Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.

[secularhermit]

May I respectfully ask Jason?

Do you preach Jesus to believers or to unbelievers? I just wondered it, because I used to work in street preaching, were Christian beliefs are better welcome (and less shared).

If He was God, at the same time, there were prerrogatives I surely don´t have, for being a sinner, and Jesus did not sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is human reasoning that cannot be supported by the Scriptures. Nowhere does the Scriptures say Jesus struggled with sin as we did.

Who said he struggled? Now your putting words in my mouth, I never said this.

I do nto struggle with some of my sins, Yet I am tempted by them all the time.

Hebrews 2, and Hebrews 4 is talking about external temptation and can easily be understood and read from that perspective which it was intended to be read. Nowhere does the Scripture say that Jesus had to struggle with sin as we do to be our Savior. Jesus took on sin within his body and then died for ous sins on the cross and then conquered the punishment for sin and death with rising from the dead. That's the gospel. There is no reason to complicate it.

lol. Eternal huh? Now who is adding to the word of God. No where in those passages does it say anything about eternal anything.

Now do you want to keep twisting the word of God. or discuss what I said? for nothing you said here proves me wrong, nore does it even attempt to show where I am wrong and why

 

[Jason0047]

Really? but in waht sense? Because I don´t want to be derailed from the OP.

It has everything to do with the original post. In Hebrews 7:26 we learn that Jesus is separate from sinners, holy, and undefiled. This relates to how He was not tempted internally.

Mat_9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Don't see how this verse proves Jesus struggled with sin.

Joh_10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

This verse actually destroys the notion that Jesus struggled with sin. Jesus had life and He came to give to men more abundantly. This is speaking of eternal life. If Jesus was someone who could give life to people, it is logical to assume that there was no spiritual death or spiritual darkness within Jesus (i.e. sin that He struggled with).

 

[Brainfreeze]

No, my friend. The claim that Jesus was tempted internally is not irrelevant. It is wrong and evil to suggest such a thing. If Jesus is God (And He is God) then to claim that God can be tempted to do evil or wrong is not right. It's wrong on so many levels and yet people are not able to see that. They it was okay for Jesus to consider in doing evil because he had a human side and that human side would not conflict with His divine and Holy side. But darkness of any kind within God would conflict within Jesus Christ who is God Almighty in the flesh. Jesus is the Light to a dark and dying world. Jesus cannot have darkness in Himself (so as to be tempted) to do any wrong. It's not possible. Now, if you say Jesus is not God, then your claim that Jesus could have potentially sinned would make sense. But we both know Jesus is God. So to say that God can sin is a contradiction against His perfect, Holy, sinnless, and impeccable character.

Even if you don't want to do something, if I ask the question, it was done, my mission is complete, the question was asked. The thought was answered, yes or no, that's it ... That's tempting someone.. Scripture says that happened and Jesus not only heard it, but gave a response.. Simple

 

[Jason0047]

Who said he struggled? Now your putting words in my mouth, I never said this.

I do nto struggle with some of my sins, Yet I am tempted by them all the time.



lol. Eternal huh? Now who is adding to the word of God. No where in those passages does it say anything about eternal anything.

Now do you want to keep twisting the word of God. or discuss what I said? for nothing you said here proves me wrong, nore does it even attempt to show where I am wrong and why

Do you believe Jesus had the potential to sin? Yes, or no?
If Jesus was tempted internally by sin, how is that not a struggle or battle with sin on some level?
For do you not agree with the false interpretation on Hebrews 4 that says He can comfort us by the fact that He was tempted in alll points like us internally?

 

[Jason0047]

Even if you don't want to do something, if I ask the question, it was done, my mission is complete, the question was asked. The thought was answered, yes or no, that's it ... That's tempting someone.. Scripture says that happened and Jesus not only heard it, but gave a response.. Simple

You don't want to see the evil implied by folks saying Jesus is tempted internally. I see it as evil in making that statement. You should, too. But if you don't want to see it, that is your choice.

 

[Jason0047]

May I respectfully ask Jason?

Do you preach Jesus to believers or to unbelievers? I just wondered it, because I used to work in street preaching, were Christian beliefs are better welcome (and less shared).

If He was God, at the same time, there were prerrogatives I surely don´t have, for being a sinner, and Jesus did not sin.

Whether you preached on the street or not does not mean you have correct doctrine. There are many who preach another Jesus. Surely folks can preach a false Jesus on the streets, too. Jehovah's Witnesses preach a false Jesus at people's doors. Just because they preach boldly doesn't mean that what they are preaching is correct.

