Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.

[dcontroversal]

Really? Where exactly did you reply to the verses I was just talking about in defense of my position?

How would you define lust?

Can you have lust for a woman?

Do you think Jesus struggled with the temptation in lusting after women?

For if he was tempted in all points like we were, then you have to say .... yes.

Are you saying Jesus had a sin nature so as to be tempted like we are tempted?

Did Jesus have wrong desire that he battled against?

Do you believe the word of God is the word of God?
Do you believe the word of God was inspired by God?
Do you believe that Holy men of God MOVED and wrote under inspiration of the Spirit?

For we have not a High PRIESTwich CANNOT BE TOUCHED with the feeling of OUR INFIRMITIES, but was in ALL POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE ARE, yet without sin.

What part of ALL POINTS LIKE AS WE ARE do you not understand!

Wherefore in ALL THINGS it behoved him to be made LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHERN that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to GOD, to MAKE RECONCILIATION for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath SUFFERED being TEPMTED, he is ABLE to succor them that ARE TEMPTED.

You, by your theology REJECT the truth of the above scriptures....It does not matter what you say about lust that a man would have for a woman...JESUS was TEMPTED in the SAME manner that we are tempted and if NOT then HE CANNOT POSSIBLY understand what we go through which was the WHOLE POINT of his temptation!

Jason, your view is flawed...receive the truth dude and realize that you are in error with your view....humble yourself and receive the truth brother!

 

[EmethAlethia]

LOL Of course he doesn't believe in scripture or he'd believe the verse. Mat 7:6 comes to mind. I'd stop now.LOL

 

[thecreationtutor]

love to see that Jesus I guess is not a high priest who can sympathize with us

Your the first part of Hebrews 11 that makes you feel like the Bible is a joke

where Jesus meets us

IS the last part - destitute, afflicted, torn in 2 - living in caves, and the wilderness

Tempted as we are - yet without sin



I don't want your view of CHristianity

Hebrews 11:
35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two,[a] they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— 38 of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.


This is the Christian life

14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Power in the Christian life


Going to choose to believe and act on Jesus is my High preist that can sympathize with my temptation - but He endured and got it done, and empowers me to do the same

 

[Jason0047]

Do you believe the word of God is the word of God?
Do you believe the word of God was inspired by God?
Do you believe that Holy men of God MOVED and wrote under inspiration of the Spirit?

For we have not a High PRIESTwich CANNOT BE TOUCHED with the feeling of OUR INFIRMITIES, but was in ALL POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE ARE, yet without sin.

What part of ALL POINTS LIKE AS WE ARE do you not understand!

Wherefore in ALL THINGS it behoved him to be made LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHERN that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to GOD, to MAKE RECONCILIATION for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath SUFFERED being TEPMTED, he is ABLE to succor them that ARE TEMPTED.

You, by your theology REJECT the truth of the above scriptures....It does not matter what you say about lust that a man would have for a woman...JESUS was TEMPTED in the SAME manner that we are tempted and if NOT then HE CANNOT POSSIBLY understand what we go through which was the WHOLE POINT of his temptation!

Jason, your view is flawed...receive the truth dude and realize that you are in error with your view....humble yourself and receive the truth brother!

I would like to call your attempt here as "Laser-Beam-Theology." You are attempting to make a truth or doctrine true based on one or two verses in Scripture. Focusing a laser beam by bolding the text does not change my explanation of those passages. Remember, Jesus did not cry until Mary cried. For Jesus knew Lazarus was dead. Jesus cried with Mary because he felt her pain. It's the same when Jesus ran into others who desired to tempt Jesus in all points or ways we are tempted. It groaned Jesus and gave him pain to know what it was like to be tempted externally with limited human knowledge (i.e. When Christ suppressed His Omniscience). No doubt when Satan tempted Jesus with turning stones into bread (so as to eat), his body would have naturally hungered for bread, but Jesus internally in His Eternal being (Who is God) did not desire to give into the devil or even to consider in eating of the bread.

