Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[crossnote]

Okay I will go through the whole of Zechariah again before I reply to your previous post, although I'd say plainly DOES say that God broke His covenant with the physical Israel (why I say this - because even the poor of the flock were "fed for slaughter" - meaning the Remnant was not spared from punishment over Israel, although they embraced Jesus).
What kaylagrl notices, that Israel prospers still, is I believe due to generational blessing over them that God would not cancel.
Blessing is not due to the Remnant because Zech 11 plainly says that even the poor of the flock would not be spared.
We do agree that they will come to full repentance sometime in the future and be restored (yes the physical Israel).

He does break or better discontinue the conditional Mosaic covenant for a better new covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

...and they shall be my people.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Amen Crossnote. Praised God!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay I will go through the whole of Zechariah again before I reply to your previous post, although I'd say plainly DOES say that God broke His covenant with the physical Israel (why I say this - because even the poor of the flock were "fed for slaughter" - meaning the Remnant was not spared from punishment over Israel, although they embraced Jesus).
What kaylagrl notices, that Israel prospers still, is I believe due to generational blessing over them that God would not cancel.
Blessing is not due to the Remnant because Zech 11 plainly says that even the poor of the flock would not be spared.
We do agree that they will come to full repentance sometime in the future and be restored (yes the physical Israel).

Yes, but look at Zeck 11, with Lev 26. God said he would do all that, it was not new, And Israel was warned when they were first made a nation in their land.

Zech 11: [SUP]6 [/SUP]For I will no longer pity the inhabitants of the land,” says the Lord. “But indeed I will give everyone into his neighbor’s hand and into the hand of his king. They shall attack the land, and I will not deliver them from their hand.”

Lev 26:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
[SUP]28 [/SUP]then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;

and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.

[SUP]32[/SUP]I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.

[SUP]33 [/SUP]I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i think we can see from the above, this is exactly what happened in AD 70.

Now look what God promised to do after that, If Israel repent.


Lev 26:[SUP]40 [/SUP]‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me, [SUP]41 [/SUP]and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
[SUP]42 [/SUP]then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember; I will remember the land.



[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God.

[SUP]
45 [/SUP]But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:

I am the Lord.’”



And take this with Zech 12:

[SUP]0 [/SUP]“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. [SUP]11 [/SUP]In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem,

then look at 13 and 14, the restoration continues.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Okay gratefull, I copied all you posted into my notepad. Looking into that now with whole book of Zechariah (will take some time to get back to it).

 

[SarahM777]

If as you say Jesus is reigning now and the kingdom of God is here now - why in the Lord's prayer are we to pray - "Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"? His will is definitely not being done on earth . . .

When he rules with a "rod of iron", he will not allow things to get out of line and do the kinds of hurtful things countless people today are doing. There would be peace on earth, with no war, no sickness, no injustice, no danger from the elements or from wild animals - "In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. . . . The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He will judge the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war any more". (Isaiah 2:2,3b,4; Isaiah 11:1-9)

God chose Israel as the people from whose bloodline the Redeemer would come; at his first coming to the earth He was rejected as their king, he suffered and died; [the suffering servant] but he will come again - this time as the conquering king, ruling with a "rod of iron" [not as a simple shepherd but as one with the mark of authority (one of the definitions for rod - truncheon, scepter - mark of authority)] and rule for 1000 years after the 1000 years "all things will be in subjection under him". Right now Jesus is "Lord", highly exalted by God (Phil. 2:8-11). He is the "head of the body" of Christ, the Church. In a sense, he is the "king" of our heart as we humble ourselves and allow him as "Lord" to lead and guide us.

Until you understand the NATURE of the Kingdom,you CAN NOT understand those passages. The Israelites of Jesus day did the same. They misunderstood the nature of the kingdom.

You are aware that they DID try to make Jesus an EARTHLY King.

John 6

[h=3][/h]6 Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias), [SUP]2 [/SUP]and a great crowd of people followed him because they saw the signs he had performed by healing the sick. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then Jesus went up on a mountainside and sat down with his disciples. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The Jewish Passover Festival was near.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When Jesus looked up and saw a great crowd coming toward him, he said to Philip, “Where shall we buy bread for these people to eat?” [SUP]6 [/SUP]He asked this only to test him, for he already had in mind what he was going to do.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Philip answered him, “It would take more than half a year’s wages[SUP][a][/SUP] to buy enough bread for each one to have a bite!”
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Another of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, spoke up, [SUP]9 [/SUP]“Here is a boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish, but how far will they go among so many?”
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” There was plenty of grass in that place, and they sat down (about five thousand men were there). [SUP]11 [/SUP]Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When they had all had enough to eat, he said to his disciples, “Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]So they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” [SUP]15 [/SUP]Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

 

[SarahM777]

yep.

and when did he smite the nations?

