What does Jesus' dual nature mean ?

[Attos]

Or to put it differently: what does it mean saying that Jesus is God ? My understanding is that Jesus was God before getting a human body (human birth), but I can't make sense of the relationship between Jesus man / Jesus God / The Father. Some questions arise: 1. If Jesus was fully man and fully God, means did he have a human mind and human soul plus a Godly mind and soul ? Basically, Jesus-God has inhabited a human body ? 2. Are we talking about 2 different personalities / wills controlling 1 body, so could for example Human Jesus decide to go left and God Jesus to walk the opposite direction, and what would happen in that case ? 3. Why is it said that God became flesh ? How does that phrasing not imply that God has altered/lost His divine attributes ? Or is it that God has chosen to abstain from fully expressing his attributes during the time/circumstances of Jesus' life ? Also, my understanding is that God didn't "become" anything, but was joined to a human in some way that I'm trying to figure out here. 4. It is said that Jesus came as a servant. Was / Is he Father's servant outside of his earthly life ? 5. So what does the dual God-man nature *mean* ? I can't see the concept "happening" or beling applied anywhere in Jesus' teachings/ life. My problem is that if you have a "concept", that "concept" should be reflected/represented somewhere. For example, a "pencil" can be shown as an object that you can hold and write with. If you can't do that, the only result of the concept is to confuse one's mind ... The only thing I see is that Jesus is following Father's will and he receives from the Father the powers he needs to put that into practice. But you don't need a God-man duality for that, a very good prophet would do the same.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Jesus Christ was conceived of God, the Holy Spirit, had no father with the Adamic nature. Unlike a prophet, while holy men or women of God, Jesus Christ was not given the Holy Spirit in measure, rather was uniquely of the fullness of the Holy Spirit as a man, that is, very God in flesh, and without sin, with no predisposition to sin. So, Jesus Christ had no dual nature, with respect to sinful man, nor was He a creation, rather came down from heaven and from eternity to be with man. While Christ could share our experience as humans, there are some huge differences! As to some of your questions, maybe somebody else can understand what you're looking for, sorry.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The best way that it was explained to me in my studies growing up was to look at it like this;

Water, ice, steam: All of these are made up of the same elements, but in different forms or personalities/traits.

The Godhead is different forms with their different traits and/or personalities. Just like we are all different in our personalities, looks, and traits but make up one church body.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Jesus was 100% God and 100% man but He laid aside His Deity while in the flesh and began a walk/life that was to be our Only Example of how we are to 'walk with God'. He was tempted in all ways as we are, as well... but didn't sin because He loved God. The purpose of His 3.5 yrs on earth was to speak Audibly - have His Words documented by those that walked with Him, as before His Coming, we only had the O.T. to either believe or not believe or say "We can't do this stuff"... He had to come to be our Example of how to walk in total dependence on God by the Spirit of God & Christ.

He totally depended on God through The Spirit to get "the words and works" from God, as the Example to us of how to walk.

We needed The God-Man to take the sins of the World upon Himself. The Creator needed to die for His Own Creation - and wanted to show us what His Love really is, by doing so.

Jesus was in the bosom of The Father from eternity, Equal as God - the heart of God which proceded out as The Word of GOD. "For out of the heart, the mouth speaks".

You will know Him when you seek Him with all of your heart and eat/devour The Word of GOD that is written - that He left us, and by asking His Spirit to lead you [John 16:13] into the Knowledge of Himself.

Then these questions won't even come to your mind anymore, if you're saved!

 

[ThomistColin]

Attos, think of it like this, your own dual nature is a shadow of Christ's. You are both spirit and flesh, enmeshed to the point of being indistinguishable. You have a soul and have a body, but without one you would cease to be fully you. Thus it is now with Christ, as was the plan from the very beginning of all the ages. Jesus is both God and man, to the point that you cannot distinguish the two natures. For when Christ cried out on the Cross, that was not the human side of Christ, but also the Godly, for there is no separating of the two.

I hope this helps.

 

[GuessWho]

The Council at Chalcedon declared (in virtue of the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, of the ecclesiological experience and based on Scripture) that Jesus Christ is one person with two natures.

