scripture that seem to indicate that the Battle of Armageddon is much more widespread than just the Valley in front of Megiddo. It appears that the Russian Army is going to be killed actually just east of the Mediterranean Sea in the Jezreel Valley according The MacArthur Bible Commentary. And it sounds like they will be picking up bodies and body parts throughout that Valley and surrounding areas for seven months. Hence I think the prophecy of blood as deep as the bridals of horses is quite literal.

That's all well and good, but what of the weapons of Ezekiel 39 "And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years?" I find it impossible to equate such explicit weaponry components to modern weapons, little of which would burn, without doing exactly what literalists like myself abhor, symbolizing a case to fit the square peg into a round hole. But it's also a square peg to shift this to a detailed account of the Gog and Magog incident of Revelation, though there one could see primitive weapons being used. This is as difficult as aspects of the Ezekiel temple. How about them weapons? "Enquiring minds want to know."​

 

[VCO]

That's all well and good, but what of the weapons of Ezekiel 39 "And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years?" I find it impossible to equate such explicit weaponry components to modern weapons, little of which would burn, without doing exactly what literalists like myself abhor, symbolizing a case to fit the square peg into a round hole. But it's also a square peg to shift this to a detailed account of the Gog and Magog incident of Revelation, though there one could see primitive weapons being used. This is as difficult as aspects of the Ezekiel temple. How about them weapons? "Enquiring minds want to know."​

You have to put yourself in Ezekiel's shoes, knowing NOTHING about modern warfare, and forced to describe what he is seeing. the weapons that set everything on fire, burning everything, including the weapons themselves, may be how he saw nukes going off. spears could be missiles, etc. And if nukes are involved it would be awhile before the tanks are removed from the battlefield, and then they may salvage the fuel to use to heat their homes. HENCE they use the weapons in Ezekiel's eye to fire up their stoves, and he can only equate that to burning wood.

Ezekiel 1:21 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] When the creatures moved, the wheels moved; when the creatures stood still, the wheels stood still; and when the creatures rose from the earth, the wheels rose alongside them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

Could he be seeing tanks, having NO IDEA what he was seeing, and thus this is the best he could describe it. Like John, I suspect Ezekiel was told to write down what he saw.

Ezekiel 10:10 (GW)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] All four wheels looked the same. Each was like a wheel within a wheel.


And here is what I think Ezekiel was looking at, not have ANY idea what it was:

 

[JesusIsAll]

Still, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years. This is very explicit, not weapons something visionary the writer can't get a handle on, and the weapons are being burnt with fire. This isn't how one get's rid of a tank or anything metal. In the course of getting rid of just the ancient weapons mentioned, they would be gotten rid of and also be fuel. This fits, without molestation, leaving a hole in modern eschatology of the apocalypse which places this battle in, for instance, the tribulation period. Problems, problems, if you can't talk yourself into explanations that "also ran."

 

[VCO]

Still, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years. This is very explicit, not weapons something visionary the writer can't get a handle on, and the weapons are being burnt with fire. This isn't how one get's rid of a tank or anything metal. In the course of getting rid of just the ancient weapons mentioned, they would be gotten rid of and also be fuel. This fits, without molestation, leaving a hole in modern eschatology of the apocalypse which places this battle in, for instance, the tribulation period. Problems, problems, if you can't talk yourself into explanations that "also ran."

NO, they are symbolism for what he is unable to name or describe in modern terms. Like I said spears and arrows are the missiles that Ezekial, could not possibly describe in modern terms.

Ezekiel
(v. 3); (2) their fall in death (vv. 4, 5); (3) the gorging of birds and beasts on the corpses (v. 4); (4) fire sent also on others besides the army (v. 6); and (5) the burning of weapons by Israelites (vv. 9, 10).39:1 Gog. See note on 38:2. The Gog and Magog assault in Revelation 20:7-9 at the end of the Millennium is another assault on Jerusalem patterned after certain images of the invasion here (chs. 38; 39), but it is a distinct event one thousand years after the Millennial kingdom begins. See note on Revelation 20:8, 9.
39:9, 10 burn the weapons. There is enough equipment to provide fuel for seven years.
39:9 seven years. A vast army (cf. “many,” 38:15) would have much weaponry, requiring seven years to burn. Since this likely occurs at the end of the time of Tribulation, synonymous with the battle of Armageddon (Rev. 16:16; 19:19-21), the burials would extend into the millennial kingdom.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

