Falling away?!?!

kennethcadwell · Nov 30, 2014

What is so hard to understand ?

We will be judged by our Lord by the works we did in life, and the way we walked in life will determine if we are given a reward or not. This only refers to those who make it in the first resurrection.

Those who claim to have faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior, but produce no good works or do only bad works do not have salvation. You have to be faithful, which includes obedience, to Him.

Lets look at Matthew 25:31-46, in both the groups mentioned you will see they both believe in Jesus as their Lord but the out come of the two groups is different. One gets eternal life, the other gets eternal punishment.

[h=1]Matthew 25:31-46[/h][h=3]The Sheep and the Goats[/h]31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Why did one group go to eternal punishment instead of eternal life, because they did not do good works of helping others in need. In denying others of help, Jesus says is the same as denying Him.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

Straightshot · Nov 30, 2014

"Wrong tree, but if you want to look at the big picture we can."

You missed the stop light .... and then just kept going

Your story is more a part of your own ideas rather than a pure rendering of the subject you are reporting

Let's get down to the nitty grity

Who is teaching you what to believe?

Are you affiliated with an organization which insists that you must work to obtain your salvation?

If you will tell me maybe I can dig through the cover so that you can see what has happened to you

Butch5 · Nov 30, 2014

Straightshot said:

They're not a completely different issue, that is one of the ploys used to further this doctrine, don't fall for it. If you do a computer search you'll find that regarding God the word is reward, not rewards. There is one reward and it is salvation.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Rev 22:12-15 KJV)

Here we see the reward gives right to the tree of life and the city. Those who don't get the reward are outside the city. This passage is quoted from Isaiah,

KJV Isaiah 62:11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. (Isa 62:11 KJV)

Straightshot · Nov 30, 2014

"Those who claim to have faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior, but produce no good works or do only bad works do not have salvation. You have to be faithful, which includes obedience, to Him."

A whole different matter Kenneth

You just described one that is not a Christian in the first place

A true believer walks a far different road .... all of these work to please the Lord .... not for their salvation

Butch5 · Nov 30, 2014

Straightshot said:

That's a logical fallacy, anyone I may be affiliated with has no bearing on the argument I make. I've present several problems the doctrine creates with Scripture, let's address them.

Butch5 · Nov 30, 2014

Straightshot said:

I put the above statement in red, can you tell me what the basis of this statement is?

kennethcadwell · Nov 30, 2014

Straightshot said:

It isn't a different issue, for to walk in love for the Lord which proves you are in a saved state means that you would obey and follow Him. Keeping and obeying His teaching.
Those who do not keep or obey His teaching are not His. One can not truly claim Jesus is their Lord if they do not do as He says.

Their is a difference in works of love, and works to earn. That is the confusion people have.

Even Jesus mentioned in the sower and the seed, a group who abides in Him for a while but do to a personal trial or tribulation fall away from Him and go back to their life of sin. No salvation because they did not continue in His goodness.

Then if you go back and look at Matthew 25 I gave you will see that both groups believe in the Lord, but only one does good deeds in helping others in need. The other gets cast away for not doing good deeds, because to the Lord denying others help is the same as denying Him.

Straightshot · Nov 30, 2014

I don't buy your interpretation

One truly saved by seeking and accepting the Lord's willingness and ability to save them without conditions will always do the walk after

The others are pretenders that have not done the seeking

This should not even be an issue to discuss

And the "falling way" is all about those who never seek, but ignore that which they know and should be

kennethcadwell · Nov 30, 2014

Straightshot said:

The thing is with this, is that there are conditions to salvation.
The first condition of course is to have faith in Him, no faith in Him no salvation.
The second condition would be repentance of sins, no repentance of sins no salvation.
The third condition would be to confess Him before others and not deny Him, if you deny Him in front of others you have no salvation.

Butch5 · Nov 30, 2014

Straightshot said:

Isn't this opinion? Where does Scripture say, "One truly saved by seeking and accepting the Lord's willingness and ability to save them without conditions"?