And what about this passage?


Ps 2:
Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”

Sound alot like the last 2000 years...

[SUP]4 [/SUP]He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”

Where did he set up his king? In Heaven?? Or on Mt Zion?




[SUP]7 [/SUP]“I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]You shall break[SUP][a][/SUP] them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’”

Seems prety clear to me.

So are you saying you CAN NOT come to the heavenly Mount Zion now? Are you saying you can not at this time come before His throne? Are you saying that you are NOT a royal Nation? Are you saying that Jesus DID NOT sit at the right hand of the Father?

 

[SarahM777]

yep.

and when did he smite the nations?

And what about this passage?


Ps 2:
Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”

Sound alot like the last 2000 years...

[SUP]4 [/SUP]He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”

Where did he set up his king? In Heaven?? Or on Mt Zion?




[SUP]7 [/SUP]“I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]You shall break[SUP][a][/SUP] them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’”

Seems prety clear to me.

The onus is on you all to show that ANY of the apostles understood a restored physical kingdom AFTER Jesus ascended into heaven. How did the apostles who were inspired by the Holy Spirit MISS IT? Never mind the fact that the VERY same day Jesus ascended into Heaven THEY WERE STILL looking for the physical Kingdom,and yet somehow they NEVER mention a physical kingdom again. How is that even possible? How is it they MISSED Israel being once again being restored to the land?
You forget they were of ISRAEL and it was IMPORTANT to them. The onus is on you to show that they STILL understood it to be a PHYSICAL KINGDOM.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Until you understand the NATURE of the Kingdom,you CAN NOT understand those passages. The Israelites of Jesus day did the same. They misunderstood the nature of the kingdom.

You are aware that they DID try to make Jesus an EARTHLY King.

Yeah they did, Because like Satan himself. It was hidden from them. Until God opened their eyes AFTER he rose from the dead.

They (like Jews do today) did not realise messiah must be "cut off" or killed, as Daniel 9 Says, which is why they reject daniel as scripture

They did not realize the suffering servant and the messiah were one and the same.

They did not realise the "mystery" which paul spoke of, and How God was going to bless the gentiles FIRST before setting up his kingdom.

What good is a peace of land and peace if no one in it is going to heaven? they did not realise the problem of sin must be taken care of first.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The onus is on you all to show that ANY of the apostles understood a restored physical kingdom AFTER Jesus ascended into heaven. How did the apostles who were inspired by the Holy Spirit MISS IT? Never mind the fact that the VERY same day Jesus ascended into Heaven THEY WERE STILL looking for the physical Kingdom,and yet somehow they NEVER mention a physical kingdom again. How is that even possible? How is it they MISSED Israel being once again being restored to the land?
You forget they were of ISRAEL and it was IMPORTANT to them. The onus is on you to show that they STILL understood it to be a PHYSICAL KINGDOM.

romans 11.

The GIFTS of God are irrevocable. All Israel will be saved, etc etc.. ps. the land of Canaan was a GIFT of God to a select group of people.

John (rev) He will rule for 1000 years, on davids throne.

The apostles understood it clearly. but the topic was not on their priority list. is it not more important to get the message of the gospel out, and show people the new covenant. The land GIFT was not needed to be tought on much, why? the people were in sin, and they had the OT prophets to show them what was real (now that it was shown)

unfortunately, some people fail to head the warning of paul, and are wise in their own opinion.

 

[SoulWeaver]

unfortunately, some people fail to head the warning of paul, and are wise in their own opinion.

Let us not do that anymore on this thread. We all belong to Jesus.

 

[SarahM777]

Yeah they did, Because like Satan himself. It was hidden from them. Until God opened their eyes AFTER he rose from the dead.

They (like Jews do today) did not realise messiah must be "cut off" or killed, as Daniel 9 Says, which is why they reject daniel as scripture

They did not realize the suffering servant and the messiah were one and the same.

They did not realise the "mystery" which paul spoke of, and How God was going to bless the gentiles FIRST before setting up his kingdom.

What good is a peace of land and peace if no one in it is going to heaven? they did not realise the problem of sin must be taken care of first.

So then please explain why then they MUST receive the promise of the land IN UNBELIEF if MOST are not going to enter heaven? Isn't that EXACTLY what you all say,when you say MOST of them will be destroyed WHILE IN THE LAND again?

 

[SarahM777]

romans 11.

The GIFTS of God are irrevocable. All Israel will be saved, etc etc.. ps. the land of Canaan was a GIFT of God to a select group of people.

John (rev) He will rule for 1000 years, on davids throne.

The apostles understood it clearly. but the topic was not on their priority list. is it not more important to get the message of the gospel out, and show people the new covenant. The land GIFT was not needed to be tought on much, why? the people were in sin, and they had the OT prophets to show them what was real (now that it was shown)

unfortunately, some people fail to head the warning of paul, and are wise in their own opinion.