 

[Jason0047]

Do you think for one second that there is darkness in Jesus Christ? That Jesus had the potential to actually sin but simply chose not to sin? I am sorry, Jesus is good. Jesus is God.

The moment someone called Jesus "good" He Himself addressed that "glory" to GOD, saying there´s only ONE who is good...

When He was trasnfigured, into the one He really was in heaven, John, James and Pete heard GOD speaking on behalf of His own son, saying: "He is the one I am well pleased... listen to Him..."

Have you read that, Jason?
Jesus himself rejected what you tried to defend and Jesus saw with disdain, or rejectable.

Jesus said He was the "Good Shepherd." So yes, Jesus was claiming to be "good." Which means He was God who is incapable of doing sin or evil. For there is none good but God. And Jesus is God. It's so simple. Don't complicate it, my friend.

 

[dcontroversal]

Who said he struggled? Now your putting words in my mouth, I never said this.

I do nto struggle with some of my sins, Yet I am tempted by them all the time.



lol. Eternal huh? Now who is adding to the word of God. No where in those passages does it say anything about eternal anything.

Now do you want to keep twisting the word of God. or discuss what I said? for nothing you said here proves me wrong, nore does it even attempt to show where I am wrong and why

He does that quite a bit, while rejecting the actual words of the bible, the context of the bible and statements of fact that come from the bible.......flip flop like a fish out of water..!

 

[Jason0047]

You made me think about those moments he also like to take the passover... and He would like to TAKE it, next time, when He comes back.

Luk_22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

This is talking about the suffering that Jesus would endure when He went to the cross. This is not talking about how he struggled with sin or how he was tempted internally.

Mat_9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Mat_11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

These statements were false claims against Jesus. Jesus did not get drunk on wine and nor did Jesus become a glutton at any point. Both of those things would be considered as sins; And Jesus never sinned.

 

[secularhermit]

You are right!

At least I see you´re not a JW and also believe you have the sound doctrine (which is good, by the way).

I have no truth in me, I´m not sure or sound, because most of all I know from the Bible I belived in faith (I wasn´t there to confirm) (and I have heard his voice only one).

My curiosity (not my concern) it was to know how you deal and impart this faith with UNBELIEVERS, because I have seen how you share what you believe in several other forums, and I´m not saying you are wrong or wrost than me, sir: These are things and matter of faith.

My utter concern is (and will be) if He would take me to a better place, here on earth or another place (it doesn´t matter where, except hell) and I´m sure I need to endure what I believed and, any day, I will die witnessing (being martyrized) for believing my own way, not another´s ways.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you believe Jesus had the potential to sin? Yes, or no?

I beieve angels had the potential to sin. 1/3 of them did, 2/3 did not

I believe man was created in Gods image, With free will. We see how that went.

God is a god of love, that is why he would never sin, but to say he does not have free will and able as a man, is to not know what free will means.

If Jesus was tempted internally by sin, how is that not a struggle or battle with sin on some level?
For do you not agree with the false interpretation on Hebrews 4 that says He can comfort us by the fact that He was tempted in alll points like us internally?

15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

The word internal is not there, your adding to the word. Very dangerous,

 

[secularhermit]

True, sir Gratefull!

"The word internal is not there, your adding to the word. Very dangerous,"

Thanks for telling him that. He is used to add and i don´t know where he got the idea of "Jesus darkness" because He is light (and also light has "the potencial" to travel or to be deterred and stopped.

 

[SolidGround]

When you see Christ on the Last Day, and He says, "I was tempted, and overcame, yet you accuse me of sin because I was tempted?" How will you answer?
Do you not see that you accuse Christ of having darkness within Him?

The Word says He was tempted. You say temptation is sin.

 

[SolidGround]

The source of sin is disobedience.
The source of purity is in obedience.

What would the point be, if obedience was out of compulsion rather than out of love?
The Messiah that you have proposed is not one who earned Glory.
Jesus Christ came in the flesh,
and conquered it!
It was NOT easy. And because of the impossible difficulty, His obedience to the Father has earned Him ALL GLORY.
Read Revelation.

He threw off Glory,
and then earned it back.
What an amazing Saviour!

We praise Him, not only for who He is, but also for what He has done!
I don't praise robots when they do what they were built to do.
We praise Christ, because He was in our shoes, but walked righteous.

 

[secularhermit]

Another thing I see, when we deal with Scripture: In Jesus times the Scripture was the OT.

Jews, like Jesus, organized them in different ranks of IMPORTANCE. I cannot say that "Song of songs" is above the inspiration Moses got to write down the books of the law, for example.