Question, if those who fall away were never saved, what did they fall away from, paganism?

Straightshot · Nov 30, 2014

"Isn't this opinion? Where does Scripture say, "One truly saved by seeking and accepting the Lord's willingness and ability to save them without conditions"?

Question, if those who fall away were never saved, what did they fall away from, paganism?"

Opinion?

Let me tell you that it is the very gospel of Jesus Christ that you call "opinion"

Human "falling away" is the behavior of the lost who refuse to believe the truth about the Lord Himself

This rebellion started long ago in a garden somewhere .... do you know?

And it still the popular thing to do .... and on going

There is a day coming when the Lord will tolerate no more .... and then He will respond with His fierce anger and related judgment upon the same .... the world is filled with this behavior today and ripe for His action

Can you get this?

Do you know about a flood that destroyed all humans for the same "falling away"

.... it is in your Bible ..... do you read?

Judgment is coming again [Matthew 24:36-39]

Butch5 · Nov 30, 2014

Straightshot said:

"Isn't this opinion? Where does Scripture say, "One truly saved by seeking and accepting the Lord's willingness and ability to save them without conditions"?

Question, if those who fall away were never saved, what did they fall away from, paganism?"

Opinion?

Let me tell you that it is the very gospel of Jesus Christ that you call "opinion"

Human "falling away" is the behavior of the lost who refuse to believe the truth about the Lord Himself

This rebellion started long ago in a garden somewhere .... do you know?

And it still the popular thing to do .... and on going

There is a day coming when the Lord will tolerate no more .... and then He will respond with His fierce anger and related judgment upon the same .... the world is filled with this behavior today and ripe for His action

Can you get this?

Do you know about a flood that destroyed all humans for the same "falling away"

.... it is in your Bible ..... do you read?

Judgment is coming again [Matthew 24:36-39]

Yes, opinion. You didn't answer my question, if they were never saved what did they fall away from? Lost people can't fall away from Christ, they were never His. Only a believer can fall away. One cannot fall from a building they were never on.

Straightshot · Nov 30, 2014

You know .... I have to say that you are playing some kind of a game .... a dangerous one

All have fallen short of His expectations ..... you have never read I suppose

All humans are on the building .... you included ..... from the get-go [Romans 1:18-22]

..... and all humans jump off

How close are you to the bottom?

Time is of the essence for you

Only the Lord can stop your falling

Butch5 · Nov 30, 2014

Straightshot said:

I'm not playing games. You keep giving me your opinion. I've presented some texts already that need to be addressed but you haven't done so. I'd be happy to discuss them.

You said all humans are on the building, are you suggesting that all humans are saved?

Straightshot · Dec 1, 2014

"You said all humans are on the building, are you suggesting that all humans are saved?"

All humans are sinners .... all jump off

There is only one way to stop the falling

To "fall away" is to sever a potential relationship with the Lord [Psalms]

.... this behavior is rampant today and growing

john832 · Dec 1, 2014

oldhermit said:

But when one speaks of "The Falling Away", he is speaking of II Ths 2:3...

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Straightshot · Dec 1, 2014

The falling away has reached mass proportion today .... even within professing Christianity

The day of the Lord must be very near

Butch5 · Dec 2, 2014

Straightshot said:

Again, one can't fall away from Christ if they were never His.

Straightshot · Dec 2, 2014

Well I have to tell you that the fall started long ago in a garden in the Middle East .... and began again after the flood

..... still on going today .... most of the 8 billion on the earth have fallen ..... those that have and do refuse to believe the truth about the Lord

The only recovery from this falling is by Jesus Christ along with a man's own repentance and the turning back

.... this is the gospel of Jesus Christ

All have "fallen" short of the mark and must willfully seek Him for their salvation .... read about this in your Bible

kennethcadwell · Dec 2, 2014

Hebrews 6:4-6

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Hebrews 3:12-14

Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Falling away?!?!

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