Cavemen?

[Straightshot]

"Now you can read that paper, and if you can refute it with real evidence you will be published. Until then, it proved humans share our ancestors with the other great apes"


Actually this concept proves nothing new

Flesh is flesh .... all the same .... different styles and applications

.... but humans are more than flesh

Something that you and your sources refuse to see

Let's ask the Creator about this .... and I would suggest that you take His advice .... if you don't, the results will be devastating


John
3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[john832]

Because there is not such a thing in existence that is credible.

Ah, the crux of the matter. You do not believe the Bible is credible. This may not be the right place for you, you might be better suited to some atheist forum.

 

[Stephen63]

Ah, the crux of the matter. You do not believe the Bible is credible. This may not be the right place for you, you might be better suited to some atheist forum.

Yep..... a troll by any other name is still a troll.

 

[JackH]

So you think by ignoring logic your ignorant stance is okay. Answer the question I asked. Do you believe in God? Do you believe in the bible? Do you doubt God's ability to create as He wishes? Why are you even on this forum?

Exactly what logic are you talking about?

Yes, I believe in God.

Yes, I believe in the Bible, with several caveats. There is no totally accurate Bible. If you say there is, please point it out to me.

Yes, I believe God has the ability to create as He wishes. You believe God could have created the Big Bang, right?

I am on this forum in the hope of learning something. That’s not easy, with all the mindless drivel being spouted. Occasionally it does happen (Thank you Dr. Hurd and a few others).

Okay, I answered your questions. Here’s mine:

In a previous post I questioned you saying that animals didn’t have a soul. Specifically, you said on the “Human beings are animals” thread that: “The soul is what sets us apart. We are the only carbon based life form endowed with a soul.”

That appears to contradict your favorite Bible. Numerous verses indicate that animals have a soul. What about also a spirit? Eccl 3:21: “Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?”

Now, what does this matter, with respect to this thread?

The very first post in this thread asks whether Neanderthal goes to heaven. I didn’t notice anybody answering that question. It would seem to me that an examination of soul and spirit might be the place to start in answering the question.

Unfortunately, we can’t even get past the matter of whether the earth is around 6,000 years old or around 4.54 billion years old on this thread, and others like it.

How can we then discuss a question that actually would require some intelligent critical thinking?

 

[john832]

I am on this forum in the hope of learning something. That’s not easy, with all the mindless drivel being spouted.

Hmmm, noticed that myself. Things like everything came from nothing and the second law of thermodynamics is suspended when we are discussing origins of life.

 

[Marian29]

Evolutionary scientists simply have a theory and end up forcing the evidence to fit their theory. Adam and Eve were the first humans and were created fully formed, intelligent and upright.
The Bible is very clear in saying how creation occurred and says nowhere that humans evolved from lower forms. To believe in pre-history, in my opinion, is to believe that the Bible word explanation about before man creation is not true.
I believe the restart of humanity after the Flood, can possibly be the closer we can get to a sense of 'caveman' life. But not half monkey half man.

 

[Straightshot]

"There is no totally accurate Bible. If you say there is, please point it out to me."


I say there is so I will point it out to you

Would the Lord leave a flawed testimony?

[Matthew 24:35; 2 Timothy 3:16; Revelation 22:18-19]

How about you pointing out the flaws to the forum

 

[JesusIsAll]

Evolutionary scientists simply have a theory and end up forcing the evidence to fit their theory. Adam and Eve were the first humans and were created fully formed, intelligent and upright.
The Bible is very clear in saying how creation occurred and says nowhere that humans evolved from lower forms. To believe in pre-history, in my opinion, is to believe that the Bible word explanation about before man creation is not true.
I believe the restart of humanity after the Flood, can possibly be the closer we can get to a sense of 'caveman' life. But not half monkey half man.

It's always been incredible, on close scrutiny, how very silly many of the fabrications are, not even in the realm of empirical science of any kind, rather fantasy extrapolations that reach to absurdity, like geological columns dated by fossils in them, fossils dated by the geologic column, something from nothing, transitional forms and their fraudulent bone fragments, junk "science" made up, wholesale. Living in such a glass house, you wonder where their intellectual integrity was lost, when they accuse God's word of being fantastic. But hate of God will make men do the most unreasonable and even horrible things. I've noticed, of the atheist trolls here, they're very deceptive at times, making clumsy pretenses of Bible knowledge and allegations they know things nobody here can understand, but for an authentic scientist to make such a claim is just like somebody here claiming a lock on scripture nobody else understands. Bottom line? They're wholly incapable of intelligently addressing the flaws in any of the major issues they base their entire belief system on.

 

[Cycel]

In a previous post I questioned you saying that animals didn’t have a soul. Specifically, you said on the “Human beings are animals” thread that: “The soul is what sets us apart. We are the only carbon based life form endowed with a soul.”

