Whatever dude....your fallacy is obvious.....Jesus was TEMPTED in ALL point like we are...you reject this and promote things that are not true....You teach a different Jesus than what the bible teaches...quite simple....so good luck with that!
Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.
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Whatever dude....your fallacy is obvious.....Jesus was TEMPTED in ALL point like we are...you reject this and promote things that are not true....You teach a different Jesus than what the bible teaches...quite simple....so good luck with that!
Being tempted, is being tempted Jason...I agree in the fact that Jesus had no bad intentions ever in life, I agree that He was the spotless lamb, what I don't agree with is you taking out the manly nature of Jesus, He was tempted, He was humiliated, He took more pain then most could handle as a MAN and God.
Actually 183....about half teaching the truth and the other half rejecting the truth...oh wait...now 184 hah!
Not really going to read anything of what you write anymore until you can show that you care and love for a change. All I get is the same old rip cord recording and Ad Hominems.
So please do not reply to me.
I will not read what you have written.
Please be well.
And God bless you.
Nothing new with you as you have rejected the truth from the first quoted verse...!
Well, then you are in disagreement with Dan58 and not in agreement with him. He was talking about external temptation and does not believe Jesus was internally tempted. I believe Jesus Christ was 100% fully flesh and blood whereby He took on his sins within his body and paid the price for them with his death. But Jesus did not take on a human soul or a human spirit so as to be tempted like us. Jesus had a physical human body. Yes. But the Eternal Son of God in Spirit was always the same in essence in being impeccable and good. No such temptation existed internally, even if Christ did have carnal flesh or a human spirit that tempted him, Christ would have not even considered those temptations ever. But Jesus did not have a flawed human spirit or soul that fused or was added to His divine eternal spirit. No carnal flesh tempted Jesus because He had to be the spotless Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. You can't clean with dirt. You can only clean something unclean with something that is clean.
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Paul tells us in Thessalonians to keep your soul, spirit, and body blameless until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 - "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Paul then says in Hebrews that our soul and our spirit can be divided asunder by the Word of God.
Hebrews 4:12 - "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
What this means is that when a person responds to the powerful message of God's Word by accepting Christ, their old spirit is cut away from their soul and is then replaced with a new reborn spirit (i.e. they are born again spiritually into God's Kingdom).
So we have three distinct parts that all function as one just as God has three distinct parts to Him that function as one.
Soul = Makes the ultimate decisions.
Body = Earthly body that can influence you into fleshy or worldly matters.
Spirit body = Spiritual body that can influence you into spiritual matters.
The soul, body, and spirit all function as one living human being in perfect harmony.
Father = Greater than the Son & has given commands to the Son.
Word = The Word became flesh in the man named Jesus.
Holy Spirit = The Comforter is the Spirit of God that is given to true believers.
The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit all function as one God in perfect harmony.
Did Jesus have the eternal soul of God alone, or did He have a human soul, too?
First, many assume that just because the Bible mentions the word "soul" in connection with Jesus, this means that He must have had a human soul. However, the Lord our God is mentioned as having a soul in Scripture, too (Leviticus 26:11) (Leviticus 26:30) (Isaiah 42:1) (Zechariah 11:8) (Hebrews 10:38).
Also, Scripture does not specifically say that the Spirit of Christ possessed the soul of a man, nor does it say that it was necessary for the Lord to create a human soul for Himself in order to pay the price for our sins, either. On the contrary, Christ paid for the penalty of our sins by condemning them in the flesh.
Romans 8:3 - "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh."
Veritably, the idea that sin is within the body is confirmed to us when Paul speaks about no good thing dwells within his flesh or the body (Romans 7:14-20). In fact, Paul makes reference of how he wishes to be delivered from his body of death (Romans 7:24). He does not say that he wishes to be delivered from his own soul or spirit, though.
In addition, if Jesus had a human soul, then Jesus would be contradicting himself, when he said,
"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
In other words, if Jesus was a man with a human soul, then he would have to be born again like everyone else. However, Jesus was no ordinary man. He was the God man. He was the Word made flesh; And the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within him bodily.
Also, how do you define the human soul of Jesus anyways?
Is it specifically mentioned in Scripture?
Did Christ possess a separate unique human soul that had their own individuality?
Did Christ create a tailor made soul that reflected his own soul? If so, then why? What would be the purpose?
