Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[peacefulbeliever]

I see where you keep going with this, and has for the raising us up. If you take other scriptures it says that happens on the last day. We are not raised up yet, so we are not brought into salvation yet.

God uses figures of speech when he wants to put emphasis on something said - This - things stated in the past tense as already happened - emphasizes when something is absolutely going to occur in the future. It is an idiom called "prophetic perfect" used in both the Hebrew and Greek texts.

Then you bring in a couple of scriptures that speak again about believing in Him. I already addressed this by showing you scriptural passage from our Lord where He says what it means to believe in Him. He says one who believes in Him is one who hears and does His sayings, not just hears.

Oh man . . . . SALVATION . . . . is . . . . by . . . faith . . . . in . . . . Jesus Christ. The . . . WALK . . . . comes . . . AFTER . . . . salvation.

Then you ask how can you know with confidence that you have eternal life. That is easily answered, by standing firm, enduring trials in your life, and keep obedient to the Lord and you would know you have it by your willingness to not waver.

Scripture . . . says . . . that . . . I . . . know. . . I . . . have . . . eternal . . . life . . . because. . . I . . . believe . . . on . . the. . . name. . . of . . the . . .Son . . of . . God.

The problem is with this is even though you, me, E.G, Dconn, and some others know we have that salvation by the Lord our God. The scriptures make it clear that those who are still weak in the faith, can be wavered, fooled, deceived, and fall away do this and trials in their life. Which is why we are called to minister to them, so that we can help them through the Holy Spirit's guidance make them stronger.

The scriptures make it clear that we are each measured out a different measure of faith, those who are weak still have faith but need to be guided still so that they do not fall away.

Because I share that God's promises are true and that salvation comes from confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead - I am hurting those weak in the faith? That's the truth - SALVATION . . . COMES . . . FIRST.
THEN . . . THEY . . . LEARN . . . OBEDIENCE. WE . . . DON'T . . . COME . . . RIGHT . . . OUT . . . OF . . .THE . . . GATE . . RUNNING!

I was speaking slowly LOL - just picking as we say here in Louisiana! BTW, teaching them that they are born again of "incorruptible seed" but that "seed" can be lost . . . . hmmmmm

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What does Jesus say ?

More blessed are those who have not seen, yet believed.
These people during the millennial reign of Christ had to see before they believed.

Um, Jesus was speaking of us, who did not see Christ, not people who would live then. They do not have to see to believe, they will just get the opportunity we do not have, and see the living messiah in the flesh.

Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection, for the second resurrection has no power over them.
This does not say all who take part in the second resurrection will be cast to the lake of fire, it is saying that depending on what they did after the first resurrection will determine if they are cast there.

No. the gospel is the same for them as it is us.

Think about what your saying, Your saying the great white throne is not for us, who have taken the first. but only for them. then how can you use it to prove YOU will be judged for your works, and possibly get sent to hell?

If they come to Christ during the millennium and are not deceived by satan when he is released, then they will be the ones that is mentioned in first part of chapter 20 the small and great standing before God, that the Book of Life is opened for and then they are judged by their works. Then the sea, death, and Hades give up their dead and they are judged and cast into the lake of fire.

Those who have faith in Christ will never get decieved to turn against Christ, this is just foolish thought, the people who are decieved by him are people that never believed in him to begin with.

Notice the first group it does not say were cast into the lake of fire, it does not say that tell death and Hades gave up their dead and they were all cast into the lake of fire, then if anybody else from the first group or the group from the sea if their names were not written in the Book then they were cast into the lake. This shows not all from the first group in chapter 20 get cast to the lake of fire.

The only people ressurected in the first are the children of God. God never promised to ressurect a non believer, He promised ONLY that they would be delivered to him for judgment.

the second ressurection will be those saved during tribulation, they will get their bema seat judgment the dead to Christ from ALL TIME will be delivered to Christ for the great white judgment.

No believer will be there.

 

[elf3]

By faith we are justified, and by obedience we are saved.

Now before anybody goes into a rampage about me saying this, let me explain why I said that by first showing what Paul said.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Notice he says by believing ( faith ) one is justified, and with confession one is saved. This is because he is making a point that ones obedience plays a role in being saved.
Confession was a command by our Lord, as well as repentance, baptism, forgiveness, and doing good deeds for others.
By stating it this way Paul is showing that obeying the Lords commands are needed for salvation.

Can you be saved if you don't obey this command ?

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


If you say no, then this would apply to the rest of His commands because He said this;


John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments"

Ok let me rephrase this because you answered in a circle answer that did not answer the question.