Anyways, I have named your approach here as "Laser-Beam-Theology" because you still have yet to answer or explain the verses that I have put forth to explain why Jesus could not consider in doing bad or evil (i.e. true internal temptation) and you are focusing a laser beam on two passages (While ignoring others that I bring up). You keep repeating the same two verses over and over and will not look at what else God's Word has to say on the matter.

 

[Jason0047]

In fact, I have read the 2 passages in Hebrews from the perspective in referencing both an internal temptation and external temptation. I have looked at the passage from two different ways. Has anyone else tried to do that here (Looking to seek the truth)? Or do folks just want to see what they want to see (only to look at one side of things)? In other words, have you even tried keeping an open mind so as to read those two passages in Hebrews as if it was talking about external temptation (that would naturally cause our Lord paine because He can read the dark minds and hearts of men)?

I mean, are we to suggest that God did not know how we men didn't feel before the incarnation in regards to man being tempted? God knows ALL things! See, the key difference here is that Jesus is able to comfort them because He was in their place physically as a man like they were being tempted just like they were. However, the difference is that Christ did not ever consider or have a desire in doing evil (Which has to exist if one is to be truly tempted).

 

[Jason0047]

To put it to you another way, in order for the concept of Jesus being tempted to work, one has to sacrifice the goodness and holiness of our Lord and Savior. For can anyone explain to me how Jesus can be tempted without having some kind of wrong desire for the bad thing that he is being tempted with?

 

[Jason0047]

Also, as I mentioned before several times, in the passage of Hebrews that you quoted, you are again ignoring the word "LIKE" both times (Which is a comparison to something that is not exact).

 

[Jason0047]

Jesus did not have a sinful nature so as to be tempted. The Scriptures essentially say that Jesus was made in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh.

 

[Jason0047]

Does not a person who is tempted internally have to have some kind of sin within them in order to be tempted by the wrong? Yes, or no? Yet, the Scriptures say Jesus was without sin.

 

[Jason0047]

love to see that Jesus I guess is not a high priest who can sympathize with us

Your the first part of Hebrews 11 that makes you feel like the Bible is a joke

where Jesus meets us

IS the last part - destitute, afflicted, torn in 2 - living in caves, and the wilderness

Tempted as we are - yet without sin



I don't want your view of CHristianity

Well, I am not surprised you would say that. You never treated me with love and respect from day one while I was here at CC. So you can imagine what I think of your version or practice of Christianity (of which I find to be unbiblical and un-Christ-like). For we are to love the brethren (Even when we might disagree on certain things (i.e. Non-salvation topics)).

 

[Cassian]

Jesus did not have a sinful nature so as to be tempted. The Scriptures essentially say that Jesus was made in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh.

Yes, He was in our flesh. His Human nature was taken from the Virgin Mary. Just like us in all things yet He did not sin.
Part of your understanding is that you somehow hold to the idea that if one IS tempted that automatically one sins or has sin. That is NOT the case. We are all tempted. But we can reject the temptation. Your concept of lust that you gave means that a person has permitted the temptation to give birth to sin.
Christ was truly tempted but did not sin.

Its not that these issues have never come up before, but all these incorrect ideas have all been rejected some 1600 years ago in three successive Ecumenical Councils dealing with false teachings of the Incarnation.

 

[SolidGround]

Christ did not cheat.
He was truly tempted, and truly overcame.

Christ HUMBLED Himself, leaving behind His former glory.
When He did miracles, was it by His own power, or by the power available also to us: the Holy Spirit.

Be careful in Christology. Heresy is creeping in every corner.
It is better to say "I do not understand" rather than teach without understanding.

The Trinity is not a something that can be grasped by the human mind. Don't make any compromises of Truth just to get it to fit into a finite human understanding.

 

[Jason0047]

I don't want your view of CHristianity

In any event, I will be praying for you, my friend.

May God bless you, and please be well.

 

[SolidGround]

Does not a person who is tempted internally have to have some kind of sin within them in order to be tempted by the wrong? Yes, or no? Yet, the Scriptures say Jesus was without sin.

No.
Temptation does not require previous sin or even sin nature, as was proven by Adam and Eve.

And Jesus proved that man can be tempted and yet overcome temptation and remain without sin!
(He is our inspiration to do the same)

 

[Jason0047]

Christ did not cheat.
He was truly tempted, and truly overcame.