In addition, did his disciples worship the soul / spirit of a man alongside the spirit of God? Would that not be blasphemous?
Now, many like to quote the famous passage in 1st Corinthians in support that Christ had a human soul.
1 Corinthians 15:45 - "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
Now, if you stop in your reading here then you can interpret this as speaking as if God made a human spirit for Jesus. However, lets keep reading to get the proper context, though.
1 Corinthians 15:46-47 - "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."
Wow, did you catch that? It says the first man was earthy and the second man was the Lord from Heaven. So the last Adam was made a quickening spirit in the sense that He was the Lord from Heaven. He was made (in the flesh) to be a quickening (life giving) Spirit because He was the Word made flesh.
John 1:14 - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
John 1:4 - "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."
John 1:9-10 - "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."
First, many assume that just because the Bible mentions the word "soul" in connection with Jesus, this means that He must have had a human soul. However, the Lord our God is mentioned as having a soul in Scripture, too (Leviticus 26:11) (Leviticus 26:30) (Isaiah 42:1) (Zechariah 11:8) (Hebrews 10:38).
Also, Scripture does not specifically say that the Spirit of Christ possessed the soul of a man, nor does it say that it was necessary for the Lord to create a human soul for Himself in order to pay the price for our sins, either. On the contrary, Christ paid for the penalty of our sins by condemning them in the flesh.
Romans 8:3 - "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh."
Veritably, the idea that sin is within the body is confirmed to us when Paul speaks about no good thing dwells within his flesh or the body (Romans 7:14-20). In fact, Paul makes reference of how he wishes to be delivered from his body of death (Romans 7:24). He does not say that he wishes to be delivered from his own soul or spirit, though.
In addition, if Jesus had a human soul, then Jesus would be contradicting himself, when he said,
"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
In other words, if Jesus was a man with a human soul, then he would have to be born again like everyone else. However, Jesus was no ordinary man. He was the God man. He was the Word made flesh; And the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within him bodily.
Also, how do you define the human soul of Jesus anyways?
Is it specifically mentioned in Scripture?
Did Christ possess a separate unique human soul that had their own individuality?
Did Christ create a tailor made soul that reflected his own soul? If so, then why? What would be the purpose?
In addition, did his disciples worship the soul / spirit of a man alongside the spirit of God? Would that not be blasphemous?
Now, many like to quote the famous passage in 1st Corinthians in support that Christ had a human soul.
1 Corinthians 15:45 - "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
Now, if you stop in your reading here then you can interpret this as speaking as if God made a human spirit for Jesus. However, lets keep reading to get the proper context, though.
1 Corinthians 15:46-47 - "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."
Wow, did you catch that? It says the first man was earthy and the second man was the Lord from Heaven. So the last Adam was made a quickening spirit in the sense that He was the Lord from Heaven. He was made (in the flesh) to be a quickening (life giving) Spirit because He was the Word made flesh.
John 1:14 - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
John 1:4 - "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."
John 1:9-10 - "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."
quite the contrary. A council never has final authority. The Holy Spirit working in and through the Body of Christ determines and is the final arbiter of Truth just as scripture states, I Tim 3:15. At that point in time the Body had four centuries of having the Gospel. The Body is NOT just those living at that time.
Yes, I quoted you scripture. You already have had all the scripture necessary to show your view is NOT scriptural. But then you depend on your opinion and hope you get some more favorable opinions for support, even though you cannot prove your view from scripture, only by your interpretation.
Yes, he's saying the scripture is not true there, he's saying Jesus was not tempted, I ask him what a soul is, he gives me three more paragraphs.. Mind, heart, will, emotions ..Jason, that's you, that's your soul.. The Spirit of God is something completely different..We are made in His image Jason.. His image
have you ever heard of anthropomorphisms? That is what these are. We cannot define or explain God who is unknowable. We know Him only through His uncreated energies not His essence. You are going off the track here with purely man made conjecture trying to find something to support your errant view. In doing so you may have contributed more heresy than anything of substance.
