Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[Brainfreeze]

Make a thread on it. I'll give you a couple of scriptures or so there

Don't need a thread Ms. Bride, I get it, with what was written.

 

[JimmieD]

ok, then what about everything else it says, or were you just talking about one aspect?

I was responding to another poster on this thread. Yes, there were multiple promises made to Abraham: he would be the father of a great nation, he would be the father of many nations, that he would be granted land, the earth would be blessed through him, and first century Jews believed that the promises to Abraham included a promise of inheritance to the entire world, not just a small tract of land.

But yes, I was responding to a specific post on this thread.

 

[crossnote]

They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.
(Rom 9:4)

Do you want to put that in CONTEXT?

Romans 9

9 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— [SUP]2 [/SUP]I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, [SUP]4 [/SUP]the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised![SUP][a][/SUP] Amen.
God’s Sovereign Choice

[SUP]6 [/SUP]It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”[SUP][c][/SUP]
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: [SUP]12 [/SUP]not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]13 [/SUP]Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[SUP][e][/SUP]
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! [SUP]15 [/SUP]For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[SUP][f][/SUP]

[SUP]16 [/SUP]It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” [SUP]20 [/SUP]But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[SUP][h][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? [SUP]23 [/SUP]What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— [SUP]24 [/SUP]even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? [SUP]25 [/SUP]As he says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”[SUP][i][/SUP]

[SUP]26 [/SUP]and,
“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”[SUP][j][/SUP]

[SUP]27 [/SUP]Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:
“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For the Lord will carry out
his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”[SUP][k][/SUP]

[SUP]29 [/SUP]It is just as Isaiah said previously:
“Unless the Lord Almighty
had left us descendants,
we would have become like Sodom,
we would have been like Gomorrah.”[SUP][l][/SUP]

Israel’s Unbelief

[SUP]30 [/SUP]What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; [SUP]31 [/SUP]but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. [SUP]33 [/SUP]As it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[SUP][m][/SUP]

The context is that Romans was written about 60AD and Paul is saying then "unto them belong ...the promises" PRESENT TENSE. Paul did not say "unto them belonged". No where has that fact changed except in the imaginations of men.

SarahM, I hope you realize by now I don't respond in full to long posts due to time constraints.

 

[JesusIsAll]

So, 63 pages on, what's the denouement at this juncture? People generally realize God's a Zionist and is not finished with Israel, because that's what it says all over the Bible, or are people getting measured for their Waffen-SS uniforms, in the name of Christ, for some peculiar reason?

 

[crossnote]

So, 63 pages on, what's the denouement at this juncture? People generally realize God's a Zionist and is not finished with Israel, because that's what it says all over the Bible, or are people getting measured for their Waffen-SS uniforms, in the name of Christ, for some peculiar reason?

hehe some are also picking up their Crusader's swords to go join Zwingli in his land acquisition.

 

[jahsoul]

Talk to God about the "stretchin" . . . I didn't do the "stretchin"!

To Abraham - . . .unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:1-3

Genesis 17:2,4,6-8 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. . . As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. . . .And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

To Isaac [Abraham's natural descendant] - Genesis 26:3,4 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

To Jacob [Isaac's natural descendant] - Genesis 28:13,14 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

And Jacob's name was changed to Israel and he begot the twelve tribes - the twelve tribes of Israel - the Israelites.

Hi mspeaceful,

Again, why does he specifically say you in Genesis 12:2-3 but later in the same chapter, God then specifically tells Abram

“To your offspring I will give this land.”

If it is assumed that God was talking about Abram's decendents earlier in the chapter, why would God has to specify "offspring" a few verses down. Wouldn't God have just said, "To you I will give this land?"

 

[jahsoul]

So, 63 pages on, what's the denouement at this juncture? People generally realize God's a Zionist and is not finished with Israel, because that's what it says all over the Bible, or are people getting measured for their Waffen-SS uniforms, in the name of Christ, for some peculiar reason?

Actually, this is the first time that I've read that God is a Zionist.

Secondly, I see you have NO clue what Zionism is. If God is a Zionist, why would he choose an atheist as the human visionary? How could Zionist differentiate their movement and religion, but "christian zionist" can't?

You might want to do a little research on this topic.

 

[JesusIsAll]

hehe some are also picking up their Crusader's swords to go join Zwingli in his land acquisition.

That's one way to beat the realtor's commission. There was that comedian guy, to paraphrase, "Are the Jews the problem, or is it SATAN?!!!"