When we stand before God on our last day what does God see? What does God see that justifies us before Him?

 

[elf3]

By faith we are justified, and by obedience we are saved.

Now before anybody goes into a rampage about me saying this, let me explain why I said that by first showing what Paul said.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Notice he says by believing ( faith ) one is justified, and with confession one is saved. This is because he is making a point that ones obedience plays a role in being saved.
Confession was a command by our Lord, as well as repentance, baptism, forgiveness, and doing good deeds for others.
By stating it this way Paul is showing that obeying the Lords commands are needed for salvation.

Can you be saved if you don't obey this command ?

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


If you say no, then this would apply to the rest of His commands because He said this;


John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments"

I only asked a simple question. You answered my question by adding a stipulation to it. You basically said "justified by faith but...". There is no "but" to that question. I only asked about justified nothing else. By adding an answer to a question not asked you are trying to justify your thinking.

Kind of like asking a kid "hey did you break that on purpose?" And they answer "yes but...". Trying to justify a wrong.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Um, Jesus was speaking of us, who did not see Christ, not people who would live then. They do not have to see to believe, they will just get the opportunity we do not have, and see the living messiah in the flesh.


No. the gospel is the same for them as it is us.

Think about what your saying, Your saying the great white throne is not for us, who have taken the first. but only for them. then how can you use it to prove YOU will be judged for your works, and possibly get sent to hell?


Those who have faith in Christ will never get decieved to turn against Christ, this is just foolish thought, the people who are decieved by him are people that never believed in him to begin with.


The only people ressurected in the first are the children of God. God never promised to ressurect a non believer, He promised ONLY that they would be delivered to him for judgment.

the second ressurection will be those saved during tribulation, they will get their bema seat judgment the dead to Christ from ALL TIME will be delivered to Christ for the great white judgment.

No believer will be there.

Actually the gospel is for us before the millennium.
To show this all you have to do is go and check on the prophecies of what will be going on during the millennium. The prophecies show that the temple will be here, and priesthood, and sacrifices will be done during this time. This is because the Lord will have come back, and will set a new set of standards during this time. If He does not then there would be no need to have temple priest again and sacrifices, but prophecies show there will be.

Jesus even said some will be deceived and fall away, that is an issue you have with Him if you don't believe what He said.

Matthew 24:10-13


And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


You can not fall away or be lead away from something you were never a part of to begin with. You have to be a believer before you can fall or lead away from being a believer.


Uhmmm........You have two resurrections, not one......

The first resurrection is for us who have not seen, yet still believe before He comes back..

The second resurrection is for all of those who come after His return....

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ok let me rephrase this because you answered in a circle answer that did not answer the question.

When we stand before God on our last day what does God see? What does God see that justifies us before Him?

I only asked a simple question. You answered my question by adding a stipulation to it. You basically said "justified by faith but...". There is no "but" to that question. I only asked about justified nothing else. By adding an answer to a question not asked you are trying to justify your thinking.

Kind of like asking a kid "hey did you break that on purpose?" And they answer "yes but...". Trying to justify a wrong.

First, we that have believed in Him, yet have not seen him stand before Christ at the bema seat after the first resurrection.

He will judge us by our works, and our works will be tested by fire and burned up and if any remain we will receive rewards for our obedience.

1 Corinthians 3:11–15
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


Then to answer the other part on the question about justification, I did answer that.
The reason I did not just leave it at the answer for justification is because that is not the only part for salvation.
Just because one has been justified, does not mean they are saved. Paul makes that clear.

 

[kennethcadwell]

God uses figures of speech when he wants to put emphasis on something said - This - things stated in the past tense as already happened - emphasizes when something is absolutely going to occur in the future. It is an idiom called "prophetic perfect" used in both the Hebrew and Greek texts.

Oh man . . . . SALVATION . . . . is . . . . by . . . faith . . . . in . . . . Jesus Christ. The . . . WALK . . . . comes . . . AFTER . . . . salvation.

Scripture . . . says . . . that . . . I . . . know. . . I . . . have . . . eternal . . . life . . . because. . . I . . . believe . . . on . . the. . . name. . . of . . the . . .Son . . of . . God.

Because I share that God's promises are true and that salvation comes from confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead - I am hurting those weak in the faith? That's the truth - SALVATION . . . COMES . . . FIRST.
THEN . . . THEY . . . LEARN . . . OBEDIENCE. WE . . . DON'T . . . COME . . . RIGHT . . . OUT . . . OF . . .THE . . . GATE . . RUNNING!

