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The wages of sin is death... If people still hold hate, and wickedness in their heart, that's up to them. I was forgiven of my sins, and have not broke the commandments once, since being saved almost three years now. If I do " sin " like your post said we have Jesus to go to, to forgive us, doesn't mean there won't be consequences and discipline for what was done. I'm a new creation in Christ that serves Him in love and righteousness " following Jesus and the Ten Commandments "not a slick mouthed drug dealer that I was, that did what I wanted and served flesh then go to church on sat or sun, saying amen, amen! That's hypocritical .. and yes I do what I do out of my own will and choice, with help from the Holy Spirit to do so... I'm not powerless, I have God with me, why I've completely dropped and rebuked my old self, to let Jesus reign over my life. How is Jesus reigning in folks lives that say they're powerless over temptation ? If we say we have Jesus with us, who successfully defeated temptation from Satan, how are we powerless ?
B
Exactly where are these prophecies given that did not come to pass? Who is to say that these prophecies are not be fulfilled in the future? Using that logic...Jesus is false prophet. Has He returned? Nope. Has the mark of the beast been enforced? Nope?
But seriously...that is a terrible argument and is used by many to declare that she is a false prophet and I am not SDA but I do read her writings just to see what all of the fuss is about. The SDA church (their leaders mainly) have fallen into apostasy...and Sister White predicted that they would join with Rome...and they have.
But seriously...that is a terrible argument and is used by many to declare that she is a false prophet and I am not SDA but I do read her writings just to see what all of the fuss is about. The SDA church (their leaders mainly) have fallen into apostasy...and Sister White predicted that they would join with Rome...and they have.
hi there. 
of course we make choices.
but i don't believe God will share HIS glory.
that's why He makes it clear to us that HE is the One doing all the good,
and we were (are) responsible for all our badness.
God, in Christ, has taken ultimate responsibility for my sins,
and God is the only One Who deserves any praise and glory for
anything good that's come out of my life since He saved me.
does that make sense?
of course we make choices.
but i don't believe God will share HIS glory.
that's why He makes it clear to us that HE is the One doing all the good,
and we were (are) responsible for all our badness.
God, in Christ, has taken ultimate responsibility for my sins,
and God is the only One Who deserves any praise and glory for
anything good that's come out of my life since He saved me.
does that make sense?
I agree anything I have done right was clearly Him guiding me, and at times urging me.
2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”
Colossians 3:24-25, “Knowing that from Yahweh you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve Yahshua the Messiah. But he who does wrong will receive the reward for the wrong he has done, and there is no respect of persons.”
1 Kepha (Peter) 1:17-18, “And if you call on the Father, Who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence. Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your fathers.”
Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”
Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”
Romans 2:4-11, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.”
Revelation 19:8, "And to them was granted that they should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."
@Brainfreeze
Powerless, on our own... empowered with the Spirit to obey... I guess that part was a simple misunderstanding. All the glory and honor goes to God. I couldnt quit cigarettes and my other addictions like overeating - couldnt on my own - until God helped me... and I was not back to them. So God is working in my life. I listened to a lot of dark music, revelled in anger and holding grudges, had mood swings and suicidal wishes as an unbeliever. God changed me.
The thing we are in disagreement on is what we believe Sabbath is. You might believe it is Saturday observance, I believe it is rest in Jesus... but the Bible says this disagreement is non-issue... what is important is that we both believe in resting in the Sabbath...
What also seems to make people oppose you is saying that you havent broken any commandment since you were a believer, and then you condemn other people. Just being honest - that provoked me to like that post you mentioned, although I dont agree with the way it was said but I do with the bottom line of it.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
This is what made you sound wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. But I've yet have to meet a follower of Jesus who never stumbles.
Powerless, on our own... empowered with the Spirit to obey... I guess that part was a simple misunderstanding. All the glory and honor goes to God. I couldnt quit cigarettes and my other addictions like overeating - couldnt on my own - until God helped me... and I was not back to them. So God is working in my life. I listened to a lot of dark music, revelled in anger and holding grudges, had mood swings and suicidal wishes as an unbeliever. God changed me.
The thing we are in disagreement on is what we believe Sabbath is. You might believe it is Saturday observance, I believe it is rest in Jesus... but the Bible says this disagreement is non-issue... what is important is that we both believe in resting in the Sabbath...