Yes, He was tempted, but it was external temptation only. Everyone here is dancing around the meaning of "internal temptation" or what it means to be "tempted internally." They are quitely tip toeing around this point so as not to face it so as to save face. Perhaps you will have the courage to think about the logic behind it.

Think. If I was tempted internally, does that not imply that I have to have some wrong desire for the thing that I am being tempted with? Yes, or no?

Did Jesus have wrong desires that kept buried inside Him? Would this be like a sin nature? But if Jesus has a sin nature, then how can we see He did not have sin, or unstained, holy, etc. (See Hebrews 7:25).

Christ HUMBLED Himself, leaving behind His former glory.

Agreed.

When He did miracles, was it by His own power, or by the power available also to us: the Holy Spirit.

Jesus worked miracles by the Holy Spirit AND by His own power, too. For many think that Jesus emptied a portion of His deity or give up His divine powers; However, we learn that Jesus still had power to quicken as the Father can quicken (John 5:21). For Jesus said, "No one takes it away from me; on the contrary, I lay it down of my own free will. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it up again. This is what my Father commanded me to do.” (John 10:18 CJB); And Jesus also said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19).

In fact, when Jesus purged our sins He was upholding all things by the word of His power. Power. So Jesus had power even on the cross.

Hebrews 1:3

"...upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"




​

Be careful in Christology. Heresy is creeping in every corner.
It is better to say "I do not understand" rather than teach without understanding.

The Trinity is not a something that can be grasped by the human mind. Don't make any compromises of Truth just to get it to fit into a finite human understanding.

I have no problem in understanding the Trinity (i.e. the Godhead). The Lord our God is one God who exists in three distinct persons (i.e. the Father, the Word (Christ), and the Holy Ghost). Each person of the Godhead are all God. As a whole they are one God and are connected as one God and are not separate from one another. They have the capacity to dwell within one another. I believe the Word (Who is the Eternal Christ) came down into the flesh of a woman named Mary (who was a virgin at conception and birth). I believe Modalism is unbiblical. I also believe Christ restricted and or suppressed His Omniscience so as to be like a man so as to be our substitute. I believe Jesus is the only Savior. He is the only way to Heaven. Salvation is only Him by faith (When we confess or repent of our sins and accept Him). Jesus died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected three days later so as to give us a new life in Him .

 

[SolidGround]

Yes, He was tempted, but it was external temptation only. Everyone here is dancing around the meaning of "internal temptation" or what it means to be "tempted internally." They are quitely tip toeing around this point so as not to face it so as to save face. Perhaps you will have the courage to think about the logic behind it.

Think. If I was tempted internally, does that not imply that I have to have some wrong desire for the thing that I am being tempted with? Yes, or no?

Did Jesus have wrong desires that kept buried inside Him? Would this be like a sin nature? But if Jesus has a sin nature, then how can we see He did not have sin, or unstained, holy, etc. (See Hebrews 7:25).



Agreed.



Jesus worked miracles by the Holy Spirit AND by His own power, too. For many think that Jesus emptied a portion of His deity or give up His divine powers; However, we learn that Jesus still had power to quicken as the Father can quicken (John 5:21). For Jesus said, "No one takes it away from me; on the contrary, I lay it down of my own free will. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it up again. This is what my Father commanded me to do.” (John 10:18 CJB); And Jesus also said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19).

In fact, when Jesus purged our sins He was upholding all things by the word of His power. Power. So Jesus had power even on the cross.

Hebrews 1:3

"...upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"​

I believe in the Trinity (i.e. Godhead: Which is the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost). I believe the Word (Who is the Eternal Christ) came down into the flesh of a woman named Mary (who was a virgin at conception and birth). I believe Modalism is unbiblical. I also believe Christ restricted and or suppressed His Omniscience so as to be like a man so as to be our substitute. I believe Jesus is the only Savior. He is the only way to Heaven. Salvation is only Him by faith (When we confess or repent of our sins and accept Him). Jesus died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected three days later so as to give us a new life in Him .

What you are describing is Hypostatic Dualism, rather than Union.