"We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως – in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter) the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεόν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us."

​

 

[4enlightment]

Or to put it differently: what does it mean saying that Jesus is God ? My understanding is that Jesus was God before getting a human body (human birth), but I can't make sense of the relationship between Jesus man / Jesus God / The Father. Some questions arise: 1. If Jesus was fully man and fully God, means did he have a human mind and human soul plus a Godly mind and soul ? Basically, Jesus-God has inhabited a human body ? 2. Are we talking about 2 different personalities / wills controlling 1 body, so could for example Human Jesus decide to go left and God Jesus to walk the opposite direction, and what would happen in that case ? 3. Why is it said that God became flesh ? How does that phrasing not imply that God has altered/lost His divine attributes ? Or is it that God has chosen to abstain from fully expressing his attributes during the time/circumstances of Jesus' life ? Also, my understanding is that God didn't "become" anything, but was joined to a human in some way that I'm trying to figure out here. 4. It is said that Jesus came as a servant. Was / Is he Father's servant outside of his earthly life ? 5. So what does the dual God-man nature *mean* ? I can't see the concept "happening" or beling applied anywhere in Jesus' teachings/ life. My problem is that if you have a "concept", that "concept" should be reflected/represented somewhere. For example, a "pencil" can be shown as an object that you can hold and write with. If you can't do that, the only result of the concept is to confuse one's mind ... The only thing I see is that Jesus is following Father's will and he receives from the Father the powers he needs to put that into practice. But you don't need a God-man duality for that, a very good prophet would do the same.

God has came down to show us how to become perfect in the natural. He could not let the natural to teach the natural in how to become perfect, because there were no one that is able to teach. There is only one that is perfect and He is able to teach us how to become perfect and which all of us lack those credentials.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I don't recall, and, personally, don't care to, all the false doctrines down the ages, involving dual nature type stuff, but there are a lot of them. They involved Christ having two entirely separate natures, Christ being created in a man, some junk about the Christ part not really dying on the cross, don't remember all of a long list. It's not that this may not be useful to those wishing to spot the really egregious errors of the past of certain groups, to be on the watch for them, but Jesus Christ being God, come down to us from eternity in heaven, to be born the God-man in the flesh, to commend His love for us and redeem all of us who believe in Him, the truth of the entire account in scripture, is what I concluded is all I need to know. The encyclopedic volumes of all things whacked only cloud one's focus on that which is pure of the word of God, some arguments maybe not really worth having, that touch on far flung speculations. You could actually spend the rest of your life, going in circles with people over "heresies" they are called, but a word I hate to use.

 

[Straightshot]

Response to the OP

The Lord is both God and human at the same time ..... incredible as this may seem

All things are possible with the Creator of the universe [John 1:1-14]

 

[Straightshot]

John
14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[Joidevivre]

Wow - this is involved. I believe much more simply that God sent Himself to earth as a total 100% human in Jesus. He lived as we lived - shared our struggles and and our nature - and didn't begin His ministry on earth until He was filled with the Holy Spirit at His baptism. Nor can we. He revealed how we could now live with the fullness of the Spirit in us. And how we could do the works that He did because of the power of the Holy Spirit working in Him and now in us.

He didn't have a dual nature before the Holy Spirit came upon Him at his baptism. Neither do we until we are filled with the Holy Spirit. Now we always will have a struggle with our flesh vs. the Holy Spirit. Jesus had the same struggle in that He was tempted in all points as we are...but He showed us how when we are walking in the Spirit and not the flesh, we could also overcome. I believe that He struggled against His flesh in ways that were not written down... but we have a glimpse of it in the garden when He said. "Not my will......"

 

[Angelmommie]

The best way that it was explained to me in my studies growing up was to look at it like this;

Water, ice, steam: All of these are made up of the same elements, but in different forms or personalities/traits.

The Godhead is different forms with their different traits and/or personalities. Just like we are all different in our personalities, looks, and traits but make up one church body.

I like that..I am going to use that when i explain to my kiddos when they ask!