 

[SarahM777]

The context is that Romans was written about 60AD and Paul is saying then "unto them belong ...the promises" PRESENT TENSE. Paul did not say "unto them belonged". No where has that fact changed except in the imaginations of men.

SarahM, I hope you realize by now I don't respond in full to long posts due to time constraints.

You LEFT out Verses 7-10,where Paul speaks of WHO Israel is.

Not surprised that many will not,we have become a SOUND BITE GENERATION. If can't be said in 15 seconds or less forget about it. Never mind that way leaves out way too much.

 

[SarahM777]

The context is that Romans was written about 60AD and Paul is saying then "unto them belong ...the promises" PRESENT TENSE. Paul did not say "unto them belonged". No where has that fact changed except in the imaginations of men.

SarahM, I hope you realize by now I don't respond in full to long posts due to time constraints.

If you had even taken a CASUAL LOOK you would have seen that the post was the CONTEXT of Romans 9. Which was basically the WHOLE POST was Romans 9. Which goes back to the whole point of HOW many of you ACTUALLY READ WHAT IS BEING SAID?

 

[SarahM777]

and you wonder why people keep getting so upset!

People will often get upset because they don't like the truth. Remember the prophets,Jesus and the apostles were all HATED for speaking the truth.

 

[SarahM777]

I think what makes us so angry is people curse jews, but never say a word about the other people who are just as bad (as the unbelieving jews) It just goes to prove the hatred people have against this nation, (at least in my mind)

we need to love everyone, and give them the gospel. Hating someone will never lead them to Christ.

God said we are to love our enemies, Far to many times I do not see that in here,

The difference is that NO CHRISTIAN would bind themselves with UNBELIEVERS in the same manner as they do with UNBELIEVING ISRAEL. Unbelieving Israel ARE THE ONLY ONES that are UNTOUCHABLE to many Christians. They can do no wrong. Many have gotten to the point that they believe that UNBELIEVING ISRAEL CAN BE SAVED JUST ON THEIR HERITAGE. Never mind that Moses,the prophets,Jesus and the apostles made a DISTINCTION between believing Israel and UNBELIEVING Israel.

 

[keepitsimple]

The difference is that NO CHRISTIAN would bind themselves with UNBELIEVERS in the same manner as they do with UNBELIEVING ISRAEL. Unbelieving Israel ARE THE ONLY ONES that are UNTOUCHABLE to many Christians. They can do no wrong. Many have gotten to the point that they believe that UNBELIEVING ISRAEL CAN BE SAVED JUST ON THEIR HERITAGE. Never mind that Moses,the prophets,Jesus and the apostles made a DISTINCTION between believing Israel and UNBELIEVING Israel.

It's called "hedging their bets" (playing it safe) ... "I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee" ... and not understanding who the Israel of God truly is ... i.e. ... the body of believers.

 

[jahsoul]

It's called "hedging their bets" (playing it safe) ... "I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee" ... and not understanding who the Israel of God truly is ... i.e. ... the body of believers.

SMH @ the work of Scofield

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The context is that Romans was written about 60AD and Paul is saying then "unto them belong ...the promises" PRESENT TENSE. Paul did not say "unto them belonged". No where has that fact changed except in the imaginations of men.

SarahM, I hope you realize by now I don't respond in full to long posts due to time constraints.

paul proved what he said in romans 11..The gifts and calling of God are irrevocatble (they never end) This those people are beloeved because of the fathers. even though theu are enemies concerning the gospel.

In spite of all of the replacement theologian sympathies and tries. Gods promises still stand.

Rom 9 proves to the world (and Israel) that salvation is of the jews, through Christ, however, being a jew did not get you an automatic in, and it was always available to everyone (jew and gentile) Rom 11 proves the promise given them were not salvic, and still stand.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, this is the first time that I've read that God is a Zionist.

Secondly, I see you have NO clue what Zionism is. If God is a Zionist, why would he choose an atheist as the human visionary? How could Zionist differentiate their movement and religion, but "christian zionist" can't?

You might want to do a little research on this topic.

or we might realise what real zionism is and means, as compared to modern day zionists who are antichrist.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You LEFT out Verses 7-10,where Paul speaks of WHO Israel is.

Not surprised that many will not,we have become a SOUND BITE GENERATION. If can't be said in 15 seconds or less forget about it. Never mind that way leaves out way too much.

