Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[kennethcadwell]

lol. So, DO you think a person who has true faith in Christ, and has found the knowledge that their sin has caused their spiritual death, would LOVE PAST SINS?

come on dude, get real..

If you do not abhore what it is that killed you in the first place. You have not trusted God, in all that he says. thus you have never had faith.

Which is exactly what leads us back to what I said before, that is in the scriptures.
Some will listen to the word, but not actually hear it, and then if they do hear it then they need to be a doer of it.

Jesus says you must be a hearer and a doer of the word, and not just a hearer.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Yes I read the post, but once again the emphasis was on obedience coming after one is saved.

That can not be true, because repentance of sins comes before one is saved. And no it is not just a change in mind from unbelief to belief. Repentance also means you have to turn and stop walking in those sins. Only after following that command to repent are you in a saved state, so obedience comes before you are saved.

My point was that if obedience doesn't come first, then one is saved before they repent of their sins. Which that would mean that OSAS is a lie, because one can still perish from unrepented sins. Meaning you can still perish, even after being saved.

So it is either obedience first before saved, or saved then obedience and OSAS is a lie.....

How can an unbeliever obey God?

You cannot have obedience until you are filled with the holy Spirit - The holy Spirit does not dwell in you until you have turned from an unbeliever to a believer which is repentance. Turning from an unbeliever to a believer is repentance - a change of mind. . . So at the time you are born again, believed on Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you have repented of your past. Then you begin a "walk" of obedience. No one will perish after being saved - one who believes on the only begotten Son has everlasting life. It is a promise. . . . .

 

[newbirth]

The bold text seems to be the point of disagreement. I could not obey or follow God until I was saved.
After I believed, the obedience followed. I obeyed because I believed, it just came naturally that I couldnt continue living like there is no God when I know by my faith He is real and normally that makes Him top priority in my life, plus He saved me, I love Him because He first loved me...

That anyone could obey God before being saved/believing, I have (honestly) never heard such a testimony...

faith comes by hearing.....are you saying these guys were saved before they obeyed??? or when they obeyed???
Acts 2:38King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[kennethcadwell]

How can an unbeliever obey God?

You cannot have obedience until you are filled with the holy Spirit - The holy Spirit does not dwell in you until you have turned from an unbeliever to a believer which is repentance. Turning from an unbeliever to a believer is repentance - a change of mind. . . So at the time you are born again, believed on Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you have repented of your past. Then you begin a "walk" of obedience. No one will perish after being saved - one who believes on the only begotten Son has everlasting life. It is a promise. . . . .

After hearing the word they chose to obey it, or not.
If they chose to obey then they are no longer and unbeliever. They have faith in what the Lord said, and through that faith they repent of their sins, turning from them and dedicating themselves fully into His hands. Then you become saved.

People want saved and faith to happen at the same time, they don't..........Faith leads to salvation, through obedience.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, it is all of repentance it is what the word means, stop trying to make a religious term from an ever day used word (in the time of Christ) we do not use religion to interpret words, we interpret it how a person who it was written to would have interpreted it.

The catholic church changed the meaning, and you fell for it hook line and sinker



Yes



I can not do this until I am born of God first. if I could be saved by turning from my sin, and actually do it. then Christ died in vein, he did not have to do, I could save myself.



your misguided. I can not say I have FAITH in God, and continue to walk in sin, for I am a liar and have no faith at all. I have not repented, because I did not admit my sin was evil, and it is what separated me from God, I still believe as I have always believed, no faith. no salvation.


Lord jesus make Ken understand he CANT TURN from sin until he is BORN OF YOUR SPIRIT, Then help him understand no matter how good he thinks he is, no matter how many commands he obeys, He is still a sinner in your eyes, because he has not 24/7 375 days a year always had the love of you or others. that every time, for any reason, he does anything which is self motivated 9which we all do) it is sin, and according to the law. without your blood will condemn him to an eternity apart from you. [/QUOTE


Read post 443 I gave the definition for repentance, and yes it is how the bible uses the word.
I will give you part of it;

1
: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life

Thats your interpretation. not the meaning of the word.

So when God said he repented of making man, God turned from his sin? Are you serious? God sinned so he had to repent? is that so??

I am trying to be patient here, But I am telling you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faith comes by hearing the word, and through hearing the word your faith and trust in what was said by Lord leads you to repent of your sins, then your life is given over and dedicated to the Lord and you are in a saved state.

saved state?

so how can I be saved if I may spend eternity in hell? That is not saved, that is psuedo saved, that is someone giving me a gift, telling me it is one thing, when it is something else.

If you do not agree with the word. YOU DO NOT HAVE FAITH.

It is plain and simple. what are you not seeing?

 

[newbirth]

How can an unbeliever obey God?

You cannot have obedience until you are filled with the holy Spirit - The holy Spirit does not dwell in you until you have turned from an unbeliever to a believer which is repentance. Turning from an unbeliever to a believer is repentance - a change of mind. . . So at the time you are born again, believed on Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you have repented of your past. Then you begin a "walk" of obedience. No one will perish after being saved - one who believes on the only begotten Son has everlasting life. It is a promise. . . . .

faith comes by hearing ...if one believes what he hears what stops him from obeying...repenting is obeying ....and it is done before one is saved.....