The aftermath of the battle ​

39:9-20

​

39:9-11. Those who will come to plunder Israel (38:12) will themselves be plundered. Israelites will use the fallen soldiers' weapons for fuel... for seven years. Should the weapons of war—horses, swords, shields... bows... arrows... clubs... and spears (38:4-5; 39:9)—be understood literally or do they refer figuratively to modern-day weaponry? The text itself can allow for both interpretations, but the normal meaning of the words would lead one to see Ezekiel referring to literal horses, etc. With the other worldwide catastrophes evident during the first three and one-half years of Daniel's 70th Week (Matt. 24:6-8; Rev. 6), a reversion to more primitive methods of warfare might become possible.
.
Throughout the remainder of the Tribulation period and into the beginning of the Millennium, as Israel will be burning those weapons, she will not need to cut down trees. This will be an amazing reversal of Gog's fortunes. Israel will plunder those who plundered her and loot those who looted her.
.
After the battle Israel will also bury Gog's dead. The burials will take place in the valley of those who travel east toward the Sea. This translation is somewhat confusing as "toward" was supplied by the translators, and the "east" (qid̠mat) should be translated "on the east of" (cf. Gen. 2:14; 1 Sam. 13:5). The valley where Gog's army will be buried is "on the east side of" the Dead Sea (niv marg.) in what is today Jordan. The phrase "those who travel east" (hāʿōb̠erm) could be taken as a proper name. It might refer to the "mountains of Abarim" (hāʿăb̠ārm) east of the Dead Sea that Israel traversed on her way to the Promised Land (cf. Num. 33:48). If so, Gog's burial will be in the Valley of Abarim just across the Dead Sea from Israel proper in the land of Moab. Yet the burial will be in Israel because Israel controlled that area during some periods of her history (cf. 2 Sam. 8:2; Ps. 60:8).

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

As you can see, MacArthur, thinks like I do, that it is symbolism for what Ezekiel is unable to describe in modern terms. AND the professors at Dallas Theological Seminary, think it could be either way. I think that loss of modern technology on the Battlefield, would not happen quickly, even in a full scale nuclear war; and would be followed by decades of continuing use of leftover modern technological weapons, such as the pictured in the movie Mad Maxx. The SECOND improbability of that theory, is IF the whole world's armies, armed with only ancient weapons would have the intestinal fortitude, to take on JESUS CHRIST Himself. BUT with modern weapons and the delusion that the Antichrist is more powerful than Jesus Christ, they would have a LOT more foolish boldness to attempt to blow Christ out of the sky. Rev. 19 makes it VERY CLEAR that they know who they are coming to do battle with. While it does not say what it is, it says that GOD will give them a strong delusion so that they may believe the lie. Perhaps the delusion is, "CHRIST is an Alien and he was beamed up to a spaceship and not ascended into heaven like the Bible says."; thus they think HE is beatable with modern weapons.

HOW DEVIOUS, LYING, and DECEIVING will the Antichrist be? Remember, he will be a Satan possessed Dictator. Over the past three decades, I think we saw a very good example of that, and a lot of Europeans fell for it. A Pakistani Guru by the name of Lord Maitreya, (even my spell checker recognizes the name), repeatedly put out a major lie all over the world. That LIE was, "Christ is position and not a person. Nearly two thousand years ago Jesus of Nazarus held that position, NOW I DO. You have got to forget about Jesus of Nararus and follow me." That is the biggest lie since he said "You can become like God." It says the Antichrist will come with all power and wonders. THAT is the ability to do Miracles. Now with two or three generations that trust their eyes more than the Word of GOD, all he will have to do is a few miracles and the masses will follow him.

 

[JesusIsAll]

NO, they are symbolism for what he is unable to name or describe in modern terms. Like I said spears and arrows are the missiles that Ezekial, could not possibly describe in modern terms.