I was speaking slowly LOL - just picking as we say here in Louisiana! BTW, teaching them that they are born again of "incorruptible seed" but that "seed" can be lost . . . . hmmmmm

Wrong, salvation does not come first it can't.

Hearing the word comes first,

Then through hearing the word, faith and love comes,

Through faith and love, obedience comes,

Through obedience, you obey the command to repent of your sins,

Then through repented sins, and obey the rest of the Lords commands comes your saved state.....


If salvation comes first before all else in a person's life, then the Lord would not have said you have to endure to the end to be saved....

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


He says here he who endures to the end will be saved, not you are saved and then you endure.
And before any want to debate this, this is not a tribulation passage. This was given to the Apostles when He sent them out two by two to preach the good news to the rest of the Jews. Matthew 24 where He said this was a tribulation passage.
So the question is why would the same requirement for the original Apostles, and the requirement for believers in the tribulation to endure to the end to be saved be any different for us in the middle ? It wouldn't !!!

 

[elf3]

First, we that have believed in Him, yet have not seen him stand before Christ at the bema seat after the first resurrection.

He will judge us by our works, and our works will be tested by fire and burned up and if any remain we will receive rewards for our obedience.

1 Corinthians 3:11–15
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


Then to answer the other part on the question about justification, I did answer that.
The reason I did not just leave it at the answer for justification is because that is not the only part for salvation.
Just because one has been justified, does not mean they are saved. Paul makes that clear.

It's the blood of Christ that God sees covering us. Which would be faith in Christ by which we are justified.

By what you say those "last minute" believers can never be saved because they never had a chance to do good works.

That isn't what Jesus teaches in the parable of the vineyard workers. (Matthew 20:1-16)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually the gospel is for us before the millennium.
To show this all you have to do is go and check on the prophecies of what will be going on during the millennium. The prophecies show that the temple will be here, and priesthood, and sacrifices will be done during this time. This is because the Lord will have come back, and will set a new set of standards during this time. If He does not then there would be no need to have temple priest again and sacrifices, but prophecies show there will be.

Jesus even said some will be deceived and fall away, that is an issue you have with Him if you don't believe what He said.

Matthew 24:10-13


And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


You can not fall away or be lead away from something you were never a part of to begin with. You have to be a believer before you can fall or lead away from being a believer.


Uhmmm........You have two resurrections, not one......

The first resurrection is for us who have not seen, yet still believe before He comes back..

The second resurrection is for all of those who come after His return....

Um. do you read scripture?

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; [SUP]8 [/SUP]the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. [SUP]9 [/SUP]It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience

10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

The law never saved anyone. Not one person who ever walked the earth was saved by the temple sacrifices. Not one.

No one will EVER be saved by temple sacrifices, because as paul CORRECTLY said, no sacrifice can make on perfect (remove sin)

so forgive me if I do not believe the millenial people will be saved by offerinng sacrifice and burnt offering.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It's the blood of Christ that God sees covering us. Which would be faith in Christ by which we are justified.

By what you say those "last minute" believers can never be saved because they never had a chance to do good works.

That isn't what Jesus teaches in the parable of the vineyard workers. (Matthew 20:1-16)

I never said that at all. I don't know where you get that from.
You have to hear the word before you can even believe. Once you believe what you heard, you are already doing spiritual work and that is trusting in the word of God. Then you do the next spiritual work of repenting of you sins. If one dies before being able to do anything else they will be saved, because they were already heading down that road and the Lord will know their heart belongs to Him.

This however does not excuse those who have the chance to follow the rest of the commands to not do them.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Wrong, salvation does not come first it can't.

Hearing the word comes first,

Then through hearing the word, faith and love comes,

Through faith and love, obedience comes,

Through obedience, you obey the command to repent of your sins,

Then through repented sins, and obey the rest of the Lords commands comes your saved state.....

You really don't see how everything works together and at one time, do you?
repent - to change one's mind I was an unbeliever, dead in sins. I heard the word of God and believed what I heard. That in turn lead me to godly sorrow [over my past sins] which lead to my repentance. This "change of mind" lead to "abhorrence of my past sins" into faith of my Lord Jesus Christ. All happened in one moment of time.

It is turning from an unbeliever into a believer - my mind changed and it changed for the better - isn't that what you have for the definition of repent?

If salvation comes first before all else in a person's life, then the Lord would not have said you have to endure to the end to be saved....

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

He says here he who endures to the end will be saved, not you are saved and then you endure.

And before any want to debate this, this is not a tribulation passage. This was given to the Apostles when He sent them out two by two to preach the good news to the rest of the Jews. Matthew 24 where He said this was a tribulation passage.

