What of the dinosaurs?

[Cycel]

I must confess that I have not read the entire Bible....

LOL. Knock me over with a feather.

You are not going to thank me for my honesty? How much of Darwin's, On the Origin of Species, have you read?

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

So sorry if some one else posted this. Its in youtube.
Little film that was made by a scientist. Its called. Expelled No Inteligence allowed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c63awtAyHdU

Made by a "scientist?"

Ben Stein is not a scientist. At best he is a clown. The other script writer (actually the main script writer) was Kevin Miller. He is a worse sum than Ben Stein: Stones and Bones: Kevin Miller gets really Expelled

As for the distortions, lies, and out-right frauds in the propaganda film "Expelled," see them exposed in Expelled Exposed: Why Expelled Flunks

 

[Billyd]

Interesting. I agreed with you before you corrected your post. I've seen biblical creationists win against non-Christians, no problem.

My friend, I would love to read the transcript of the YEC debate.

 

[Brainfreeze]

There are many brilliant scientists who are Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, or Muslim, or Agnostic (eg Charles Darwin). What they are not is a creationist.

In the Christian faith there are many living scientists who are active in faith and science. I recommend:

Ayala: Roman Catholic and biologist.
Giberson: Evangelical Protestant and physicist. He did not star in his history studies.
Miller: Roman Catholic, and biologist.
Roberts: Anglican priest and geologist.
Stearley: Evangelical Protestant, and geologist.
Young: Evangelical Protestant, and geologist.

Ayala, Francisco
2006 Darwin and Intelligent Design Minneapolis: Fortress Press

Collins, Francis S.
2006 The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief New York Free Press- Simon and Schuster

Giberson, Karl W.
2008 “Saving Darwin: How to be a Christian and believe in evolution” New York: HarperCollins

Ken Miller
1999 "Finding Darwin's God" New York: HarperCollins

Roberts, Michael
2008 "Evangelicals and Science" Greenwood Press

Young, Davis A., Ralf F. Stearley
2008 "The Bible, Rocks and Time: Geological Evidence for the Age of the Earth" Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press

More books eh Doc, ? How about someone with some real credibility in the science and electronic world we live in ..Tesla
over 700 patents, the man was a christian.
The Story of Nikola Tesla | Prophecy In The News

 

[Brainfreeze]

I'll convert as soon as you show us a faith healer heal an amputee.

He does whatever He wants... We have capabilities with electronic arms today, don't we ? Here's something a little more miraculous, how about bringing the dead back to life.

Ohio Man Declared Dead Comes Back to Life - ABC News

 

[Free-To-Be]

Made by a "scientist?"

Ben Stein is not a scientist. At best he is a clown. The other script writer (actually the main script writer) was Kevin Miller. He is a worse sum than Ben Stein: Stones and Bones: Kevin Miller gets really Expelled

As for the distortions, lies, and out-right frauds in the propaganda film "Expelled," see them exposed in Expelled Exposed: Why Expelled Flunks

clowns dont write letters for the president, come on my eyes didnt fail me I know what I saw. He had no answer.

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

More books eh Doc, ? How about someone with some real credibility in the science and electronic world we live in ..Tesla over 700 patents, the man was a christian.

Did you miss something?

Did you miss that every scientist I mentioned above was a Christian?

Do you know that there are thousands of Christian clergy who affirm evolution? Here: The Clergy Letter Project

Do you know about the American Science Affiliation?" "As an organization, the ASA does not take a position when there is honest disagreement between Christians on an issue. We are committed to providing an open forum where controversies can be discussed without fear of unjust condemnation. Legitimate differences of opinion among Christians who have studied both the Bible and science are freely expressed within the Affiliation in a context of Christian love and concern for truth."
American Scientific Affiliation

Oh, and they reject young earth foolishness.

 

[JackH]

clowns dont write letters for the president, come on my eyes didnt fail me I know what I saw. He had no answer.

Ben Stein was awesome in the Ferris movie, and he's not a bad game-show host.

I agree with you, he is the perfect spokesperson for Young Earth Creationists. Much better than Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind).

As for Expelled, if you can't believe Roger Ebert who can you believe: "This film is cheerfully ignorant, manipulative, slanted, cherry-picks quotations, draws unwarranted conclusions, makes outrageous juxtapositions, segues between quotes that are not about the same thing, tells bald-faced lies, etc."