Christ did more than just pay for sins. In the debates regarding His Incarnation, the Church Fathers stated that what was assumed by Christ is saved by Christ. What is not assumed was not saved. So, if Christ saved man then He saved all of man, his body, his soul, his will. We know that from Heb 2:14-17 where it gives us the content of the Incarnation of what would constitute His humanity. Respective of your question of the soul, our souls are not immortal, they are created, just as our bodies were created. We also know that Christ redeemed our souls, because in I Cor 15:52-54 it clearly states that by His resurrection ALL MEN WILL BE RAISED immortal and incorruptible. That includes our souls. In revelation the souls of believers who were persecuted and martyred at the time of John writing Revelation speak of our souls as being present, thus immortal. We can speak about the immortality of man because we know that Christ arose from the dead and gave life to the world.
I might also add that your understanding of what Christ accomplished by His Incarnation is stunted as well. Christ did not just save us from sin, but the condemnation of sin, which was death. Christ overcame death by His resurrection.
Romans 8:3 - "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh."
Veritably, the idea that sin is within the body is confirmed to us when Paul speaks about no good thing dwells within his flesh or the body (Romans 7:14-20). In fact, Paul makes reference of how he wishes to be delivered from his body of death (Romans 7:24). He does not say that he wishes to be delivered from his own soul or spirit, though. [/quote] Sin is not IN the flesh. The flesh causes us to sin. When we die,sin dies. When our body dies sin dies as well. We will all be raised immortal and incorruptible.
so little understanding. How could Christ be united with Himself? Our rebirth is reunited with Christ in a relationship.
Why would it be necessary? Can you actually even describe the soul of man?
You are far afield on this one. I Cor 15 is the resurrection chapter. In its entirity it is speaking of the work of Christ which is made valid by His resurrection. The verses to which you are referring is speaking of the order of Christ's work which was exactly opposite of Adam. Adam had a relationship with God (spiritual) and was condemned to death, (physical). Christ in reversing the fall, also reverses the sequence. Christ defeated death, so that man might again join with God in a spiritual relationship. Christ was resurrected by the Spirit, the same Spirit which dwells in us. It is that same Spirit that will resurrect us in the last day which is why it is called a life giving Spirit.
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God made man in his image but yet we are not God.
You need more info on the soul, spirit, and body. Here you go.
ECT What is Your View of the Soul, Spirit, and the Body? - Theology Online | Christian Forums & More
I did an indepth study on the soul spirit, and body for a while. Did you do an indepth study on it?
Do you deny Scripture that says God has a soul? Yes, God's soul is uncreated and it is eternal. But God has a mind, will, and emotions. That is what a soul is. It is the essence of a person's being that controls both the spirit body (in the spirit realm) and the physical body in the physical realm. In Revelation 6:9, John talks about seeing the souls of those who were slain for the Word of God. These are dead people. Yet John talks about how they are souls. They are not alive.
Do you deny Scripture that says God has a soul? Yes, God's soul is uncreated and it is eternal. But God has a mind, will, and emotions. That is what a soul is. It is the essence of a person's being that controls both the spirit body (in the spirit realm) and the physical body in the physical realm. In Revelation 6:9, John talks about seeing the souls of those who were slain for the Word of God. These are dead people. Yet John talks about how they are souls. They are not alive.
You can't know a person's heart or intentions back then. You are not God to know who is saved or unsaved. You can have an idea of who might be a true follower, but even followers of Jesus had turned back in following him. There are also those who preach another Jesus, too. This is what I believe what one is doing if they believe Jesus could do potential evil. That the Holy Son of God actually was internally tempted. As if there was some kind of darkness he struggled with. Sorry, the Scriptures say there is no darkness in God. And Jesus is God. So Jesus was externally tempted. Not internally tempted. Jesus could no more consider in doing evil than for rain in not being wet. If you disagree. Please provide Scripture.
What verses are we talking about? You have to bring up a set of verses proving your case. I really didn't see that from anyone here. I seen two verses being pushed alot and just a lot of hot air.
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V
VioletReigns
Guest
Brother Jason, when the devil asked Jesus to turn the rocks into bread when the Lord had been fasting for over a month, was Jesus tempted to think about it for a second or two out of hunger? When our Savior was in the Garden of Gethsemane sweating drops of blood and asked the Father to please take the cup from Him, was Jesus at first tempted not to accept the cup? When Jesus was on the Cross and screamed in agony, "Father, why have You forsaken Me?" was He tempted to believe the Father forsook Him?