 

[4enlightment]

Wow - this is involved. I believe much more simply that God sent Himself to earth as a total 100% human in Jesus. He lived as we lived - shared our struggles and and our nature - and didn't begin His ministry on earth until He was filled with the Holy Spirit at His baptism. Nor can we. He revealed how we could now live with the fullness of the Spirit in us. And how we could do the works that He did because of the power of the Holy Spirit working in Him and now in us.

He didn't have a dual nature before the Holy Spirit came upon Him at his baptism. Neither do we until we are filled with the Holy Spirit. Now we always will have a struggle with our flesh vs. the Holy Spirit. Jesus had the same struggle in that He was tempted in all points as we are...but He showed us how when we are walking in the Spirit and not the flesh, we could also overcome. I believe that He struggled against His flesh in ways that were not written down... but we have a glimpse of it in the garden when He said. "Not my will......"

Matthew 3:14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and though you come to me?”

15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.

This verse is saying that God didn't need to be Baptize, but He was doing this to show us the way what we must go through. And He had came as a thief in the night or you can say that He has came as a undercover boss, but not to judge this time, but to show us how to tend to His company. But He had to stick to the script (prophecies).

 

[GuessWho]

2. Are we talking about 2 different personalities / wills controlling 1 body, so could for example Human Jesus decide to go left and God Jesus to walk the opposite direction, and what would happen in that case ?

Hm...no, we talk about one person that has two natures. For instance, I am a person with a human nature because my parents are human beings.

3. Why is it said that God became flesh ? How does that phrasing not imply that God has altered/lost His divine attributes ? Or is it that God has chosen to abstain from fully expressing his attributes during the time/circumstances of Jesus' life ? Also, my understanding is that God didn't "become" anything, but was joined to a human in some way that I'm trying to figure out here.

I think that in order to understand this, we must understand the concept of kenosis (emptying). I am not the best one to teach you about this, but the kenosis implies that God, by becoming a man, refused to show his glorious power (or even gave up his glory) not that he lost it or that He ceased to be God.

4. It is said that Jesus came as a servant. Was / Is he Father's servant outside of his earthly life ? 5. So what does the dual God-man nature *mean* ? I can't see the concept "happening" or beling applied anywhere in Jesus' teachings/ life. My problem is that if you have a "concept", that "concept" should be reflected/represented somewhere. For example, a "pencil" can be shown as an object that you can hold and write with. If you can't do that, the only result of the concept is to confuse one's mind ... The only thing I see is that Jesus is following Father's will and he receives from the Father the powers he needs to put that into practice. But you don't need a God-man duality for that, a very good prophet would do the same.

Jesus Christ, the man, is the revelation, the image of YHWH. A prophet never thought about himself to be the image or the Word of God.

 

[Butch5]

Or to put it differently: what does it mean saying that Jesus is God ? My understanding is that Jesus was God before getting a human body (human birth), but I can't make sense of the relationship between Jesus man / Jesus God / The Father. Some questions arise: 1. If Jesus was fully man and fully God, means did he have a human mind and human soul plus a Godly mind and soul ? Basically, Jesus-God has inhabited a human body ? 2. Are we talking about 2 different personalities / wills controlling 1 body, so could for example Human Jesus decide to go left and God Jesus to walk the opposite direction, and what would happen in that case ? 3. Why is it said that God became flesh ? How does that phrasing not imply that God has altered/lost His divine attributes ? Or is it that God has chosen to abstain from fully expressing his attributes during the time/circumstances of Jesus' life ? Also, my understanding is that God didn't "become" anything, but was joined to a human in some way that I'm trying to figure out here. 4. It is said that Jesus came as a servant. Was / Is he Father's servant outside of his earthly life ? 5. So what does the dual God-man nature *mean* ? I can't see the concept "happening" or beling applied anywhere in Jesus' teachings/ life. My problem is that if you have a "concept", that "concept" should be reflected/represented somewhere. For example, a "pencil" can be shown as an object that you can hold and write with. If you can't do that, the only result of the concept is to confuse one's mind ... The only thing I see is that Jesus is following Father's will and he receives from the Father the powers he needs to put that into practice. But you don't need a God-man duality for that, a very good prophet would do the same.

