144,000

[Bookends]

who cares?

1. They do, it is theirs, it is precious to them, you want to know how precious it is to them, Read the first part of Daniel 9 and how he grieves over the land, destroyed because of him and his peoples sin.
2. God. God cares because he promised he would never forget his promise to them. He even promised when they were not in their land, And in the hands of their enemies, he would NEVER forget them, NEVER forget his promise to them, and NEVER let them die.

Now tell me, if the land and nation mean nothing to God. Why through the two gentile people who took Israel as slaves (syria and babylon) and the final and COMPLETE removal (which did not happen in the first two, for their were still people in the land, even in captivity) by the roman army, Did God care to keep their bloodline in tact, why did he not just let them intermingle with gentile people, and let the nation die off. I mean like you said, it does not matter, we are all saved the same way, and all that matters is heaven.

I know the reason why. He did not want them to die as a nation, because he made a promise to them, And he did nto want to break his promise or his love for them, as shown in Romans 11. And even in revelation. And all the OT prophesies concerning their dispersion (complete) and return. and even the fact he will PUNISH the nations who sinned against Israel and did not treat them with care when they were in their hands.

EG, the lasting promise was what Abraham longed for, for he thought himself a sojourner in His land, he wasn't looking forward to a physical land, but a spiritual one. Hebrews 11:10, for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
We are all looking for the same city EG, Hebrews 13:14, For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.

You really ware me out EG, lol.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus is telling the church of Philadelphia that, the whole world,, meaning whole land region, not the whole earth. The 1st Church was going through a tough time, persecution from both the Roman and Jewish governments and their people. You have to have know my answer EG. We may go though a similar think, idk. The spiritual true we can gleam from this is if we overcome the world, persevere, we win.

oikoumenē
1) the inhabited earth
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians
1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
1c) the whole inhabited earth, the world
1d) the inhabitants of the earth, men
2) the universe, the world

Also, Earth, Greek word "ge"

Thayer Definition:
1) arable land
2) the ground, the earth as a standing place
3) the main land as opposed to the sea or water
4) the earth as a whole
4a) the earth as opposed to the heavens
4b) the inhabited earth, the abode of men and animals
5) a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region

lol. Well sorry, I can not agree with you.

Revelations, and the judgments spoken of in it, are worldwide, Not limited to a small area of the globe.

Kings scream at the judgment of God Kings from all over.

You should know just because something CAN be translated one way, does not mean it SHOULD be

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is theirs? Who says? Last I checked everything belongs to the LORD.

God's promise to them was a savior, and God delivered.

God said it was theirs.

God is still delivering.

Eternal either means eternal. or God lied.

Does your God lie? (think about what you say, because that is what you are claiming)

It was his when he gave it to them, that is why he gave them a grace gift, if it was not his to give to begin with, He could not give it to them now could he?

 

[Bookends]

think about it bro.

When daniel was given his prophesies concerning the 4 beasts. People (including him) had no idea the 4th beast would be rome, let alone who the second or third beast were.

When the prophesies concerning the suffering servant were given, People had no idea that this person and the messiah would be the same person

Prophesy is this way, We can not use as an excuse that people then could not know. that is how prophesy usually is.

That is why I can not know exactly how things will happen, Like those people back then, I just have to trust that God said it will happen, thus it will. And not question him.

Don't depend on what the prophets of old said, remember Paul says in Eph. their knowledge of the mystery was clouded, unclear. The clarity came with the NT writings, once Jesus came and the Holy Spirit, the veil was lifted God's eternal purpose was revealed to them. The NT provides clarity to the OT, interpret the OT by the NT.

 

[Bookends]

lol. Well sorry, I can not agree with you.

Revelations, and the judgments spoken of in it, are worldwide, Not limited to a small area of the globe.

Kings scream at the judgment of God Kings from all over.

You should know just because something CAN be translated one way, does not mean it SHOULD be

That's fine EG, you say they are worldwide, that's your opinion. My opinion is it's not although I think I have more biblical truth to back it up, and historical external proof.

 

[Bookends]

God said it was theirs.

God is still delivering.

Eternal either means eternal. or God lied.

Does your God lie? (think about what you say, because that is what you are claiming)

It was his when he gave it to them, that is why he gave them a grace gift, if it was not his to give to begin with, He could not give it to them now could he?

No He didn't lie, the promise wasn't for a little piece of land, it's a heavenly promise. The Land Promise all had conditions...IF you obey Me, I will....

 

[Bookends]

lol. Well sorry, I can not agree with you.

Revelations, and the judgments spoken of in it, are worldwide, Not limited to a small area of the globe.

Kings scream at the judgment of God Kings from all over.
You should know just because something CAN be translated one way, does not mean it SHOULD be

Ditto to you too! lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, the lasting promise was what Abraham longed for, for he thought himself a sojourner in His land, he wasn't looking forward to a physical land, but a spiritual one. Hebrews 11:10, for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
We are all looking for the same city EG, Hebrews 13:14, For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.

You really ware me out EG, lol.