Yes, I am aware of the souls in Heaven in Revelation. I just brought it up recently (Without seeing your post yet here). Yes, our souls will be redeemed, but our sins are paid by his blood and sacrifice on the cross. His resurrection conquered the punishment of sin (Which is death). Our souls are redeemed by his sacrifice and resurrection. This is basic gospel. You are complicating it. Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus had to redeem us with a human soul or human spirit. The sins were in his body. It doesn't say the sin was in his human spirit or human soul. Find a passage that says that.
Jesus bore our sins within his body (1 Peter 2:24). Jesus received the cup of sin in the Garden Gethsmane. That is why he sweat great drops of blood and why he desired for the cup (that had all our sins within it) to pass if there was another way to save us. But immediately He knew there was no other way and He expressed how the Father's will should be done.
If sin was already present as Jesus' body, then we have to believe Jesus was carrying on our sins since his birth. Which is ridiculous to believe. See, born into this world without sin. He was born of the seed of the woman and not of the seed of man. Sin is passed down thru the male seed. It is medically proven that the blood of a baby soley comes from the father. Have you ever thought about why God visited the sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generations? Have you ever thought about why genealogies are reckoned primarily thru men and never men?
The father's seed carries the sin to his father or daughter thru the blood from his seed.
Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection. He is the firstborn of many brethren. Jesus Christ is the Last or Second Adam that willl give rise to many that will be as innummerable as the stars. These bodies will not be corrupted with sin because Jesus body was never corrupted with sin. Jesus only temporarily took on our sin in the Garden of Gethsamen and was wounded for our transgressions and died upon the cross to pay the penalty for our sin. Sin and death were conquered by his physical resurrection. Jesus then ascended to Heaven physically (After talking to Mary) and entered the Holy Temple up in Heaven by his blood so as to be our eternal Heavenly High Priest (And be our mediator between God the Father and man). Jesus then returned to be with his disciples for 40 days and gave them the Holy Spirit.
Already did within this post and I provided more of an explanation on it's functions with a link.
Yes, these passage are talking about Jesus' resurrection and how that relates to the bodily resurrection. But the Last Adam (Jesuus) was the Lord from Heaven. That is what the Scriptures say. The last Adam was made (in the flesh) to be a quickening spirit so as to give life to us. Jesus said not only does the Father quicken, but Jesus said He quickens and brings life to people, too. It's how Jesus could forgive (cleanse) sin and raise the dead of his own body (Which he called the Temple).
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No, that would be called adding to Scripture. The Scriptures never say Jesus thought about for a second or two. Jesus answered the devil with Scripture how man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God that proceeds out of his mouth. If Jesus considered the devil's offer for a sccond or two, then that would be wrong desire or lust (By giving into his temptation). Jesus said if a man looks upon a woman in lust (wrong desire) then they have committed adultery already in their heart. Doesn't matter if a man considers in looking at a woman in lust for a second or two. It is still wrong to consider in looking at a woman in lust. To contemplate in doing evil or not is not a Holy act but it is an evil one that leads one done the path to sin and corruption. So no. Jesus never thought about eating the bread. Jesus immediately rebuked the devil and had victory over him.
As I stated before within this thread, Jesus did not reject in going to the cross in this moment. Jesus did not have a moment of weakness. Jesus here was not outside the Father's will. Jesus was simply asking the Father if there was another way to save us, but then He instantly knew that there was no other way and He quickly agreed with the Father's plan to save us by going to the cross. This was not a refusal of going to the cross, but it was Jesus exploring with the Father (If there was some other way). If Jesus did not truly want to go to the cross, then he would have said to the Father that He just didn't want to do it despite the Father's will. So there was no refusal of receiving the cup. Jesus never refused the cup. He was merely asking if there was some other way (Just tto be sure). In fact, if Jesud did refuse in going to the cross, by his statement of "let this cup pass from me" then Jesus would be hypocritcal for rebuking Peter when Peter did not desire Jesus to go to the cross. Jesus went so far as to call Peter.... Satan for suggesting such a thing.
No, Jesus felt a separation from the Father, but Jesus KNEW that He was not separated, because He quoted the Psalm of David (i.e. Psalm 22) that let him knew that God the Father did not leave him nor forsake Him. See, Jesus does what He sees the Father doing. So if Jesus will never leave you nor forsake you, then you better believe the Father never left the Son (And Jesus knew this; - That's why He quoted the Psalm that says that).
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