Sorry EG,

You are putting your own spin on it. You are putting words and thoughts into the text that are NOT their. It is an assumption. And do you know what it means to assume?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry EG,

You are putting your own spin on it. You are putting words and thoughts into the text that are NOT their. It is an assumption. And do you know what it means to assume?

No, It is not an assumption, It is a fact.

Your the one spining.

Gods gifts (land and all) are irrevocable. what else could this mean? What twist are you going to put on this?? to make your belief come true?

either take it literally for what it says, or reject it, and make paul (and God) out to be a liar. and you can include all the lieing OT prophets in there.

I do not get how someone taking the word of God literally can be called a spinner. Amazing.

The choice is up to you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So then please explain why then they MUST receive the promise of the land IN UNBELIEF

Show me where myself or anyone has ever said they will recieve the promise of the return in unbelief.

You people keep saying this, but you never have any proof. so please prove we have been saying this (even the OT prophets we have been posting do not say this)

if MOST are not going to enter heaven? Isn't that EXACTLY what you all say,when you say MOST of them will be destroyed WHILE IN THE LAND again?

in the land again destroyed?

Again who ever said this, are you even listening to what we are saying?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let us not do that anymore on this thread. We all belong to Jesus.

forgive me,

but when people time and time again say you believ in something that you do not, and when their only argument against you is something you are not even saying, it gets frustrating, especially with some who have been doing this for over a year.

but your right, I need to be more humble.

 

[SarahM777]

[/COLOR]
Show me where myself or anyone has ever said they will recieve the promise of the return in unbelief.

You people keep saying this, but you never have any proof. so please prove we have been saying this (even the OT prophets we have been posting do not say this)



in the land again destroyed?

Again who ever said this, are you even listening to what we are saying?

Isn't that what you say about what the regathering in the land now is? You can't have it both ways. On one hand you say they will not be regathered and yet on the hand you AGREE that Israel IS at the same time being regathered in the land. So which is it? Please explain if they are not regathered in the land they HOW IS IT POSSIBLE for them to sign a seven year peace treaty? How is it possible for them to rebuild the temple if they are NOT regathered in the land? And when they do this are they in BELIEF or UNBELIEF?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Isn't that what you say about what the regathering in the land now is?

I have never said anything about the gathering of the land now. About all I have ever said is Jerusalem is still in ruins, and still trampled by gentiles. What is over there now has nothing to do with the regathers, and I have said many times, there are still more jews in the US and other places than in Israel.

Talk about assuming.

You can't have it both ways. On one hand you say they will not be regathered and yet on the hand you AGREE that Israel IS at the same time being regathered in the land. So which is it? Please explain if they are not regathered in the land they HOW IS IT POSSIBLE for them to sign a seven year peace treaty? How is it possible for them to rebuild the temple if they are NOT regathered in the land? And when they do this are they in BELIEF or UNBELIEF?

so which is it? Show me where I have ever stated Israel is regathered now. You have a few years of posts between us, show me one. you will never find it,

That is what people do not get, they assume people believe things and do not even ask.

 

[SarahM777]

[/COLOR]I have never said anything about the gathering of the land now. About all I have ever said is Jerusalem is still in ruins, and still trampled by gentiles. What is over there now has nothing to do with the regathers, and I have said many times, there are still more jews in the US and other places than in Israel.

Talk about assuming.



so which is it? Show me where I have ever stated Israel is regathered now. You have a few years of posts between us, show me one. you will never find it,

That is what people do not get, they assume people believe things and do not even ask.

You never answered the question. The question is and was How is it possible for them to be in the land,sign a seven year peace treaty,rebuild the temple and that first not being a regathering,and second are they in BELIEF or UNBELIEF when this happens? You have said the temple WILL be rebuilt and they will sign peace treaty with the antichrist. How is that POSSIBLE if they are not in the land? And if they are in the land HOW IS THAT NOT A REGATHERING?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You never answered the question. The question is and was How is it possible for them to be in the land,sign a seven year peace treaty,rebuild the temple and that first not being a regathering,and second are they in BELIEF or UNBELIEF when this happens? You have said the temple WILL be rebuilt and they will sign peace treaty with the antichrist. How is that POSSIBLE if they are not in the land? And if they are in the land HOW IS THAT NOT A REGATHERING?

there you go twisting again..

1. The total restoration will not occur until the end, when Christ returns. (all the prophets state this quite clearly)
2. You tell me. how can those things occur without Israel beinig at least partly in the land.
3. How is number 2 a regathering? Is their peace, Is Jerusalem in the hands of God? You read all the things I posted aboout the regathering and restoration. Show me where any of those things are occuring now

you can not call a partial regathering a restoration. they are not even close to being the same