Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[seed_time_harvest]

Sorry, but this is not about sanctification and not salvation.
This has every bit to do with salvation. The foundation of our faith is our Lord, if you say He is your Lord then your faith will be built of this and you will hear and do His sayings. Those who partakers in Christ and the Holy Spirit can still fall from the faith. The scriptures say we are molded and worked to perfection.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.




Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

The bible says that we are made perfect in the spirit and if that is true and we know it is true, then what does John mean when he said we can't sin because we are born of GOD and what did Paul mean when he said renew your mind?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, but this is not about sanctification and not salvation.
This has every bit to do with salvation. The foundation of our faith is our Lord, if you say He is your Lord then your faith will be built of this and you will hear and do His sayings. Those who partakers in Christ and the Holy Spirit can still fall from the faith. The scriptures say we are molded and worked to perfection.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.




Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Your right, it is not about sanctification,

it is about making sure yuo are saved, and not proving yuo were never saved by going back to law. or religion, or whatever it is you came out of.

Hebrews says we have been perfected forever.. Why do you ignore what he said. Did he lie?

 

[dcontroversal]

Your right, it is not about sanctification,

it is about making sure yuo are saved, and not proving yuo were never saved by going back to law. or religion, or whatever it is you came out of.

Hebrews says we have been perfected forever.. Why do you ignore what he said. Did he lie?

No doubt...saved, justified, sanctified and perfected for ever in Christ Jesus.....justified by the perfect faith of Jesus as found in Galatians 2:16-21

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No doubt...saved, justified, sanctified and perfected for ever in Christ Jesus.....justified by the perfect faith of Jesus as found in Galatians 2:16-21

I don't get it, Why would someone who has been freed from law and all the perfection which has to come from it, and find the grace of God, EVER want to go back to that??

Unless it is what you truly trusted to begin with, because you never trusted grace.

Which is exactly what the author of hebrews is saying

 

[newbirth]

but faith only is dead....where does the scripture say....[/QUOTE]


IMO when James says that faith alone is dead He means that even though all it takes for salvation in GODs eyes is faith alone but a saving faith will produce good works outwardly from the change that took place in the spirit that men can see.

John 3:16
king james version(kjv)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

this is a joke .....

IMO when James says that faith alone is dead He means that even though all it takes for salvation in GODs eyes is faith alone but a saving faith will produce good works outwardly from the change that took place in the spirit that men can see.

when James says faith alone is dead he means faith alone is dead...where in his epistle does he mention saving faith??? or faith producing works??? you are saying something that is foreign to scripture...and saying that is what James means...that is a lie and I challenge you to prove it with scripture...

 

[kennethcadwell]

Your right, it is not about sanctification,

it is about making sure yuo are saved, and not proving yuo were never saved by going back to law. or religion, or whatever it is you came out of.

Hebrews says we have been perfected forever.. Why do you ignore what he said. Did he lie?

No doubt...saved, justified, sanctified and perfected for ever in Christ Jesus.....justified by the perfect faith of Jesus as found in Galatians 2:16-21

So are you two saying that a person who is a partaker in Christ and has the Holy Spirit is not saved ???

Because the writer of Hebrews in chapters 3 and 6 show that they do have the Holy Spirit and are partakers in Christ, but still turn away from God, and go back to living in sin. He also continues even into chapter 10 talking about how one walks in the faith is important, and if you deliberately/willfully sin after being a partaker then you have no salvation. Only a part in judgment, and the lake of fire.

 

[dcontroversal]

So are you two saying that a person who is a partaker in Christ and has the Holy Spirit is not saved ???

Because the writer of Hebrews in chapters 3 and 6 show that they do have the Holy Spirit and are partakers in Christ, but still turn away from God, and go back to living in sin. He also continues even into chapter 10 talking about how one walks in the faith is important, and if you deliberately/willfully sin after being a partaker then you have no salvation. Only a part in judgment, and the lake of fire.

I suggest context and are you a Jew that has left grace to go back under the law while forsaking the assembling of yourself together as the manner of some while counting the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing!

Wake up Kenneth and quit putting words out and assuming that we say anything like your question....it seems that people who cannot get over works like to accuse those who teach faith of things not said nor implied......!

 

[kennethcadwell]

I suggest context and are you a Jew that has left grace to go back under the law while forsaking the assembling of yourself together as the manner of some while counting the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing!

Wake up Kenneth and quit putting words out and assuming that we say anything like your question....it seems that people who cannot get over works like to accuse those who teach faith of things not said nor implied......!

I asked that question because you and E.G. have said that a person who is saved can not become unsaved, or fall away.

So I asked the question because to me if you are a partaker in Christ, and you have received the Holy Spirit then you are in a saved state. But the writer, rather it be Paul or one of his understudies, in Hebrews says that even though you have become a partaker in Christ and received the Holy Spirit you can still fall away.

So again the question would be;

Do you believe a person who has become a partaker in Christ, and received the Holy Spirit is saved ?

 

[dcontroversal]

I asked that question because you and E.G. have said that a person who is saved can not become unsaved, or fall away.