Hi Attos,

You have some very good questions here. I would like to suggest that the "dual nature" sometimes referred to as hypostasis is not what the Scriptures teach. Jesus is the Son of God, the Father. He is called God because He is of the same essence or substance as God the Father. It's just like why a baby is called a human, because the parents are human. The baby is of the same essence or substance as the parent. Too many get confused and think that there is a being called God that consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, this is not what the Scriptures are saying. There is one essence or substance that is God and both the Father and Jesus are of that essence or substance.

When the word became flesh, He became the man Jesus. He was and is 100% human, He is not a mixture of man and God. The Scriptures say that He was in the form of God and emptied Himself and took on the form of a servant, a man. To become something requires a change of state, He was in the form of God and became a man. The Scriptures say that He was in all ways made like unto His brethren. If you look at Gen 2:7 you'll see that God created man from the dust of the earth and breathed into him the breath/spirit of life and man became a living soul. From this passage we can see that man consists of the elements of the earth. When God created him the man was without life. God then breathed the breath/spirit of life into the man and the man became something, he became a living soul. Again, here we see a change of state. When God breathes His breath/spirit into a man the man lives. I submit that the Word became man in the womb of Mary.

 

[Jason0047]

Or to put it differently: what does it mean saying that Jesus is God ? My understanding is that Jesus was God before getting a human body (human birth), but I can't make sense of the relationship between Jesus man / Jesus God / The Father. Some questions arise: 1. If Jesus was fully man and fully God, means did he have a human mind and human soul plus a Godly mind and soul ? Basically, Jesus-God has inhabited a human body ? 2. Are we talking about 2 different personalities / wills controlling 1 body, so could for example Human Jesus decide to go left and God Jesus to walk the opposite direction, and what would happen in that case ? 3. Why is it said that God became flesh ? How does that phrasing not imply that God has altered/lost His divine attributes ? Or is it that God has chosen to abstain from fully expressing his attributes during the time/circumstances of Jesus' life ? Also, my understanding is that God didn't "become" anything, but was joined to a human in some way that I'm trying to figure out here. 4. It is said that Jesus came as a servant. Was / Is he Father's servant outside of his earthly life ? 5. So what does the dual God-man nature *mean* ? I can't see the concept "happening" or beling applied anywhere in Jesus' teachings/ life. My problem is that if you have a "concept", that "concept" should be reflected/represented somewhere. For example, a "pencil" can be shown as an object that you can hold and write with. If you can't do that, the only result of the concept is to confuse one's mind ... The only thing I see is that Jesus is following Father's will and he receives from the Father the powers he needs to put that into practice. But you don't need a God-man duality for that, a very good prophet would do the same.

I researched for like two days reading many different articles trying to find a good answer to this one. Then I ran into this video.
Probably the best explanation on this (In my opinion).

[video=youtube;0XZPHTZvXXo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XZPHTZvXXo[/video]

 

[Jason0047]

In regards to Omniscience: Christ displayed both being God and Man. In a side by side comparison: We can see Christ appearing to know all things and Christ appearing to not know all things.

He did not know all things. For...

• He did not know the day or the hour of his return and claimed that only the Father knew (Matthew 24:36).

• He recoiled in drinking of the cup that had all our sins within it (during His prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane) (Matthew 26:39).

• He felt a loss of separation from the Father when the Judgment of sin was being laid upon Him on the cross and could only take comfort in quoting the Scriptures (i.e. Psalm 22:1) that assured Him that God would never leave Him because God hears the cries of the afflicted (Matthew 27:46) (Psalm 22:1, 24).

That being said, He did know all things, too, though. For...

• Jesus knew the thoughts and hearts of men (Matthew 9:4) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 9:47) (John 2:25).

• "Jesus, knew all the things that were coming upon Him" (John 18:4). For He predicted His own death and His resurrection (John 10:17) (John 3:14) (John 2:19) (Matthew 16:21).