As you can see, MacArthur, thinks like I do, that it is symbolism for what Ezekiel is unable to describe in modern terms. AND the professors at Dallas Theological Seminary, think it could be either way. I think that loss of modern technology on the Battlefield, would not happen quickly, even in a full scale nuclear war; and would be followed by decades of continuing use of leftover modern technological weapons, such as the pictured in the movie Mad Maxx. The SECOND improbability of that theory, is IF the whole world's armies, armed with only ancient weapons would have the intestinal fortitude, to take on JESUS CHRIST Himself. BUT with modern weapons and the delusion that the Antichrist is more powerful than Jesus Christ, they would have a LOT more foolish boldness to attempt to blow Christ out of the sky. Rev. 19 makes it VERY CLEAR that they know who they are coming to do battle with. While it does not say what it is, it says that GOD will give them a strong delusion so that they may believe the lie. Perhaps the delusion is, "CHRIST is an Alien and he was beamed up to a spaceship and not ascended into heaven like the Bible says."; thus they think HE is beatable with modern weapons.

HOW DEVIOUS, LYING, and DECEIVING will the Antichrist be? Remember, he will be a Satan possessed Dictator. Over the past three decades, I think we saw a very good example of that, and a lot of Europeans fell for it. A Pakistani Guru by the name of Lord Maitreya, (even my spell checker recognizes the name), repeatedly put out a major lie all over the world. That LIE was, "Christ is position and not a person. Nearly two thousand years ago Jesus of Nazarus held that position, NOW I DO. You have got to forget about Jesus of Nararus and follow me." That is the biggest lie since he said "You can become like God." It says the Antichrist will come with all power and wonders. THAT is the ability to do Miracles. Now with two or three generations that trust their eyes more than the Word of GOD, all he will have to do is a few miracles and the masses will follow him.

Not saying what is true or not, as, if I knew, I wouldn't still be curious, duh! <-- i.e., me. So I'm not saying anybody is wrong in such a thing, when I'm in the wilderness. But I can't, personally, accept the modern weapons symbolism here, as the weapons are not strained descriptions, as one trying to describe some modern monstrosity without a name, rather just the stuff an ancient warrior hauled around, and burnable. I'm unable to accept symbolism, for the same reason I'd not allegorize the Bible away, do what I'd sorely criticize others doing, can't really ever say, myself, what I see stated in a very literal fashion in scripture must be made symbolic, to match other doctrinal prejudices. I thank you very much for your thoughts, though, yet fear I'll never be content with any answer to this, never believe I had a correct interpretation to offer anybody on this. I have difficulty having confidence in anything without a clear, precise fit, and can't throw out or massage the data. Not you, but many do this out there, with outlandish, fantasy exegesis, from hell, rampant anymore, people in our day making whatever they wish of the Bible, and it's error, a total waste, if it's not truth. How could I criticize this, if I did it myself? I will rethink this modern weapons thing more, have a list of translated symbols on my computer somewhere I recall being unimpressive, but encouraged you seem to have some comfort in it, could find merit, that is some certainty, perhaps I missed.

 

[VCO]

highlighted above was your response that they WILL HAVE TO BE MARTYRED...though in your other statement referring to the tribulation saints that they are believer that Christ saved them...

as pointed out to you...the apostles were martyred and there is no difference if some were martyred today or in the future... All believer shall be saved...and we are members of that one body...today or even in the future...
thus separating them is separating other members of the body. . .

I have to address this a little more, and maybe you are just NOT GOING TO UNDERSTAND ME. The Church-age Saints are Called Out to go to Heaven BEFORE Antichrist comes on the scene. Yes those saved in the Tribulation Period have to become become martyred saints, ONLY BECAUSE, there is NO Second Rapture, and they HAVE to reject the Mark of the Beast, causing them to be martyred. Everyone who accepts the Mark of the Beast will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. AND I believe every person saved during the Tribulation Period will be beheaded at the orders of the Antichrist, with the only exception being the 144,000 Jews sealed from harm during the Tribulation. Where on Earth did you ever get the idea that when someone is talking about Martyrdom that they are talking Salvation? ONLY the Blood of Christ cleanses us from sin.