Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[kennethcadwell]

lol. what steps?

tell me my friend, what sin did Christ not die for. I would realy like to know so I do not commit that sin, and cause myself to be lost forever.

And finally, again tell me, How can one have faith in God if they reject what God says about sin?

He died for all our sins, but you don't get that forgiveness if you don't repent from your sins, don't forgive others of theirs, do not confess Him before others, be baptized, and walk in the light as He is light. If you walk in sin, you walk in darkness still.
He commanded all of these things, and said if you love Him you will keep these commandments. Those who don't keep these commandments do not love Him for the truth is not in them.

 

[Jackson123]

He died for all our sins, but you don't get that forgiveness if you don't repent from your sins, don't forgive others of theirs, do not confess Him before others, be baptized, and walk in the light as He is light. If you walk in sin, you walk in darkness still.
He commanded all of these things, and said if you love Him you will keep these commandments. Those who don't keep these commandments do not love Him for the truth is not in them.

In other word, you have to have faith in Him.

Jesus said In matt 7

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, norcan a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

If a man said have a faith in Jesus but not produce good fruits, he is a liar.

Faith in Jesus save us and obedience is only a evident of our faith.

 

[kennethcadwell]

without repenting, They could never have faith.

Repenting is not a work, it is a state of mind.

How can I repent, when I do not agree with God, and how can I have faith, if I reject what God says.

think for a minute, just think, it is not that hard to fathom.

Wrong, repentance is considered a spiritual work because it requires one to turn from their sins and dedicate the rest of their life to God.

[h=1]Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.[/h]Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.


You hear the word of our Lord, and with your heart you believe/faith and are justified. Then through repentance of sin, which requires you to confess/acknowledge them and turn from them, do you become saved.

 

[kennethcadwell]

In other word, you have to have faith in Him.

Jesus said In matt 7

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, norcan a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

If a man said have a faith in Jesus but not produce good fruits, he is a liar.

Faith in Jesus save us and obedience is only a evident of our faith.

Yes obedience is evident of our faith, but it does come before one is saved. One can not be saved before they have obedience. You have to obey the command to repent of sins before you are saved.

People want to make repentance just a change of mind from unbelief to belief, but that is not what it really says.
Here is the Greek Lexicon definition of repent, and nowhere does it say from unbelief to belief.

Like I said it is talking about changing ones mind about sin, and how one needs to turn from walking in them.
Repentance is about turning from sin, and dedicating your life to God.

1. 
   [*=left]to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
   
   [*=left]to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

 

[newbirth]

no one here said anyone was saved before.

REPENTANCE comes BEFORE FAITH, It is what BRINGS US TO FAITH.

God has to convict and bring us to a knowledge of him, if we have faith in this (his word) then we are saved, because we repented.

If we reject this word (continue to trust what we always have, which is self) then we are not saved, because we have not yet repented.

faith comes by hearing .......how does one repent before they hear the word???...where does the scripture say repentance brings faith...prove that with scripture or retract that statement...

 

[kennethcadwell]

faith comes by hearing .......how does one repent before they hear the word???...where does the scripture say repentance brings faith...prove that with scripture or retract that statement...

I would like to know that to, how does one repent of sins before they even hear the word.
They can't, and even when they do hear the word does not mean they will follow and do what it says. Only faith in the Word will lead them to obey what it says.

 

[newbirth]

without repenting, They could never have faith.

Faith comes by hearing...and hearing the word of God...
Romans 10:16-18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Repenting is not a work, it is a state of mind.

Repentance is a command from Christ......

Matthew 4:14-17King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

How can I repent, when I do not agree with God, and how can I have faith, if I reject what God says.

simple when you hear the word....faith comes... agree with the word and change your mind to believe the word....

Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

think for a minute, just think, it is not that hard to fathom.

back your opinions with scripture....

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Yes obedience is evident of our faith, but it does come before one is saved. One can not be saved before they have obedience. You have to obey the command to repent of sins before you are saved.

People want to make repentance just a change of mind from unbelief to belief, but that is not what it really says.
Here is the Greek Lexicon definition of repent, and nowhere does it say from unbelief to belief.

Like I said it is talking about changing ones mind about sin, and how one needs to turn from walking in them.
Repentance is about turning from sin, and dedicating your life to God.