So the question is why would the same requirement for the original Apostles, and the requirement for believers in the tribulation to endure to the end to be saved be any different for us in the middle ? It wouldn't !!!

But Romans 10:9 says That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED - I am able to confess and believe this because I have heard the word and believed what I heard. - Again, basically all in one step . . . .
In Matthew 10 and Matthew 24:

1) Who is his audience?
2) Is his audience born again of the Spirit?

Why any different to us - as in the church? We are born again of the Spirit - we have the indwelling presence of the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us through the gift of holy Spirit, i.e. born again.

For we have been born again, not of corruptible [perishable] seed but of incorruptible [imperishable] seed through the living and enduring word of God. 1 Peter 1:23 [Hey the same way we received faith - from hearing the word of God] You want to tell me that that "seed" is corruptible [perishable] - does that line up with what the word of God says?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Um. do you read scripture?

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; [SUP]8 [/SUP]the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. [SUP]9 [/SUP]It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience

10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

The law never saved anyone. Not one person who ever walked the earth was saved by the temple sacrifices. Not one.

No one will EVER be saved by temple sacrifices, because as paul CORRECTLY said, no sacrifice can make on perfect (remove sin)

so forgive me if I do not believe the millenial people will be saved by offerinng sacrifice and burnt offering.

I never said the law saved, or animal sacrifices saved.
This once again is you saying I said something I never did. You only a few post back said for me or others to stop saying that you have said something when you haven't. I would appreciate the same consideration from you.

Now what I said is that prophecy scriptures from the OT it shows during the millennial reign there will be a priest line again, and there will be sacrifices again. I never said that the sacrifices or law saved or will save.
The other part of this was the misunderstanding on when I said that Jews during the OT were still saved before the NT was ushered in. They did not have to wait tell Jesus came and died on the cross for this.

1 Corinthians 10:1-2
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

 

[newbirth]

yes there are.

Adam died spiritually the moment he sinned, and from that time all men are born dead. (thus I am dead and need born again because I am dead)

Then their is physical death which followed after.

In fact their are three, Those who die spiritually dead, will suffer the second death, called the eternal fire.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[elf3]

I never said that at all. I don't know where you get that from.
You have to hear the word before you can even believe. Once you believe what you heard, you are already doing spiritual work and that is trusting in the word of God. Then you do the next spiritual work of repenting of you sins. If one dies before being able to do anything else they will be saved, because they were already heading down that road and the Lord will know their heart belongs to Him.

This however does not excuse those who have the chance to follow the rest of the commands to not do them.

You just kind of "double talked" yourself. You have justified some by faith alone and others by faith and works.

 

[dcontroversal]

You really don't see how everything works together and at one time, do you?
repent - to change one's mind I was an unbeliever, dead in sins. I heard the word of God and believed what I heard. That in turn lead me to godly sorrow [over my past sins] which lead to my repentance. This "change of mind" lead to "abhorrence of my past sins" into faith of my Lord Jesus Christ. All happened in one moment of time.

It is turning from an unbeliever into a believer - my mind changed and it changed for the better - isn't that what you have for the definition of repent?

But Romans 10:9 says That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED - I am able to confess and believe this because I have heard the word and believed what I heard. - Again, basically all in one step . . . .
In Matthew 10 and Matthew 24:

1) Who is his audience?
2) Is his audience born again of the Spirit?

Why any different to us - as in the church? We are born again of the Spirit - we have the indwelling presence of the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us through the gift of holy Spirit, i.e. born again.

For we have been born again, not of corruptible [perishable] seed but of incorruptible [imperishable] seed through the living and enduring word of God. 1 Peter 1:23 [Hey the same way we received faith - from hearing the word of God] You want to tell me that that "seed" is corruptible [perishable] - does that line up with what the word of God says?

Well you know that John 3:16 teaches the following..For God so loved the (cosmos) that he gave his only begotten son that WHOSEVER BELIEVETH in him while doing many wonderful works, speaks in tongues, is immersed, is a member of hickory stick church, slain in the spirit, completes the 7 sacraments, back flips down the isle, prays to Mary and attends 57 potlucks while taking the Lord's supper 97 times shall not perish, but is having everlasting life.

NOT!

 

[kennethcadwell]

You really don't see how everything works together and at one time, do you?
repent - to change one's mind I was an unbeliever, dead in sins. I heard the word of God and believed what I heard. That in turn lead me to godly sorrow [over my past sins] which lead to my repentance. This "change of mind" lead to "abhorrence of my past sins" into faith of my Lord Jesus Christ. All happened in one moment of time.