Each time I see the NT, I placed more importance on the Gospel. I cared too little of those who believe Paul´s writings are more inspired than Matt., John Mark or John. For me, the Gospels are the essential key to interpret the OT.

 

[secularhermit]

When you see Christ on the Last Day, and He says, "I was tempted, and overcame, yet you accuse me of sin because I was tempted?" How will you answer?
Do you not see that you accuse Christ of having darkness within Him?

The Word says He was tempted. You say temptation is sin.

Temptations are part of the refining process, life-college evaluations, to see who we are.

 

[Jason0047]

So all humans have free will, but Jesus didn't?
So God, the creator of free will, does not have free will Himself.

Yes, Jesus did not have free will to do evil because Jesus is God and God cannot do evil under any cirumstance. It doesn't matter if God took on flesh and it doesn't matter if God suppressed His Omniscience. God is still God; And the Israelites worshiped the same God that we do today. The body of Jesus is just a Temple. Jesus said so Himself.

So Jesus did not choose to be righteous, but righteousness was forced upon Him?

Jesus is God and therefore because Jesus is God He can only do that which is righteous and good. It is impossible for God to do anything sinful or to potentially do anything sinful. Such a thing would run contrary to the nature of Who God is.

Of all beings to possess true free will, Christ is first if not only.

If you believe Jesus is truly God then this would not be the case. God cannot sin and Jesus is God. Follow the circle of the logic here, my friend.

Do you really think you are defending the holiness of Christ?

Yes, and what exactly are you defending? How God can potentially sin? Again, I need to remind you that Jesus is God when you answer those questions?

You are just redefining what the Word says about purity.

Show proof in Scripture that God is not pure or that Jesus is not pure. Note: This would not apply to Jesus taking on our sins in hid body in the Garden of Gethsemane, etc. We are talking about Jesus in his natural state of being as a man. Did Jesus have darkness with him to potentially sin? If so, then how can He be the Light to men in darkness?

In your logic, the ability to choose is the same thing as sin?

If Jesus was internally tempted by evil, that would mean He would have an interest in the evil put forth given to Him in some way. God cannot be tempted by sin. Jesus is God. And around the circle of logic goes, my friend.

Don't let pride overtake you. It is okay to accept the Bible for what it is. Christianity doesn't need a new Messiah,
It needs men to follow the Messiah that was sent. Don't re-form the Word to fit your views,
but let God reform your views to fit the Word.

If you continue seeing yourself as a revolutionary teacher, the only revolution occurring is a revolt and rebellion against the foundation of The Faith,
which is Christ: the Cornerstone, and also a Stumbling Block.

Keep Christ, Logos/the Word, as your Cornerstone, not your Stumbling Block.

I could say the same exact thing to you. But that really doesn't mean anything, though. For the real proof in the pudding is what does Scripture say? What does common sense say? What kind of real world examples can you show that back up the Scriptures in your interpretation on Scripture? For Jesus illustrated spiritual truth by real world examples (i.e. parables). That's the real proof. Not empty opinions or statements that attempt to attack me and not the doctrine.

 

[secularhermit]

Joh_10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh_10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Can you see it better, brother?:

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.
I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He wasn´t a robot.

 

[Jason0047]

I beieve angels had the potential to sin. 1/3 of them did, 2/3 did not

I believe man was created in Gods image, With free will. We see how that went.

God is a god of love, that is why he would never sin, ....

Stop right here! Don't go any further down the rabbit hole of confusion. Hold onto to this truth right here and don't let it go. God would never sin. Jesus is God so that means Jesus would never have sinned. Meaning, there was no real internal temptation going on inside of Jesus. All his temptation was external only.

15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

The word internal is not there, your adding to the word. Very dangerous,

Sorry, but this is just not true. You are going to naturally insert your own interpretation on whether it is internal temptation or external temptation based on your understanding of the rest of Scripture in regards to the text in Hebrews. In your case, you assume..... *cough*.... assume.... that the text must be talking about temptation being both external and internal. Yet Scripture does not say that it is both, though. See, if you believe Jeus had the potential to do sin or evil, then you don't really believe Hebrews 7:26 that says Jesus is separate from sinners, holy, and undefiled. You really don't believe Jesus is the spotless Lamb. You really don't believe Jesus is the Light that shines to men who are in darkness. Oh, sure. You might say you do (And you might be able to fool yourself into thinking that), but you really can't believe that fully or deep down because you also believe that Jesus had the capacity to do sin or evil (i.e. to be internally tempted). However, God cannot be internally tempted by sin, though; And Jesus is God. Grab ahold of that truth that Jesus is God, my friend. Then the rest of the Scriptures will become clear.