That appears to contradict your favorite Bible. Numerous verses indicate that animals have a soul. What about also a spirit? Eccl 3:21: “Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?”

Wow! I didn't know that was in the Bible. The verses that precede this one are even more informative:

I said in my heart with regard to human beings that God is testing them to show that they are but animals. For the fate of humans and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and humans have no advantage over the animals; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows whether the human spirit goes upward and the spirit of animals goes downward to the earth? (NOAB:Ecclesiastes 3:18-21)

Thanks for cluing me in Jack.

 

[Cycel]

The Bible is very clear in saying how creation occurred and says nowhere that humans evolved from lower forms. To believe in pre-history, in my opinion, is to believe that the Bible word explanation about before man creation is not true.

You do recognize that with the creation account that you are buying into a Bronze Age belief system?

 

[Percepi]

There's always one side debunking the other, even with the human chromosome fusion that supposedly separates us from chimps; Human Chromosome Fusion Debunked | Human Genetics, Human Origins, Human-Primate DNA | Designed DNA

From what I can tell, this bloke doesn't understand the difference between telomeres and centromeres. His argument is essentially that the centromeres should be the same as the telomeres, when that's not the case. It's the telomeres - the fused portion, that must match. And guess what, they do.

I like this part of the article: "

Chromosome fusions would not be expected to form complex multi-exon, alternatively spliced functional genes.​

"

This statement is a load of rubbish that really has no bearing on reality what-so-ever. Since this person is using scientific terminology, I'm sure he's dishonest rather than ignorant.

This is the bottom line for me; "Not one change of species into another is on record . . we cannot prove that a single species has been changed."—Charles Darwin, My Life and Letters.

Darwin never said this. If he did, please find the book, page, and paragraph and provide it to me.

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

This is the bottom line for me; "Not one change of species into another is on record . . we cannot prove that a single species has been changed."—Charles Darwin, My Life and Letters.

The "bottom line" is that Charles Darwin never wrote this. It is a popular lie told by creationists. It is "Quote Mine #82" in the TalkOrigin list of false quotes: Quote Mine Project: "Miscellaneous"
There is further information: TalkOrigins Archive - Feedback for October 2003

And these commonly repeated lies are a major reason to doubt anything any creationist says.

 

[Dan58]

Darwin never said this. If he did, please find the book, page, and paragraph and provide it to me.

The "bottom line" is that Charles Darwin never wrote this. It is a popular lie told by creationists. It is "Quote Mine #82" in the TalkOrigin list of false quotes: Quote Mine Project: "Miscellaneous"
There is further information: TalkOrigins Archive - Feedback for October 2003

Sorry about that, I just found the quote on a site. Ya just can't trust anything you find on the internet these days.

I reckon the debate will continue until we see a monkey turn into a man or we witness the return of Christ. If I weren't a Christian, evolution would no doubt seem semi-logical, but I'm just not quite ready to trash my bible in favor of a theory . There was a more recent study of Foraminiferida, which revealed the best case for evolution yet, but imo, minor changes in shell shape does not equate to a new species, they're still forams. article 8

 

[nl]

This hat fits many. At times, I have worn it myself (not literally but figuratively).

 

[john832]

Sorry about that, I just found the quote on a site. Ya just can't trust anything you find on the internet these days.

You know, you are absolutely right about that. Why, just the other day I read that primordial slime evolved into people.

 

[JackH]

You know, you are absolutely right about that. Why, just the other day I read that primordial slime evolved into people.

That was in Dr. Dino's doctoral dissertation

Did you get him to autograph a copy in prison?

Back to the questions raised in the very first post.

Do you think Neanderthals are in heaven?

Why or why not?

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

The goal of the foram project was to test the idea that species could evolve by slow tiny increments, and in the same "space" or environment. It turns out they can.

To just say "they are still forams" missed the point of the study.

 

[john832]

You do recognize that with the creation account that you are buying into a Bronze Age belief system?

And you say that with authority?

 

[john832]

The goal of the foram project was to test the idea that species could evolve by slow tiny increments, and in the same "space" or environment. It turns out they can.

To just say "they are still forams" missed the point of the study.

Funny, God has created into the animals the ability to adapt and change to their environment. The species do adapt and change but they do not change into new species.

You observe something like the speckled pepper moth phenomena and proclaim EVOLUTION as the method the species developed...

Darwin's 'evolution' moth changes back from black to white thanks to soot-free skies | Daily Mail Online

The problem is that a new species did not develop here, in the past or ever.

 

[JackH]

Why do you have a problem with a detailed genealogy that clearly dates man as 6,000 years on this earth?

Not Kennewick Man.

He was here 9,300 years ago.

What do you think Kennewick Man's status is with respect to eternal salvation?

Kennewick Man: Scientists unravel 9,300-year-old skeleton's past - Los Angeles Times