What also seems to make people oppose you is saying that you havent broken any commandment since you were a believer, and then you condemn other people. Just being honest - that provoked me to like that post you mentioned, although I dont agree with the way it was said but I do with the bottom line of it.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
This is what made you sound wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. But I've yet have to meet a follower of Jesus who never stumbles.
J
Juggling some things and only have a minute or so, but you've not been one who has said such things, not at all, and I don't have any issue with you having a special day. I have no issue with an Adventist who keeps their Ellen White out of my face. But I am never going to react, if I do react, with affirmation that believing God's very word, as given to Paul, is not true faith or God's New Testament doctrine in scripture sin, and am not ashamed to say anybody is a horse's rear (again, not you, as you haven't behaved this way) who even implies any such legalistic self righteousness, offensive to the blood of Christ. Anybody trample my faith in that word of God, and I may have something to say, as I don't like self righteous liars who don't know how to divide the word of God, pontificating faithless exegesis with giant copy and pastes meant to steamroll the errors, either. Again, I've literally been called a devil, by some, all that can be said, very creepy people who don't like truth, like Dracula doesn't like sunlight.
P
i hope you'll forgive me for snipping your post...it's easier for me to deal with a thought at a time.
i'd like to add a bit more to what you quoted...(v 18-25)
Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.
Children, be obedient to your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.
Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.
Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.
this is kinda deep theological waters for me, so please, Lord help me do You justice...
in that passage, God is speaking to us about horizontal relationships...
with one another.
we have to reckon the whole counsel of God, which includes Rom 8:1...
there is, therefore, NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
our vertical consequences for sin (between us and God) have been dealt with and put away
by our Lord Jesus. forever.
but there will be horizontal consequences when we sin.
if i sin (and may God forbid it!) against a family member, or my husband,
there will be consequences in our relationship.
and there probably will be correction (discipline...teaching) from God...but not condemnation.
i'll stop there, because talking about my wonderful husband makes me want to go
hang out with him.
again, i hope that makes sense.
ellie
i'd like to add a bit more to what you quoted...(v 18-25)
Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.
Children, be obedient to your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.
Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.
Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.
this is kinda deep theological waters for me, so please, Lord help me do You justice...
in that passage, God is speaking to us about horizontal relationships...
with one another.
we have to reckon the whole counsel of God, which includes Rom 8:1...
there is, therefore, NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
our vertical consequences for sin (between us and God) have been dealt with and put away
by our Lord Jesus. forever.
but there will be horizontal consequences when we sin.
if i sin (and may God forbid it!) against a family member, or my husband,
there will be consequences in our relationship.
and there probably will be correction (discipline...teaching) from God...but not condemnation.
i'll stop there, because talking about my wonderful husband makes me want to go
hang out with him.
again, i hope that makes sense.
ellie
See, now your putting words in my mouth as they all do, when opposing, saying I've " condemned " someone... I'm not saying I haven't sinned against the complete 600 laws of God, I'm saying I haven't broke His Commandments. I've said a cuss word a bunch of times, or smoke a cig, is still not a commandment, though I do try my best not to do them, I know God wouldn't want me to, but it's not a commandment. I'm not saying if you brake the Commandments it's over for you. I'm not going to say that I can't keep the Ten Commandments though, because with my eyes on Jesus I can, I do and will.
yes we build on Gods foundation in the beggining,
God made the Sabbath in creation, not ellen or others.
because she was wrong does not mean the sabbath is wrong.
If the very foundation of a religion is bad,
now take like the roman influence on religion over the world,
it is pointless to discuss any doctrines built atop that bad foundation.
On 7 March 321, Constantine I, Rome's first Christian Emperor ,
decreed that Sunday would be observed as the Roman day of rest:
On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.
In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.[6]
rome was here way before ellen was
God made the Sabbath in creation, not ellen or others.
because she was wrong does not mean the sabbath is wrong.
If the very foundation of a religion is bad,
now take like the roman influence on religion over the world,
it is pointless to discuss any doctrines built atop that bad foundation.
On 7 March 321, Constantine I, Rome's first Christian Emperor ,
decreed that Sunday would be observed as the Roman day of rest:
On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.