So I asked the question because to me if you are a partaker in Christ, and you have received the Holy Spirit then you are in a saved state. But the writer, rather it be Paul or one of his understudies, in Hebrews says that even though you have become a partaker in Christ and received the Holy Spirit you can still fall away.

So again the question would be;

Do you believe a person who has become a partaker in Christ, and received the Holy Spirit is saved ?

Yes I believe a person who has become a partaker in Christ and received the Holy Spirit is saved...eternally sealed and secure in Christ as it is the spirit that is born again, eternally secure in Christ, does not sin and cannot fall.....and for those who argue...it is BOUND IN A BODY of SIN that is not subject unto the law of God and neither can be. The SPIRIT is willing, but the flesh is weak....Sealed by the spirit, in the Father's hand and in the Son's hand and Ecclesiastes chapter 3 states clearly...

WHATSOEVER GOD does it is ETERNAL...nothing added, nothing taken away from it and GOD does it this so men will FEAR him!

Whatsoever=what ever it is that God does...including saving you!

You can backslide and forget you have been purged
You can be a vessel of dishonor with works of wood, hay and stubble
and yes, people who are saved sin occasionally...if we say that we have NO SIN (present tense) we are DECIEVED and the truth not in us.
WE are JUSTIFIED (rendered legally INNOCENT before God the Father) by the FAITH OF JESUS and that is why it cannot be lost as it is based upon the PERFECT FAITH and FAITHFULNESS OF JESUS<--Galatians 2:16-21

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes I believe a person who has become a partaker in Christ and received the Holy Spirit is saved...eternally sealed and secure in Christ as it is the spirit that is born again, eternally secure in Christ, does not sin and cannot fall.....and for those who aregue...it is BOUND IN A BODY of SIN that is not subject unto the law of God and neither can be. The SPIRIT is willing, but the flesh is weak....Sealed by the spirit, in the Father's hand and in the Son's hand and Ecclesiastes chapter 3 states clearly...

WHATSOEVER GOD does it is ETERNAL...nothing added, nothing taken away from it and GOD does it this so men will FEAR him!

Whatsoever=what ever it is that God does...including saving you!

You can backslide and forget you have been purged
You can be a vessel of dishonor with works of wood, hay and stubble
and yes, people who are saved sin occasionally...if we say that we have NO SIN (present tense) we are DECIEVED and the truth not in us.
WE are JUSTIFIED (rendered legally INNOCENT before God the Father) by the FAITH OF JESUS and that is why it cannot be lost as it is based upon the PERFECT FAITH and FAITHFULNESS OF JESUS<--Galatians 2:16-21

Then if you believe that one who is a partaker in Christ and has received the Holy Spirit is saved and can not fall away, then you go against the writer of Hebrews who says that they can.

That is why I asked this question because Paul or one who studied under him wrote Hebrews, and they say in chapter 3 and chapter 6 that they can fall away.

 

[dcontroversal]

Then if you believe that one who is a partaker in Christ and has received the Holy Spirit is saved and can not fall away, then you go against the writer of Hebrews who says that they can.

That is why I asked this question because Paul or one who studied under him wrote Hebrews, and they say in chapter 3 and chapter 6 that they can fall away.

Not going to argue...if you believe you can fall away and lose salvation how do you regain it? And if it is impossible to be renewed after one has lost salvation then everyone will cook as ALL ARE SINNING and continually falling short of the glory of God<---written in a present active indicative form of the verb....ALL ARE SINNING so you are left with a problem!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Not going to argue...if you believe you can fall away and lose salvation how do you regain it? And if it is impossible to be renewed after one has lost salvation then everyone will cook as ALL ARE SINNING and continually falling short of the glory of God<---written in a present active indicative form of the verb....ALL ARE SINNING so you are left with a problem!

Hebrews as well as other epistles, including the words from our Lord make that clear.
You have to come back to Him, by repenting of your sins. That was the context of the lost sheep parable, He had 100 sheep and one got lost because it went back to willful sins. The Lord went after that lost sheep to bring him back, but the sheep had to repent to be welcomed back.
The difference between one who slips up from time to time by sin, or one who falls away to sin is the fact of it being a willful sin that now controls you again. You serve it again, instead of serving the Lord.

One who slips up from time to time, say for instance tells a lie today for some reason can ask forgiveness of it. And the Lord being just will forgive them.
The one who falls away to willful sin, takes and lives in that sin on a every day basis obeying it in their lusts. They have become a servant of satan, instead of staying a servant of the Lord. The only way to come back from this is to repent of it, turning back to the Lord.
Some will not though because they either do not want to stop committing that sin, or are lead astray by false teaching that says it is acceptable to walk in willful sin and stay saved.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hebrews as well as other epistles, including the words from our Lord make that clear.
You have to come back to Him, by repenting of your sins. That was the context of the lost sheep parable, He had 100 sheep and one got lost because it went back to willful sins. The Lord went after that lost sheep to bring him back, but the sheep had to repent to be welcomed back.
The difference between one who slips up from time to time by sin, or one who falls away to sin is the fact of it being a willful sin that now controls you again. You serve it again, instead of serving the Lord.