1. Abraham was told he would never get the land, but he would be a stranger, so why would he desire to own that. He already knew he would nto get it.
2. Even if I was abraham, Lets see. the eternal kingdom, or land. what would be most important to me?? Hmm, Well what good is land if I do not have eternal life? I get to enjoy it for a few decades, then die, and having nothing? (WHich is what I believe is being said in that passage)

It does not take away form the fact God promised it to them, And daniel made such a powerful meaningful prayer about the land, and God loved him so much, he sent an angel to tell him the answer to his prayer. to show him That God has not forgotten his land, but the sin of Israel has to be completed first.

You wear me out too. lol

 

[Bookends]

God said it was theirs.

God is still delivering.

Eternal either means eternal. or God lied.

Does your God lie? (think about what you say, because that is what you are claiming)

It was his when he gave it to them, that is why he gave them a grace gift, if it was not his to give to begin with, He could not give it to them now could he?

Yes, God is still saving people today...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't depend on what the prophets of old said, remember Paul says in Eph. their knowledge of the mystery was clouded, unclear. The clarity came with the NT writings, once Jesus came and the Holy Spirit, the veil was lifted God's eternal purpose was revealed to them. The NT provides clarity to the OT, interpret the OT by the NT.

Now I am confused.

You said that the people at the time had to know what the prophesy meant, But after it is known (it happened or is revealed) it is ok?

if Paul and John are speaking of future prophesies, then the same thing would apply, The people given the prophesy may not know exactly what it means.

You can not have a double standard, the standard has to apply to all.

 

[Bookends]

1. Abraham was told he would never get the land, but he would be a stranger, so why would he desire to own that. He already knew he would nto get it.
2. Even if I was abraham, Lets see. the eternal kingdom, or land. what would be most important to me?? Hmm, Well what good is land if I do not have eternal life? I get to enjoy it for a few decades, then die, and having nothing? (WHich is what I believe is being said in that passage)

It does not take away form the fact God promised it to them, And daniel made such a powerful meaningful prayer about the land, and God loved him so much, he sent an angel to tell him the answer to his prayer. to show him That God has not forgotten his land, but the sin of Israel has to be completed first.

You wear me out too. lol

OK, I'll give you a break then...

 

[Bookends]

Now I am confused.

You said that the people at the time had to know what the prophesy meant, But after it is known (it happened or is revealed) it is ok?

if Paul and John are speaking of future prophesies, then the same thing would apply, The people given the prophesy may not know exactly what it means.

You can not have a double standard, the standard has to apply to all.

I said that? when?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's fine EG, you say they are worldwide, that's your opinion. My opinion is it's not although I think I have more biblical truth to back it up, and historical external proof.

lol.. Well I think I have more biblical proof.

Bit then again, that kind of argument will prove niether of us right,

Rev states the future beast will have control of every nation, tribe and language, I do not know how much more proof one needs to see this is the whole earth, not just one section of the earth.

Like eternal means eternal. Every must mean every.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No He didn't lie, the promise wasn't for a little piece of land, it's a heavenly promise. The Land Promise all had conditions...IF you obey Me, I will....

show me in gen 15 and 17 where conditions were placed on the land being theirs.

The conditions only pertained to whether they lived in peace in their land or not.

Disobay, and you will be punished, Keep disobeying, and I will destroy and trample your land, and give it to your enemy

But even after this, repent, and I will give it back to you.

The heavenly promise and land promise were both given to Abraham, and niether had conditions placed on it.

17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” 3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: 4 “As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. 5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.

One promise to be fulfilled.

8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Another promise to be fulfilled.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, God is still saving people today...

What does this have to do with God giving a nation land forever. as a gift?

The land was a gift, Has God ever given you a gift (besides salvation) which you cheris because it was your loving father who gave it to you?

 

[Bookends]

lol.. Well I think I have more biblical proof.

Bit then again, that kind of argument will prove niether of us right,

Rev states the future beast will have control of every nation, tribe and language, I do not know how much more proof one needs to see this is the whole earth, not just one section of the earth.

Like eternal means eternal. Every must mean every.

The Roman empire did have control over all the known area, they had a mesh of all kinds of languages and tribes, nations, they conquer all of them (the world region that they knew). You want to interpret "oikoumenē" as something global, and I say it can also be the occupied areas of Rome. You also want to interpret "ge" as earth when it could also mean "land".

guess I'll have to find an example when forever doesn't mean forever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I said that? when?

your words:

Don't depend on what the prophets of old said, remember Paul says in Eph. their knowledge of the mystery was clouded, unclear.

responding to the point I said the prophets and people who first read the prophesies could not understand.

 

[Bookends]

What does this have to do with God giving a nation land forever. as a gift?

The land was a gift, Has God ever given you a gift (besides salvation) which you cheris because it was your loving father who gave it to you?

What God gives me is on loan, I'm just a steward of it. What I have God entrusted me with. I own nothing.

 

[Bookends]

your words:

Don't depend on what the prophets of old said, remember Paul says in Eph. their knowledge of the mystery was clouded, unclear.

responding to the point I said the prophets and people who first read the prophesies could not understand.

no Paul's words lol...Eph. 3 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:

 

[Bookends]

your words:

Don't depend on what the prophets of old said, remember Paul says in Eph. their knowledge of the mystery was clouded, unclear.

responding to the point I said the prophets and people who first read the prophesies could not understand.

Then we both agree?