In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.[6]
rome was here way before ellen was
So when you say commandments you refer to the 10 commandments in the simplest sense... Ok that helps explain. Now we know what we're talking about. I still agree with some other people that these commandments can be understood very broadly (at least I understand them that way) and that it is very easy to break them in that "inner" sense, but what you wrote there, ok we can agree, yes we can obey with our faith in Jesus and if we stumble we get up and press forward. I would also like to say that we who discussed from the other point of view are NOT against obeying these commandments. (we merely have different understanding of the Sabbath Rest)
i hope you'll forgive me for snipping your post...it's easier for me to deal with a thought at a time.
i'd like to add a bit more to what you quoted...(v 18-25)
Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.
Children, be obedient to your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.
Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.
Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.
this is kinda deep theological waters for me, so please, Lord help me do You justice...
in that passage, God is speaking to us about horizontal relationships...
with one another.
we have to reckon the whole counsel of God, which includes Rom 8:1...
there is, therefore, NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
our vertical consequences for sin (between us and God) have been dealt with and put away
by our Lord Jesus. forever.
but there will be horizontal consequences when we sin.
if i sin (and may God forbid it!) against a family member, or my husband,
there will be consequences in our relationship.
and there probably will be correction (discipline...teaching) from God...but not condemnation.
i'll stop there, because talking about my wonderful husband makes me want to go
hang out with him.
again, i hope that makes sense.
ellie
i'd like to add a bit more to what you quoted...(v 18-25)
Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.
Children, be obedient to your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.
Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.
Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.
this is kinda deep theological waters for me, so please, Lord help me do You justice...
in that passage, God is speaking to us about horizontal relationships...
with one another.
we have to reckon the whole counsel of God, which includes Rom 8:1...
there is, therefore, NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
our vertical consequences for sin (between us and God) have been dealt with and put away
by our Lord Jesus. forever.
but there will be horizontal consequences when we sin.
if i sin (and may God forbid it!) against a family member, or my husband,
there will be consequences in our relationship.
and there probably will be correction (discipline...teaching) from God...but not condemnation.
i'll stop there, because talking about my wonderful husband makes me want to go
hang out with him.
again, i hope that makes sense.
ellie
On Romans 8:1, "there is, therefore, NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus"
Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
1 Yahchanan (John) 2:6, "6 He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."
Although he was sharp, he didnt say you were wretched as to hate you, but in general, this goes for ALL of us including myself.
Without the Spirit's empowering we cant do anything good... you are able to keep the commandments because of Jesus who upholds you.
Anyways, now when you explained yourself there is no disagreement. I apologize for my offense towards you.
What I mean by "commandments are broad", I am bad in explaining so allow me to give an example... is think how many people believe they are not coveting just because they dont barge into peoples' houses. But how many Christians have downloaded music on their computer illegally for which they didnt pay royalties to own??? A whole lot. Is this not coveting? Thats btw another reason why I make my praise music without charge so it is available to all.
Without the Spirit's empowering we cant do anything good... you are able to keep the commandments because of Jesus who upholds you.
Anyways, now when you explained yourself there is no disagreement. I apologize for my offense towards you.
What I mean by "commandments are broad", I am bad in explaining so allow me to give an example... is think how many people believe they are not coveting just because they dont barge into peoples' houses. But how many Christians have downloaded music on their computer illegally for which they didnt pay royalties to own??? A whole lot. Is this not coveting? Thats btw another reason why I make my praise music without charge so it is available to all.
P
sooo...i went to sit with my husband, who asked what's new?
and we looked at this together.
he reminded me our pastor says we either see God's Word through eyes of fear,
or eyes of faith.
i want to thank you for completing the thought in Romans.
i guess i don't see the last part as any sort of threat (not that you do!),
but rather as a reality we walk in...part of Christ's gift of Righteousness.
more and more we deny the flesh and walk according to His Spirit in us.
thank you, too, for such a lovely discussion.
i'm reminded of this...
Col 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.
♥
and we looked at this together.
he reminded me our pastor says we either see God's Word through eyes of fear,
or eyes of faith.
i want to thank you for completing the thought in Romans.
i guess i don't see the last part as any sort of threat (not that you do!),
but rather as a reality we walk in...part of Christ's gift of Righteousness.
more and more we deny the flesh and walk according to His Spirit in us.
thank you, too, for such a lovely discussion.
i'm reminded of this...
Col 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.
♥