Yes indeed, sounds like Young Earth Creationism to me.

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

clowns dont write letters for the president, come on my eyes didnt fail me I know what I saw. He had no answer.

Clowns broke into offices for Nixon. Ben Stein was the cover-up clown who avoided jail. But, "Win Ben Stein's Money" did have one fun episode. That was when he was exposed as a fraud.

Who had no answer for what?

 

[JackH]

Billyd, it's funny you say that the creationists here and are displaying hatred and ranting etc. And there is some, of that sadly, yes, but you and others here fail to see the extreme, burning hatred that stems from one or two particular theistic evolutionists here. It's almost like our very existence is an offense to them. How dare these creationists make us Christians look foolish in the eyes of the world!

Hey, your last sentence, that's what Pat Robertson said to Ken Ham.

He also said: "And we have skeletons of dinosaurs that go back like 65 million years. And to say that it all came around 6 thousand years ago is nonsense."

The Pope wanted to say the same thing to Ken Ham, but he's too nice.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Did you miss something?

Did you miss that every scientist I mentioned above was a Christian?

Do you know that there are thousands of Christian clergy who affirm evolution? Here: The Clergy Letter Project

Do you know about the American Science Affiliation?" "As an organization, the ASA does not take a position when there is honest disagreement between Christians on an issue. We are committed to providing an open forum where controversies can be discussed without fear of unjust condemnation. Legitimate differences of opinion among Christians who have studied both the Bible and science are freely expressed within the Affiliation in a context of Christian love and concern for truth."
American Scientific Affiliation

Oh, and they reject young earth foolishness.

Thats what choices are about, we all have free will to believe whatever we want, pope alike. I'll stick with the living word of God.

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

He does whatever He wants... We have capabilities with electronic arms today, don't we ? Here's something a little more miraculous, how about bringing the dead back to life.

Did Jesus save that man? Is that a miracle? What stops Jesus from saving the millions of innocent children who die from starvation? There were so many people who "came back from the dead" in the 1800s that there was a US Patent awarded for a coffin with an alarm built in just in case the corpse came "alive" and needed rescue.

Naw. Show me a healed missing leg, or arm. There are medical scientists working on this problem. My bet is with them.

 

[Tintin]

Hey, your last sentence, that's what Pat Robertson said to Ken Ham.

He also said: "And we have skeletons of dinosaurs that go back like 65 million years. And to say that it all came around 6 thousand years ago is nonsense."

The Pope wanted to say the same thing to Ken Ham, but he's too nice.

I have little respect for Pat Roberston and the Pope and a little more for Ken Ham. Yes, Ham did do some very ungodly things against the rest of the biblical creation ministry he was part of at the time and that's not to be excused. For a time I was very displeased with that, but you know what? It shouldn't be held against him any more. God certainly doesn't hold it against him. Ham repented and God is using him powerfully again. Out of human crap and misery, He works a beautiful pearl. Don't discount your brothers and sisters in Christ. I don't believe the same things as you but you're still my brother.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Did Jesus save that man? Is that a miracle? What stops Jesus from saving the millions of innocent children who die from starvation? There were so many people who "came back from the dead" in the 1800s that there was a US Patent awarded for a coffin with an alarm built in just in case the corpse came "alive" and needed rescue.

Naw. Show me a healed missing leg, or arm. There are medical scientists working on this problem. My bet is with them.

Whatever happens, anywhere and everywhere are decisions of God. The only difference is you have faith in man, We have faith in God. God made man and anything man does is accredited to God. We serve His will whether we want to or not, every knee will bow doc, every single one.

 

[Cycel]

Well what you're doing is blindly trusting other skeptics that have told you certain things. This can be tempting I realize, but when you're set straight, you resist. It's almost a religious knee-jerk reaction.

I should mention again that I became an atheist before becoming aware that other atheists existed (first doubts about age 10 and a full blown atheist by age 12, or perhaps earlier). So I was not influenced by skeptics. My source for science, back then, was my collection of How And Why Wonder Books. Not until about age 16 did I start to borrow books on apologetics, philosophy of religion, comparative religion, and histories on Judaism from my local public library. My first big love was for dinosaurs and insects, then I got into archeology and finally astronomy at about age sixteen, I had no books on atheism. I had no serious interest in evolution during my childhood or teen years (though a very good friend of mine was into evolution in a big way during his teens – he's now a biologist). I simply stopped believing in God, though it is hard to explain why. I have no recollection of deliberately giving up the belief, and I have no recollection of reading atheist literature, in fact I am pretty sure that never happened.