From birth to death, Christ laid aside His power.
The miracles were not of Himself, but by the working of the Spirit.
If they were of Himself, it would contradict much of His own teaching.

Modalism is a separate thing.

As long as you grasp that the works of Christ, besides His own Resurrection, were done:
through the power of the Holy Spirit alone, at the Will of the Father alone, by the obedience of Christ alone,
and that Christ is both man and God and yet a single person and nature,
then you understand Hypostatic Union.

 

[Jason0047]

No.
Temptation does not require previous sin or even sin nature, as was proven by Adam and Eve.

And Jesus proved that man can be tempted and yet overcome temptation and remain without sin!
(He is our inspiration to do the same)

Yes, I am aware of Adam and Eve. I heard this one like a billion times already, my friend. Yet, what did Adam and Eve have that God (Christ) does not? Adam and Eve had the capacity to go outside God's will. God (Christ) cannot go outside His own will because such a thing would be sin. See, noting has changed. Adam and Eve started off good, but then they made a choice that God could never do. Sin against God. God cannot sin against Himself, either in exclusive Spirit and or inhabitiang the flesh of a man (While suppressing the divien attribute of Omniscience so as to be like a man). For the Scriptures say that there is no darkness in God. Yet you would have me believe that Jesus had the potential for darkness. Sorry. I believe God is perfect and Holy under every circumstance. It is just what the Scriptures teach and common sense.

 

[Jason0047]

What you are describing is Hypostatic Dualism, rather than Union.

How so?

From birth to death, Christ laid aside His power.

Uh, just showed you several passages that refutes this type of thinking. Did you miss them? Jesus said He would raise up this Temple 3 days later, etc.

The miracles were not of Himself, but by the working of the Spirit.

No, no. John 5:21 says that just as the Father quickens whom He wills, the Son can also quicken whom He wills. Then there is Hebrews 1:3 that says Jesus upheld all things by the word of HIS POWER while He purged of us of our sins while on the cross. So Jesus had power, my friend.

If they were of Himself, it would contradict much of His own teaching.

Not following you with this statement.

Modalism is a separate thing.

The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father, etc.

As long as you grasp that the works of Christ, besides His own Resurrection, were done:
through the power of the Holy Spirit alone, at the Will of the Father alone, by the obedience of Christ alone,
and that Christ is both man and God and yet a single person and nature,
then you understand Hypostatic Union.

Again, I see nothing in the Scriptures that proposes that it was the Spirit alone who gave power to Christ. Christ forgave sins, and Christ had power to quicken, and hold all things together by the Word of His power while on the cross.

 

[Human]

The devil can present a temptation, tempt a person, but a person may or may not actually be tempted. Now I, a corruptible man, may be enticed to consider something not right I'm tempted with, I don't know, some lard cake bad for health, and I'm really tempted, knowing it's no good, sweet poison. Or, that temptation may be a just absurd, like, instead of lard cake, a waiter with his tray, "Yum! How about pick of the crop, giant fried, double chocolate grasshoppers for dessert?" No way!

Our Lord Jesus, the God man, with the fullness of the Holy Spirit, being presented a sinful temptation, I believe was, "No way." Sin, and from Satan, no less, was to Him probably like grasshoppers to me. Also,

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

Bottom line, our Lord Jesus was, though in the flesh, God. Sure, He felt our temptation, but, unlike me, I believe Jesus would have even been, as if, "When pigs fly," if the devil offered lard cake, which corruptible, sinful flesh me may buckle and eat, though would have sworn I'd not. Does that make sense? Tempted by Satan, but our Lord not for a second considering taking him up on anything, that is, Jesus not one to contemplate, be actually tempted to sin, to do evil, for His holiness?

It's contradictory to say a temptation doesn't tempt. If it doesn't tempt, it's not a temptation, is it?

There's no point offering a man with a full stomach a banana. It's not a temptation to him, because he is full. The key imagery here is, Jesus was not full, in fact, he was starving. Of COURSE he was tempted. That's the entire point.

 

[SolidGround]

Well Jason, keep in the study. You are digging into some good soils!

John gives a pretty clear view of Christ as a person and as God. The last half is where you will find some interesting phrases that Christ uses about Himself.

Blessings and peace