Acts 2:38King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


one is born again of water and of the spirit....to enter into the kingdom...
no one will perish if they continue in Christ.....
2 Timothy 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which is exactly what leads us back to what I said before, that is in the scriptures.
Some will listen to the word, but not actually hear it, and then if they do hear it then they need to be a doer of it.

Jesus says you must be a hearer and a doer of the word, and not just a hearer.

No Scripture says be doers, not just hearers only, you added the word "have to".

Lets get serious ken, are you going to tell me that a person who does not agree with everything God said about sin has faith in God?

Think about what your saying.

Yeah, I have faith in God, but I reject what God says about sin..

That is what your claiming a person can do.. Since when?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

faith comes by hearing ...if one believes what he hears what stops him from obeying...repenting is obeying ....and it is done before one is saved.....

Acts 2:38King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

one is born again of water and of the spirit....to enter into the kingdom...
no one will perish if they continue in Christ.....
2 Timothy 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

We are born - we have a sinful nature - we are unbelievers.

Faith comes by hearing - we are saved by grace through faith - we believe [faith] what we hear which leads to godly sorrow, which leads to repentance - at that moment we are born of the Spirit - that is the process.

I won't go into John 3 because it's useless . . . .

 

[penknight]

What you fail to understand Sea Perch is that James does not say that the works SAVED HIM, but rather that the works are evidence of SALVATION which he already HAS...The problem is that your Campbellism wont allow you to see the truth....makes me think of this verse as well...The devil hath blinded the minds of them that BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF CHRIST should shine unto them......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe......

Your gospel---> It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that WORK, GET WET and TRUST into their own meritorious abilities to help Jesus save themselves.....

Right! I don't understand why that is so difficult for some people to grasp.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No Scripture says be doers, not just hearers only, you added the word "have to".

Lets get serious ken, are you going to tell me that a person who does not agree with everything God said about sin has faith in God?

Think about what your saying.

Yeah, I have faith in God, but I reject what God says about sin..

That is what your claiming a person can do.. Since when?

Here you have the Lord saying those who believe in Him are not just hears, but doers of the word as well.
Those who are not doers have no foundation in their faith.


Luke 6:46-49


And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.


James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here you have the Lord saying those who believe in Him are not just hears, but doers of the word as well.
Those who are not doers have no foundation in their faith.


Luke 6:46-49


And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.


James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Those who do not have faith will never be doers. How can they be a doer when they do not trust what God says?

So whats your point? How can a person be saved, if they do not have faith.

try thinking for just a minute your getting close.

 

[kennethcadwell]

saved state?

so how can I be saved if I may spend eternity in hell? That is not saved, that is psuedo saved, that is someone giving me a gift, telling me it is one thing, when it is something else.

If you do not agree with the word. YOU DO NOT HAVE FAITH.

It is plain and simple. what are you not seeing?

Yes it is plain and simple, which is why I find it so strange that people can not get the concept that one is not saved initially. There are steps one has to do before being saved.

I will mention this scripture again, but I know you will deny it again. But it has to do with when Jesus sent the Apostles out to preach the word to the rest of the Jews. This is not the tribulation period.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.



Let's see if the Apostles agreed with this;

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.




2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.




1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Those who do not have faith will never be doers. How can they be a doer when they do not trust what God says?

So whats your point? How can a person be saved, if they do not have faith.

try thinking for just a minute your getting close.

Exactly, so without faith they can not do the command to repent of their sins.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly, so without faith they can not do the command to repent of their sins.

wrong

Without repentance, they will never have faith in God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes it is plain and simple, which is why I find it so strange that people can not get the concept that one is not saved initially. There are steps one has to do before being saved.

I will mention this scripture again, but I know you will deny it again. But it has to do with when Jesus sent the Apostles out to preach the word to the rest of the Jews. This is not the tribulation period.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.



Let's see if the Apostles agreed with this;

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.




2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.




1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

lol. what steps?

tell me my friend, what sin did Christ not die for. I would realy like to know so I do not commit that sin, and cause myself to be lost forever.

And finally, again tell me, How can one have faith in God if they reject what God says about sin?

 

[kennethcadwell]

wrong

Without repentance, they will never have faith in God.

Without faith in the Lord's word, they would not believe they have to repent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here you have the Lord saying those who believe in Him are not just hears, but doers of the word as well.
Those who are not doers have no foundation in their faith.


Luke 6:46-49


And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.


James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

You did not answer my question.

Can a person say thy have faith in God, yet reject what God says about sin?

 

[Jackson123]

After hearing the word they chose to obey it, or not.
If they chose to obey then they are no longer and unbeliever. They have faith in what the Lord said, and through that faith they repent of their sins, turning from them and dedicating themselves fully into His hands. Then you become saved.

People want saved and faith to happen at the same time, they don't..........Faith leads to salvation, through obedience.

Look like the verse said Faith come from hearing, it doesn't said obedience come from hearing.


Romans 10:17King James Version (KJV)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

King James Version (KJV)

I believe obedience is a fruit after the branch abide.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Without faith in the Lord's word, they would not believe they have to repent.

without repenting, They could never have faith.

Repenting is not a work, it is a state of mind.

How can I repent, when I do not agree with God, and how can I have faith, if I reject what God says.

think for a minute, just think, it is not that hard to fathom.