You left out chapter 11. Where Paul lets us know who Israel is (blinded in part, cut off, natural branches, enemies of the gospel. yet beloved by the promises, elect etc etc.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

We will see how long it takes this thread to dissolve into mayhem.I dont know whether Ive been misunderstood or people just dont believe what God said about Israel. Ive been accused of being the devil over what I believe here and being an immature Christian or not one at all.So I will try to be clear here and maybe I can be restored the way Israel will be in the end.
To those who have called me all forms of evil,not a Christian and immature here is my background and where Im coming from so you can know I am a Christian even though I may not agree with your view of the Bible.I was raised in a Pentecostal church all my life I asked Jesus into my heard at 7yrs old.At around 10yrs I felt a calling on my life to maybe be a missionary.By 16yrs of age my family began travelling as a gospel group.I traveled to hundreds of chruches over 20yrs. We went to Baptist,Wesleyan,Pentecostal,Catholic,Nazarene and every church in between sharing the gospel through song.Ive heard more sermons then you can shake a stick at. Discussed with more pastors then most will ever meet.Am I bragging on myself? No,I like Paul,have no room to boast.Ive lost my way at times and certainly have done wrong.But to those who have defamed my character and called me both antiChrist and unchristian there is my background.Not to boast but for folks to understand where I come from.
Now I was raised very strictly by my parents on several things.One being that the Jews are Gods chosen people.To bless them is to be blessed and to curse them is to be cursed.Is Israel perfect in everything it does? No,none of us are perfect until we reach heaven.That being said Israel is not a terrorist country.I believe we should be very careful as to how we speak of Israel and the Jews.Dont think so?Look at all the countries that kicked out the Jews and how they were punished for it.Many of the countries dont even exist today.
Before I get blamed for a wall of text I will start with these Scriptures...


Gen 12 ...Now [SUP]a[/SUP]the LORD said to Abram, " [SUP]1[/SUP]Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;And [SUP]a[/SUP]I will make you a great nation, And [SUP]b[/SUP]I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;And [SUP]a[/SUP]I will bless those who bless you, And the one who [SUP]1[/SUP]curses you I will [SUP]2[/SUP]curse. [SUP]b[/SUP]And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."Abram passed through the land as far as the site of [SUP]a[/SUP]Shechem, to the [SUP]1[/SUP]oak of Moreh. Now the Canaanite was then in the land.The LORD [SUP]a[/SUP]appeared to Abram and said, " [SUP]b[/SUP]To your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants I will give this land." So he built [SUP]c[/SUP]an altar there to the LORD who had appeared to him.


Gen 15...It came about when the sun had set, that it was very dark, and behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a flaming torch which [SUP]a[/SUP]passed between these pieces.On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, " [SUP]a[/SUP]To your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants I have given this land, From [SUP]b[/SUP]the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:[SUP]a[/SUP]the Kenite and the Kenizzite and the Kadmonite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Rephaim and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Girgashite and the Jebusite."

Gen 17..."I will [SUP]1[/SUP]establish My [SUP]a[/SUP]covenant between Me and you, And I will [SUP]b[/SUP]multiply you exceedingly."Abram [SUP]a[/SUP]fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying,"As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a [SUP]a[/SUP]multitude of nations."No longer shall your name be called [SUP]1[/SUP]Abram, But [SUP]a[/SUP]your name shall be [SUP]2[/SUP]Abraham; For [SUP]b[/SUP]I have made you the father of a multitude of nations."I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and [SUP]a[/SUP]kings will come forth from you.
"I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants after you throughout their generations for an [SUP]EVERLASTING[/SUP] covenant, [SUP]b[/SUP]to be God to you and [SUP]c[/SUP]to your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants after you.
" [SUP]a[/SUP]I will give to you and to your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and [SUP]b[/SUP]I will be their God."......
But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you [SUP]a[/SUP]a son, and you shall call his name [SUP]1[/SUP]Isaac; and [SUP]b[/SUP]I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his [SUP]2[/SUP]descendants after him.
"As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and [SUP]a[/SUP]will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. [SUP]b[/SUP]He shall [SUP]1[/SUP]become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a [SUP]c[/SUP]great nation
But My covenant I will establish with Issac.

Here we see the beginning of Gods covenant with Abraham.And to the land and peoples of Israel.He said he would establish his covenant with Issac!! I will leave the post for now and continue a bit later to prove Israel is still under Gods covenant and the Jews his chosen people.I will not be answering anyone who name calls,is rude or tries to "rebuke" me because they disagree.If you disagree you disagree with Scripture not me. I'm quoting Gods Words not mine.So lets be Christlike in our discussion.Thank you all and have a blessed day.