It is turning from an unbeliever into a believer - my mind changed and it changed for the better - isn't that what you have for the definition of repent?

But Romans 10:9 says That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED - I am able to confess and believe this because I have heard the word and believed what I heard. - Again, basically all in one step . . . .
In Matthew 10 and Matthew 24:

1) Who is his audience?
2) Is his audience born again of the Spirit?

Why any different to us - as in the church? We are born again of the Spirit - we have the indwelling presence of the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us through the gift of holy Spirit, i.e. born again.

For we have been born again, not of corruptible [perishable] seed but of incorruptible [imperishable] seed through the living and enduring word of God. 1 Peter 1:23 [Hey the same way we received faith - from hearing the word of God] You want to tell me that that "seed" is corruptible [perishable] - does that line up with what the word of God says?

Yes I do see how it all works in one motion, but just like motion when it comes to faith it is the action of moving forward.
You can not however repent of sins before you hear, and you can not repent tell you understand by the word the enmity your sins has caused.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Who are the ones who confess Him to be their Lord, and believe in their heart that he was raised from the dead. Those are exactly who Jesus said they are;

Luke 6:47
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them,....

His audience in Matthew 10 and Matthew 24 is His Apostles, and what He tells them there and all the rest He told them in the gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John was for all of us to keep and obey.


Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[dcontroversal]

You just kind of "double talked" yourself. You have justified some by faith alone and others by faith and works.

They do that a lot and everyone of them who teach that you can lose your salvation or that salvation is kept by works will deny that they have ever lost their salvation...and then if they say that they have lost it will deny that Hebrews teaches that you cannot gain it back...unless they are applying Hebrews to the ones who believe saved by faith void of works....double talk, vacillating dogma and a continual rejection of the truth is all that spews forth from their mouths!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I never said the law saved, or animal sacrifices saved.
This once again is you saying I said something I never did. You only a few post back said for me or others to stop saying that you have said something when you haven't. I would appreciate the same consideration from you.

Now what I said is that prophecy scriptures from the OT it shows during the millennial reign there will be a priest line again, and there will be sacrifices again. I never said that the sacrifices or law saved or will save.
The other part of this was the misunderstanding on when I said that Jews during the OT were still saved before the NT was ushered in. They did not have to wait tell Jesus came and died on the cross for this.

1 Corinthians 10:1-2
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

you will have to forgive me, But to say in the millinium their is a priest line, and sacrifice again, And saying they are saved different than we are. How else would I take it? What need is their of sacrifice and burnt offering, if the one they lead to (CHRIST) has already come and gone, and FULFILLED THE LAW? And what does that have to do with them being saved by faith> Just like we are.

If you want people to understand you, say what it is your tryint to say. You said that in reply to people are held to a different standard in that day than we are. So ANYONE would ASSUME you meant they are saved by those things.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You just kind of "double talked" yourself. You have justified some by faith alone and others by faith and works.

Wrong again, and it is your misunderstanding of what I said.

What I said and I will bold this and enlarge it to make it clear.......

If you have faith in the Lord, and repent of your sins then spiritual working is already at hand in your life !!!


Just because their life was cut short for some reason before they had a chance to be baptized, help others, or produce fruit does not mean the spiritual working has not already taken effect in their life. Once again, once you have heard the word and trusted what you heard, then through faith and love brought on by the godly sorrow you feel will lead you into spiritual works. That first spiritual work is repenting of your sins.

For we walk in the spirit, and not of the flesh.
The works of the spirit, is faith, love, repentance, confession, baptism, and forgiveness. If you are walking down this road the Lord will know your heart, so if your life gets taken before you can do all the previously named. The Lord knowing your heart will have mercy on you and you will be saved.

Now if you do the works of flesh this is evident to;

[h=1]Galatians 5:19-21[/h]19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Well you know that John 3:16 teaches the following..For God so loved the (cosmos) that he gave his only begotten son that WHOSEVER BELIEVETH in him while doing many wonderful works, speaks in tongues, is immersed, is a member of hickory stick church, slain in the spirit, completes the 7 sacraments, back flips down the isle, prays to Mary and attends 57 potlucks while taking the Lord's supper 97 times shall not perish, but is having everlasting life.

NOT!

I didn't say all those things and this is what was meant - one must be born again as in - whosoever believeth in him receives the new birth - the new birth involves being born again of the Spirit - being born again of the Spirit involves being baptized in holy Spirit - He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

I think I read it wrong - it wasn't directed to me was it! LOL . . .