Which is the standard claim of those you're reading. That's why at the very outset I drew all my definitions from the book of Genesis itself. You did't catch that mainly because you just don't understand the issue.

What are you claiming? Genesis is one of those books I have read a number of times.

You're doing what you're accusing me of doing—trying to force Genesis into a particular culture.

No, my approach is to take the claims of the author literally. You, it seems to me, want to claim that it does not mean what it says. You are trying to understand it in terms of what we know today about the universe.

The skepticism you guys are bringing is as religious as any other belief. You no longer work off evidence. It's about fitting evidences into your religious skepticism.

I think you are wrong, but perhaps I need to listen more carefully to what you are saying. What do you mean by the claim that I am “fitting evidences into your (my) religious skepticism”? Can you give me an example of this?

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

I think the easiest path to atheism is Bible, or Q'uran study coupled with discussions with fervent creationists.

I still stuggle to maintain a properly scientific agnostic perspective.

 

[Brainfreeze]

I think the easiest path to atheism is Bible, or Q'uran study coupled with discussions with fervent creationists.

I still stuggle to maintain a properly scientific agnostic perspective.

Where does genuine love come from doc, what part of evolution describes this ? What happened in your life that you hate God so deeply ?

 

[Dr_GS_Hurd]

That's why at the very outset I drew all my definitions from the book of Genesis itself. You did't catch that mainly because you just don't understand the issue. You're doing what you're accusing me of doing—trying to force Genesis into a particular culture.

I recommend some reading of Genesis, and about Genesis. Here are books on my shelves I have found helpful:

Barr, James
2005 “History and Ideology in the Old Testament: Biblical Studies at the end of a Millennium” Oxford University Press

Blenkinsopp, Joseph
1992 The Pentateuch: An Introduction to the First Five Books of the Bible The Anchor Bible Reference Library New York: ABRL/Doubleday

Boadt, Lawrence
1984 Reading the Old Testament: an Introduction Mahwah N.J.: The Paulist Press

Bodine, Walter R., (Ed.)
1992 "Linguistics and Biblical Hebrew." Winona Lake: Eisenbrauns

Brotzman, Ellis R.
1994 "Old Testament textural criticism: a practical introduction." Grand Rapids: Baker Academic

Hamilton, Victor P.
1990 “The Book of Genesis: Chapters 1-17” Grand Rapids: Eerdmans Publishing Co.

Jewish Publication Society
2004 “The Jewish Study Bible: TANAKA translation” Oxford University Press.

Sparks, Kenton L.
2005 “Ancient Texts for the Study of the Hebrew Bible” Peabody PA: Hendrickson Publishers

Speiser, E. A.
1962 "Genesis: Introduction, Translation and Notes" New York: Anchor Bible- Doubleday

If I were to pick just one, it would be a tie between Speiser, and Blenkinsopp.

 

[Cycel]

I think the easiest path to atheism is Bible, or Q'uran study coupled with discussions with fervent creationists.

I still stuggle to maintain a properly scientific agnostic perspective.

I assumed you were an atheist, but you identify yourself as an agnostic? Dawkins has said that he is 99.99% certain there is no God, but maintains a partial openness to the idea of deity for reasons of scientific objectivity (that's a paraphrase). You are taking a similar stance?

Did you come from a religious background? If so when did you become an agnostic? Was there some event or knowledge acquisition that pushed you in this direction. Just curious. Have you written about this?

 

[dcontroversal]

I think the easiest path to atheism is Bible, or Q'uran study coupled with discussions with fervent creationists.

I still stuggle to maintain a properly scientific agnostic perspective.

Full Definition of AGNOSTIC 1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable

If you are really agnostic by definition then your view and what you believe and teach is a total farce because according to your belief ANY REALITY (including the age of the earth, dino bones and evolution to name a few ) is UNKNOWN and probably UNKNOWABLE....

So....you argue that which you do not know and or cannot know according your own testimony!

How does that jive with your most highly prized education, and boast concerning your education, and what you say you know....Just asking?