One who slips up from time to time, say for instance tells a lie today for some reason can ask forgiveness of it. And the Lord being just will forgive them.
The one who falls away to willful sin, takes and lives in that sin on a every day basis obeying it in their lusts. They have become a servant of satan, instead of staying a servant of the Lord. The only way to come back from this is to repent of it, turning back to the Lord.
Some will not though because they either do not want to stop committing that sin, or are lead astray by false teaching that says it is acceptable to walk in willful sin and stay saved.

If you would just open your eyes to the absurdity of what you just stated ok let me get this straight...

saved--sin--lost--repent--saved--sinned--lost--repent--saved--sinned--lost--repent---saved--sinned--lost--repent
over and over and over and over and over.....yeah right.....NOT!

 

[p_rehbein]

If you would just open your eyes to the absurdity of what you just stated ok let me get this straight...

saved--sin--lost--repent--saved--sinned--lost--repent--saved--sinned--lost--repent---saved--sinned--lost--repent
over and over and over and over and over.....yeah right.....NOT!

(didn't read Kenneth's comment........just this one.......... )

ok, let me get this straight............saved................PARTY! DO WHATEVER THE HEDOUBLEL I WANT! PARTY! SIN, SIN, SIN, SIN, IT DON'T MATTER, 'CAUSE I WUZ SAVED!

that about right?

 

[dcontroversal]

(didn't read Kenneth's comment........just this one.......... )

ok, let me get this straight............saved................PARTY! DO WHATEVER THE HEDOUBLEL I WANT! PARTY! SIN, SIN, SIN, SIN, IT DON'T MATTER, 'CAUSE I WUZ SAVED!

that about right?

I guess that applies if someone is blind to the truth as no one I know who teaches eternal security believes that and or promotes that....so..your point is?

 

[dcontroversal]

Hebrews as well as other epistles, including the words from our Lord make that clear.
You have to come back to Him, by repenting of your sins. That was the context of the lost sheep parable, He had 100 sheep and one got lost because it went back to willful sins. The Lord went after that lost sheep to bring him back, but the sheep had to repent to be welcomed back.
The difference between one who slips up from time to time by sin, or one who falls away to sin is the fact of it being a willful sin that now controls you again. You serve it again, instead of serving the Lord.

One who slips up from time to time, say for instance tells a lie today for some reason can ask forgiveness of it. And the Lord being just will forgive them.
The one who falls away to willful sin, takes and lives in that sin on a every day basis obeying it in their lusts. They have become a servant of satan, instead of staying a servant of the Lord. The only way to come back from this is to repent of it, turning back to the Lord.
Some will not though because they either do not want to stop committing that sin, or are lead astray by false teaching that says it is acceptable to walk in willful sin and stay saved.

More absurdity as one knows they are lying when they lie.....most sin is willful and your view sets forth a double standard.....the bible also teaches that one who lives a continual lifestyle of sin was not saved in the first place......!

 

[p_rehbein]

I guess that applies if someone is blind to the truth as no one I know who teaches eternal security believes that and or promotes that....so..your point is?

Point is.............Free Will..........and a person's ability to turn their backs on Christ..........it happens........OSAS is one theological ideology that I will never accept..........sorry

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Point is.............Free Will..........and a person's ability to turn their backs on Christ..........it happens........OSAS is one theological ideology that I will never accept..........sorry

Thats to bad.

Your right free will. No one who have received the gift of God after coming out of whatever religion or darkness they were in, would ever willingly go back. You will never convince me of such.

Not to mention, if eternal security is not true, salvation is on us, and Not Go. That is something I can never accept.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So are you two saying that a person who is a partaker in Christ and has the Holy Spirit is not saved ???

I am saying that it is different to actually have the holy spirit, then partake in his goodness by being around his people. And different to partake in Christ and the blessings which come from being around the body, then actually having Christ.

Because the writer of Hebrews in chapters 3 and 6 show that they do have the Holy Spirit and are partakers in Christ, but still turn away from God, and go back to living in sin. He also continues even into chapter 10 talking about how one walks in the faith is important, and if you deliberately/willfully sin after being a partaker then you have no salvation. Only a part in judgment, and the lake of fire.

The writer of hebrews 4 says God has perfected FOREVER those who are being sanctified.

So either god has perfected forever those who are saved, or he is a liar.

 

[p_rehbein]

F.Y.I..............believe it or not...............but I agree with this article.........y'all are free to believe as you wish.......

(excerpt from Article)

"If any man sin..." Notice first of all that this verse says "IF". If a Christian sins then he needs to confess the sin and repent of it. Christians who sin must acknowledge their guilt and seek the mercy that comes from God through Jesus Christ. If the Christian refuses to admit the sin and instead chooses to call it a "mistake" and does not seek the forgiveness of God then he or she is in danger of falling under the wrath of God (Heb. 10:26-31). As James 5:19-20 says, if a Christian wanders from the truth and commits sin, he needs to be restored in order to be saved from death.

(found here

[h=3]What happens if a Christian sins? Is there hope?[/h]