1. 
   [*=left]to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
   [*=left]to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

repent - to change one's mind I was an unbeliever, dead in sins. I heard the word of God and believed what I heard. That in turn lead me to godly sorrow [over my past sins] which lead to my repentance. This "change of mind" lead to "abhorrence of my past sins" into faith of my Lord Jesus Christ. All happened in one moment of time.

It is turning from an unbeliever into a believer - my mind changed and it changed for the better - isn't that what you have for the definition of repent?

2 Corinthians 7:10,11 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He died for all our sins, but you don't get that forgiveness if you don't repent from your sins, don't forgive others of theirs, do not confess Him before others, be baptized, and walk in the light as He is light. If you walk in sin, you walk in darkness still.
He commanded all of these things, and said if you love Him you will keep these commandments. Those who don't keep these commandments do not love Him for the truth is not in them.

then he did not die for all sins.

He did not die for you being a self centered bigot and not forgiving others, which i guess I did when I was a non believer, so I have no hope

He did not die to forgive me for not being immersed in water by some man.


so there are two sins.

As for the others..

No one who has faith in God would deny him, I can not believe you would think such a thing.

As for walking in sin, John said a child born of God can not do that. So not sure what your arguing, not to mention. again, If someone rejects what God said about sin, How can they have faith to be saved?

Those who love him have been born of him, and will keep his commandments. Those not born of him, can not love him, and will never keep his commands (in a spiritual sense, they can act like they keep his commands, but their inside is full of sin, even the reasoning is sinful)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wrong, repentance is considered a spiritual work because it requires one to turn from their sins and dedicate the rest of their life to God.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.


You hear the word of our Lord, and with your heart you believe/faith and are justified. Then through repentance of sin, which requires you to confess/acknowledge them and turn from them, do you become saved.

here we go in circles again.

why are you refusing to answer? are you afraid or something? You keep saying the same ole stuff but never answer the question.

How can one who REJECTS what God says about sin have any faith in him?

It seems you think they can, so tell me, how can they?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would like to know that to, how does one repent of sins before they even hear the word.

ever read romans 1?

and even when they do hear the word does not mean they will follow and do what it says. Only faith in the Word will lead them to obey what it says.

Yet if one does not repent, they reject what God says in his word. thus they would never have faith in what God says.

 

[newbirth]

In other word, you have to have faith in Him.

Jesus said In matt 7

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, norcan a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

If a man said have a faith in Jesus but not produce good fruits, he is a liar.

Faith in Jesus save us and obedience is only a evident of our faith.

and faith comes by hearing.......when you heard the word and faith came....did you obey the word you heard? or were you magically saved when you heard the word....as some claim....when they heard the word they were pricked in their hearts...were you pricked in your heart...and they asked ...what shall we do???

Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Wrong, repentance is considered a spiritual work because it requires one to turn from their sins and dedicate the rest of their life to God.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.


You hear the word of our Lord, and with your heart you believe/faith and are justified. Then through repentance of sin, which requires you to confess/acknowledge them and turn from them, do you become saved.

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Being justified FREELY by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare at this time his righteousness: that he might be just and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:23-26

Now when I believe the above - I am justified freely by grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus through faith in his blood to DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS - [notice - NOT MY RIGHTEOUSNESS by things I HAVE DONE but by HIS righteousness] for the remission of sins that are past . . . . I see nothing in there about anything I HAVE TO DO but have FAITH.

I have to believe that Christ died for our sins, he was buried and that he rose again on the third day - at that point I have repented, I am born again of the Spirit and I am made righteous by HIS righteousness not by my own . . . .

 

[kennethcadwell]

repent - to change one's mind I was an unbeliever, dead in sins. I heard the word of God and believed what I heard. That in turn lead me to godly sorrow [over my past sins] which lead to my repentance. This "change of mind" lead to "abhorrence of my past sins" into faith of my Lord Jesus Christ. All happened in one moment of time.

It is turning from an unbeliever into a believer - my mind changed and it changed for the better - isn't that what you have for the definition of repent?

2 Corinthians 7:10,11 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

I see what you are saying about how it all comes in one motion, but as you even pointed out in what you said in that motion belief/faith came before repentance. You believed what you heard, and that lead you to godly sorrow and then repentance. So belief/faith still came first, then through godly sorrow obedience to obey the command to repent.

And yes change for the better is part of the definition to, but one can not change for the better if they still live in their sins. They still will be living contrary to God, if they are still in their sins.