I love the knee jerk part about your parents! (;-0)=(
We were all taught things by our parents or grandparents that was just not true!
These things do not supersede the unveiled Scripture,
so it reminds me of a lot of things I was told by mine, and i still love them dearly!


The Apostle Paul, answered this question several different times when he made the statement,
'...there are no more Jew or Gentile.....' pertaining to the kingdom of God!

This is a phrase that means something, and it is Scripture also!
Paul was preaching the Gospel to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles!
Because, Why?

Both, the Jew and the Gentiles would be no more after 70ad,
which had not arrived yet at the times of his letter's
where as in these letters were found this phrase!

....there are no more Jew or Gentile...
Meaning:
....there are no more Jew (of God's chosen people status),.
or Gentile (who were Israel's enemy from Adam to Adam).....

But there is still a ...'Covenant Israel'...! To bless and to curse! Who is it?
New Covenant Israel, the church or Light that is set upon a hill...!
The Light or Church in the wilderness was fast fading away and would be no more!

This is the 2nd phase of Covenant Israel!
Which would include those who go by the name of Jews,
who are a part of (or not), of the New Jewish State of Israel,
and have come unto the Gospel of Jesus and repented!

These people, the Jew, chose their religion Judaism over their Messiah!
They were cut off from the promises of their 'chosen people' status
and cast out of the kingdom of God where they are to this very day,
now 1900 and some years plus!

This status ended with Jesus' death and His fulfilling of the Feast yr of the Lord in 30ad
There are no more righteous lines of Jews that pass Jesus!
That is why they were preached the Gospel for 40 yr.,
because after that the Old way in Adam was made obsolete!
That means that it does not exist anymore upon this earth, ever!

Paul using the phrase ....all of Israel will be saved..... borrowed from the Old Testament, SCRIPTURE'S,
was speaking of the dead in Adam, in Sheol in 'Abraham's Bosom',
which were not Resurrected form the dead yet, back in 60ad;
It had nothing what-so-ever to do with the
21st century Zionist Jews that are gathering in the
New Jewish State of Israel!

...there is NO MORE JEW or GENTILE....

there is no more Gentiles!!!!!!!!
Jesus announced to Israel of His own day that the ...times of the Gentiles were upon them....

They became very angry at Jesus and demanded that He give them a sign,
Jesus told them.. that He would give them no sign accept Jonah!

They knew nothing of His fixing to suffer on a cross & 3 days and nights in Sheol,
but they understood Jonah's preaching to the Gentiles and their being saved into the Kingdom,
that they were also told by Jesus that they (the Jew of Chosen people status)
were being cast out of because they did not know the hour of their visitation.
Because thy said '....CRUCIFY HIM!....'
....let His blood be upon our children and our children's children.......

The status of the chosen people of God was being transferred,
to .....the Jew first... and then all others who would be found crucified in Christ Jesus!

So, I reject in a Christ like manner,
that the Jews anytime after 70ad as being of, or called the chosen people of God!
.....There are no more Jew or Gentile.....
...there are no more Jew or Gentile....
Which part of this Scripture do you not understand?
respectfully! t ray

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People will often get upset because they don't like the truth. Remember the prophets,Jesus and the apostles were all HATED for speaking the truth.

Well forgive me if being continually told you believe something which is not true (which would not be truth, but a lie and bearing false witness) is not the same as being hated for the truth.

I am not angry for my own sake, I know what I beieve, and have studied years to get to where I am, I may change things, if someone can show me where I have been wrong, I am angry at people who are deceived, and saddened for those who may buy into their lie, and can not see how they are bearing false witness of others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The difference is that NO CHRISTIAN would bind themselves with UNBELIEVERS in the same manner as they do with UNBELIEVING ISRAEL. Unbelieving Israel ARE THE ONLY ONES that are UNTOUCHABLE to many Christians. They can do no wrong. Many have gotten to the point that they believe that UNBELIEVING ISRAEL CAN BE SAVED JUST ON THEIR HERITAGE. Never mind that Moses,the prophets,Jesus and the apostles made a DISTINCTION between believing Israel and UNBELIEVING Israel.

is this so? Who is binding with unbelieving Israel? Has Crossnote,? Myself or anyone else in here done this to cause this hate to happen??

Yet more false accusation, and more excuses to spread a hate of a people God will bless when they repent. yet more lies to promote yourself, and belittle others.