Paul And James in Total, Complete Agreement On Works
- Thread starter SeaBass
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
Yet when we do works of the law in faith, they are obedient works. so nice try, but utter fail.
all faith is obedient faith, if it is not obedient, it is not faith,
if you deny and reject what God says about sin and obedience, you do not have faiht in God period. that is what James said.
thanks, you just proved my point.
I received grace FOR OBEDIENT FAITH.
thus when I honor my parents in faith, it glorifies God, when I do not steel, I glorify God.
so when are you going to try to do works of faith, and not works of self promotion (to get saved)?
yep. a faith with zero zip nada works is dead. You can SAY YOU HAVE FAITH ON GOF a million times, but if you reject what God says about obedience and sin, it is no faith at all. your still dead in your sin. because your faith is dead.
No they are not. because their is no such thing as faith alone.
a dead faith is no faith at all.
again, a person who rejects what God says about sin and obedience DOES NOT HAVE FAITH IN GOD. PERIOD
THEY DO NO WORK NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE FAITH, BUT BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE FAITH. IT IS DEAD!.
all faith is obedient faith, if it is not obedient, it is not faith,
if you deny and reject what God says about sin and obedience, you do not have faiht in God period. that is what James said.
thanks, you just proved my point.
I received grace FOR OBEDIENT FAITH.
thus when I honor my parents in faith, it glorifies God, when I do not steel, I glorify God.
so when are you going to try to do works of faith, and not works of self promotion (to get saved)?
yep. a faith with zero zip nada works is dead. You can SAY YOU HAVE FAITH ON GOF a million times, but if you reject what God says about obedience and sin, it is no faith at all. your still dead in your sin. because your faith is dead.
No they are not. because their is no such thing as faith alone.
a dead faith is no faith at all.
again, a person who rejects what God says about sin and obedience DOES NOT HAVE FAITH IN GOD. PERIOD
THEY DO NO WORK NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE FAITH, BUT BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE FAITH. IT IS DEAD!.
C
Calvin followed a lot of Augustine that wrote in the 400's B.C. and Augustine was one of the later 'church fathers' that also helped to birth the RCC ....... so instead of accusing us of siding with Catholics in some "works salvation" -- it would be better to read CHURCH HISTORY and see what and who came from who and Where!!
Ignorance of Church History is hurting us as well - as neither the First Church nor the Early Church believed in "faith alone" but stood by Biblical - New Testament Obedience unto salvation in the End. They stood by "even the devil "believes" and trembles" ... but being 'faithful unto death' through obedience to His Every Word, by faith in Him and His Word and our willingness to obey the will of the Father - we are not alone in our CHOICE to obey -- but have then the full assistance of His Holy Spirit once our will aligns with His ... as He has not created autonotoms but those that would love Him of their own choosing and co-operate with His Will and make it ours as well.
John 7:16,17 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
2Tim 4:3-5 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Ignorance of Church History is hurting us as well - as neither the First Church nor the Early Church believed in "faith alone" but stood by Biblical - New Testament Obedience unto salvation in the End. They stood by "even the devil "believes" and trembles" ... but being 'faithful unto death' through obedience to His Every Word, by faith in Him and His Word and our willingness to obey the will of the Father - we are not alone in our CHOICE to obey -- but have then the full assistance of His Holy Spirit once our will aligns with His ... as He has not created autonotoms but those that would love Him of their own choosing and co-operate with His Will and make it ours as well.
John 7:16,17 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
2Tim 4:3-5 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Last edited:
What I agree is if one remain/abide in him than he will bear the fruit/good work not all the way around.
I don't believe real faith not bear the good fruit.
So there isn't such thing where Faith not bear the fruit. Only if a man have a faith and die in ten second, they don't have time to bear the fruit.
1) you are trying to change the definitions of words to escape the force of those words.
2) you are trying to rewrite James 2:24 to read one is justified for some unknown reason then does works and Rom 6;17,18 to read they were freed from sin for some unknown reason then obeyed from the heart.
3) you accuse James of being incorrect when James speaks of Abraham's work in offering Isaac, James 2:23, then shows Abraham was justified by that work in offering Isaac (verse 24), and not by faith only. James made the works the MEANS of justification and not just the evidence of it.
E
hmm..
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Romans 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Romans 5:1
[ Faith Triumphs in Trouble ] Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, (so much for the fear you were teaching awhile ago)
Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
james was not talking about being justified at all. the context is CAN ONE WHO claims to have faith yet has no works be saved.
the context was is the faith real or dead. not who was justified.
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Romans 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Romans 5:1
[ Faith Triumphs in Trouble ] Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, (so much for the fear you were teaching awhile ago)
Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
james was not talking about being justified at all. the context is CAN ONE WHO claims to have faith yet has no works be saved.
the context was is the faith real or dead. not who was justified.
James said a man is NOT justified by faith only, the exact opposite of what you stated above.
Both James and Paul put obedient works BEFORE salvation. So far as I read through this thread, as I expected, there would be posts rewriting what both James and Paul said by trying to put justification BEFORE works.
If works was not the means by which Abraham was justified, then for what reason was Abraham justified?
I try to be like the unprofitable servant - only doing what is my duty to do.
Lk 17:10 "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."
Are you derelict in doing what is your duty to do?
Lk 17:10 "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."
Are you derelict in doing what is your duty to do?
Not one of these verses you posted above contradicts James and Paul who put works BEFORE justification.
Rom 3:24 redemption is IN CHRIST and obedience is required to be in Christ, Gal 3:27.
Rom 4:2 Paul was talking about works of merit and not obedient works. Paul did not contradict himself (or James) going from Rom 4:2 to Rom 6:16,17.
Rom 5:1 justified by faith NOT faith only for faith only cannot justify James 2:24.
Rom 5:9 you did not explain WHO is justified by the blood of Christ and WHY are they justified by the blood of Christ.
The 'who" and 'why' are those that OBEY by submitting to water baptism where there the blood of Christ remits sins.
1 Cor 6:11 plainly says the Corinthians were "washed", a clear reference to them submitting themselves to baptism, cf 1 Cor 1:14,16.
James plainly said by works a man is justified.
If works was not the means by which Abraham was justified, then for what reason was Abraham justified?