• His disciples said that Jesus knew all things. For they said truly, "Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God" (John 16:30). The extent of Jesus' knowledge was a compelling warrant for faith in his divine origin. At the end of his time on earth Jesus pressed Peter, "'Simon, son of John, do you love Me?' Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, 'Do you love Me?' And he said to Him, 'Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You' (John 21:17). Peter did not conclude from Jesus' knowledge of his heart that he knew all things; rather he concluded from the omniscience of Jesus that he knew his heart. "You know all things,"

• Jesus knew specific details about a woman's life whom He had never met (John 4:16-19). He also had knowledge about Nathaniel before he met him in John 1:47-49.

• Jesus foretold numerous things that his friends and enemies would do before it would happen. He foretold his disciples falling away (Mark 14:27). He told Peter was going to deny Him three times (Mark 14:30). He prophesied that Judas was going to betray him. For "Jesus said 'There are some of you who do not believe.' For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him" (John 6:64). "From now on," he said, "I am telling you before it comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am" (John 13:19). I believe this demonstration of Omniscience was an example of His power as God. For He states that belief in this prophecy being fulfilled would let them know he was the " I AM ." A claim to His deity, which was the same " I AM " statement made by God in Exodus 3:14.

• Jesus foreknew about smaller events. For Matthew 17:27 offers the account of Jesus knowing of a certain coin in a fish's mouth before the fish is caught! Jesus was confident that his disciples would find a donkey and have permission to use it for the purpose of His triumphal entry (Matthew 21:1, 2, 6).

• Jesus had detailed knowledge about the afterlife. For Jesus tells a very specific account of two men who had died. One who went into Abraham's bosom and the other into torments (Hell) (Luke 16:19-31).

 

[crossnote]

Two Natures in Christ...Martin Chemnitz a classic then, a classic now.

here's a video teaching on the book by an old friend of mine...
"The Two Natures in Christ" Study by Dr. Rod Rosenbladt on Vimeo

 

[Tintin]

The best way that it was explained to me in my studies growing up was to look at it like this;

Water, ice, steam: All of these are made up of the same elements, but in different forms or personalities/traits.

The Godhead is different forms with their different traits and/or personalities. Just like we are all different in our personalities, looks, and traits but make up one church body.

I find that no analogy works well when trying to explain the Trinity. We can't full understand how God works in this capacity, but we have some idea. I think the best thing is to explain who the persons of God are, how they're three persons but one God and then their own identities and roles and their perfect relationship with each other. This can be done with a simple triangle-style diagram. But analogies, they can easily lead to false understandings and you don't want that.

 

[Nick01]

1. Traditionally, the distinction has been made between 'natures' and 'persons'. So, Jesus has two natures (human and divine), but these natures subsist in one person (Jesus). So, Jesus is not divided in person (he is not two different competing minds or personalities), but he has a human nature and a divine nature. I guess the closest kind of analogy that I can explain it concisely with would be considering the human sinful nature, and human personhood (me-ness). So, in one sense my sinful nature contributes to my personhood, but my personhood is distinct from my nature as well, because I can still be 'me' with or without sin. Does that make sense?

2. No, one person/personality.

3. Well, it does in a certain sense imply loss of divine qualities, but when the Bible talks about this (in the gospels where Jesus doesn't seem to possess all divine qualities, and things like Phillipians 2), it is attributed more to an active decision on the part of Christ to leave those qualities behind. In other words, I suppose it is possible that God could have manifested in the flesh AND retain all divine qualities, but wilfully decided not to. And no, I think the Bible does teach that the Son really DID become fully man, but without losing the divine nature as a function of that manhood.

4. This an ongoing discussion in theology, which usually comes under the rubric of the eternal subjugation of the Son. Personally, I think the Son has always been eternally subject to the Father in some sense.

5. Places like Hebrews, Phillipians 2, etc are good places to start, as well as the raw circumstances of Jesus life. Essentially, the premise is that the authority with which Jesus teaches, his power, his nature, his glorification, his status as Son of Man, etc, cannot simply be things that come about because of extrinsic bequeathment by the Father, but are at some level intrinsic to Jesus' own nature. So it can't be simply that JEsus is just doing what God told him to - the very fact that the prophets attest to Jesus shows that he is more than a prophet, even more than a very good one