 

[kennethcadwell]

ever read romans 1?



Yet if one does not repent, they reject what God says in his word. thus they would never have faith in what God says.

Yes I have, and lets look at Romans 1:5 where it says by our obedience to the faith we receive grace and apostleship;

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 1 says nothing about one repenting before they have faith, or hear the word.

 

[kennethcadwell]

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Being justified FREELY by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare at this time his righteousness: that he might be just and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:23-26

Now when I believe the above - I am justified freely by grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus through faith in his blood to DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS - [notice - NOT MY RIGHTEOUSNESS by things I HAVE DONE but by HIS righteousness] for the remission of sins that are past . . . . I see nothing in there about anything I HAVE TO DO but have FAITH.

I have to believe that Christ died for our sins, he was buried and that he rose again on the third day - at that point I have repented, I am born again of the Spirit and I am made righteous by HIS righteousness not by my own . . . .

Yes you do, but that belief comes through faith after hearing the word.
None of us would disagree that you have to believe that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose on the third day.
That is part of your belief in Him. Now if you believe this, and you dedicate your life and full trust in Him then you will obey all His commands that He gave.

Faith, love, obedience, and trust all work together.

If you don't trust the Lord, do you really have faith in Him ? NO
If you don't obey the Lord, do you really have faith in Him ? NO
If you don't love the Lord, do you really have faith in Him ? NO

 

[newbirth]

repent - to change one's mind I was an unbeliever, dead in sins. I heard the word of God and believed what I heard. That in turn lead me to godly sorrow [over my past sins] which lead to my repentance. This "change of mind" lead to "abhorrence of my past sins" into faith of my Lord Jesus Christ. All happened in one moment of time.

It is turning from an unbeliever into a believer - my mind changed and it changed for the better - isn't that what you have for the definition of repent?

2 Corinthians 7:10,11 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

well a change of mind would result in a change of actions else your mind is not changed...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes I have, and lets look at Romans 1:5 where it says by our obedience to the faith we receive grace and apostleship;

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 1 says nothing about one repenting before they have faith, or hear the word.

It is the work of God, we have faith in the one he said. These are jesus words not mine, your argument is with him

Romans 1 says man has no excuse, they know who god is, What God is, and the penalty of sin.

Typical that you would reject half of what the passage says, and go back to something which does not support your theory.

So when are you going to answer. How can someone have faith in God when they reject what he says about sin.

Why are you ignoring this??

 

[newbirth]

here we go in circles again.

why are you refusing to answer? are you afraid or something? You keep saying the same ole stuff but never answer the question.

How can one who REJECTS what God says about sin have any faith in him?

It seems you think they can, so tell me, how can they?

you reject God's word and say you have faith in him....

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

no one here said anyone was saved before.

REPENTANCE comes BEFORE FAITH, It is what BRINGS US TO FAITH.

God has to convict and bring us to a knowledge of him, if we have faith in this (his word) then we are saved, because we repented.

If we reject this word (continue to trust what we always have, which is self) then we are not saved, because we have not yet repented.

this is God's word which you reject and preach your own word....
Romans 10:16-18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.


your gospel...

REPENTANCE comes BEFORE FAITH, It is what BRINGS US TO FAITH.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It is the work of God, we have faith in the one he said. These are jesus words not mine, your argument is with him

Romans 1 says man has no excuse, they know who god is, What God is, and the penalty of sin.

Typical that you would reject half of what the passage says, and go back to something which does not support your theory.

So when are you going to answer. How can someone have faith in God when they reject what he says about sin.

Why are you ignoring this??

Romans 1 talks about how we are to establish ourselves in the faith, and it starts of with saying in verse 5 that obedience in the faith do we receive grace and apostleship. Then it goes on to talk about how He gave up some to their vial passions because they did not want to turn from their sins. Then it leaves off with all the ways that if you walk in them you will not receive salvation.

I already answered you, but like always you skip over parts of what people say and then make assumptions and say we said something we didn't. But I will answer it for you again as I and Newbirth have already answered it before.

We are all against God in our sins, when we hear the word of God in our hearts we feel the godly sorrow because we believe what it says and through that faith we repent of our sins, turning our lives around and dedicated ourselves to the Lord.

What I have posted does support what I have been saying, you are the one who have yet to prove and show one scripture that shows repentance comes before faith. Romans 1 does not do that, sorry.