Why do Atheists Bother?

[AgeofKnowledge]

*sniffs the wind*

 

[kennethcadwell]

The conversation evolved......

Ssshhhhh, be quiet they may think they are convincing you a little....

 

[Leannaix]

Indeed I wonder sometimes why atheists bother. Even after attempting to correct the misunderstanding about what evolution is, I still see someone asking for someone to show a horse magically turning into another modern species of a different family. Why would you continue to insist that this is what evolution teaches when such a thing is so opposite of evolution that it would totally derail the theory. This is just continual demonstration of a complete lack of information and understanding about evolution.

 

[Cycel]

So, you would also agree then that if Christianity fails to convince atheists it must be because the religion is faulty? Do you see where your argument fails?

I would have to add this tidbit if I could. It was never a Christian's job to convince. That is the work of the Holy Spirit... and His alone. All we're tasked with doing is simply presenting the gospel and what Jesus has done in our own lives. Only God can change a heart.

Hmm? So those people who converted to the Mormon faith and to the Jehovah's Witnesses within my family were all converted by the Holy Spirit? No? The Holy Spirit only converts people to true Christianity?

Sorry, but from the atheist stand point there is no Holy Spirit. What I see is people being converted by charismatic purveyors of a new religious message -- new, at least, to those who are converted.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Hmm? So those people who converted to the Mormon faith and to the Jehovah's Witnesses within my family were all converted by the Holy Spirit? No? The Holy Spirit only converts people to true Christianity?

Sorry, but from the atheist stand point there is no Holy Spirit. What I see is people being converted by charismatic purveyors of a new religious message -- new, at least, to those who are converted.

True Christianity, is the living word of God... Anything else is something that's been substituted.. A copy.. What the devil does best is try to mirror something good, because it can never be real good. If people in your family have been converted by other people and not The Word of God, they've been led astray, but everyday they have breathe there's always hope they will listen and take heed to Gods Word and nothing else.

 

[Cycel]

To say that beneficial mutations are "nothing but adaptations or speciations" is completely arbitrary.

Just more opinion.I'll leave it at that.

No, don't leave it. She is right.

Do you imagine that evolutionists claim new species are created in one fell swoop? Think about it. We are asserting that new species are created by small steps. That means each new adaptation is a small step in creating a new species.

Anti-evolutionists make a distinction between micro and macro evolution. All macro evolution is, is a long series of micro changes over time.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Cycel, Romans 14 explains your objection about conversion.
While certain convictions are universal, as dont steal or dont kill or dont fornicate, every person has different levels of faith which brings somewhat different convictions on matters like observance of days, respect to certain judaic traditions, and so on.
Jesus trumps it all and people are saved if they really follow Him, regardless of the church they belong.

 

[Cycel]

True Christianity, is the living word of God... Anything else is something that's been substituted.. A copy.. What the devil does best is try to mirror something good, because it can never be real good. If people in your family have been converted by other people and not The Word of God, they've been led astray, but everyday they have breathe there's always hope they will listen and take heed to Gods Word and nothing else.

Brainfreeze, that is what they are saying about you. They think you have been led astray.

Do you know what is really taking place here? It is the evolution of religious belief itself. Christian belief is fracturing into numerous spin-off subspecies. Some of them over time, perhaps the Mormons, will totally divest themselves of the Christian name itself, just as the Christians once rid themselves of the Jewish label and created a wholly new religion.

 

[Brainfreeze]

True Christianity, is the living word of God... Anything else is something that's been substituted.. A copy.. What the devil does best is try to mirror something good, because it can never be real good. If people in your family have been converted by other people and not The Word of God, they've been led astray, but everyday they have breathe there's always hope they will listen and take heed to Gods Word and nothing else.

Correction breath not breathe, also
Gods word speaks for Himself.. As for testimony it's God that gives you the understanding and discernment if someone's telling us a true testimony, it's a testimony of Him not us, we will know it when we hear it. God does live in a lot of denominations but as for adding to His word with say " the Book of Mormon " is not of God.. There's nothing to add to or take away from, it's all there or twisting verses to make complications and denominations is not of God. This doesn't stop the fact that if we truly seek Him, we will find Him, no matter where.. He lives with us, not in a particular building or denomination, their all right in the basic since of Jesus saves..

 

[Hizikyah]

Brainfreeze, that is what they are saying about you. They think you have been led astray.

Do you know what is really taking place here? It is the evolution of religious belief itself. Christian belief is fracturing into numerous spin-off subspecies. Some of them over time, perhaps the Mormons, will totally divest themselves of the Christian name itself, just as the Christians once rid themselves of the Jewish label and created a wholly new religion.

"created a wholly new religion" done and done.

"Minæans" apparently Latinized from Hebrew MINIM (singular is MIN) a word which in modern Hebrew means "apostates" but was originally an acronym for a Hebrew phrase meaning "Believers in Yeshua the Nazarene."

Jerome responds saying of the Nazarenes "though believing in Christ, [they] were anathematized by the [church] fathers for this one error, that they mixed up the ceremonies of the law with the gospel of Christ, and professed their faith in that which was new, without letting go what was old."

"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews' Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." "Sunday a Sabbath." John Ley, p.163.

"Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church." -- Ancient Christianity Exemplified, Lyman Coleman, ch. 26, sec. 2, p. 527.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Brainfreeze, that is what they are saying about you. They think you have been led astray.

Do you know what is really taking place here? It is the evolution of religious belief itself. Christian belief is fracturing into numerous spin-off subspecies. Some of them over time, perhaps the Mormons, will totally divest themselves of the Christian name itself, just as the Christians once rid themselves of the Jewish label and created a wholly new religion.

That's fine Cycel, " they " can say or do anything they please, this changes nothing.. Some will bicker about what's not important ( how, when, and why's) , you are what's important, the unsaved, the ones who don't believe that Jesus came, died, and was resurrected, just for little, feeble minded, us. I challenge you to just believe what's in Gods word, the love, peace, and righteousness of God. Put your education to the side for a minute, I know a lot of folks just can't do this, to much time and effort has been donated to their cause, but when one is able to drop everything and follow Jesus, the things, the things, the things, that will be opened up to you, past anything I have words for.. Just believe what your reading, pray to God, ask Him to make you unbiased and clear minded, and start your walk... The results will be more shocking then anything out of science or science fiction.. We're talking about GOD here...

 

[Hizikyah]

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

 

[Cycel]

... every person has different levels of faith which brings somewhat different convictions...

Agreed. Richard Dawkins talked about this in his book, The God Delusion.

“Let us, then, take the idea of a spectrum of probabilities seriously, and place human judgements about the existence of God along it, between two extremes of opposite certainty. The spectrum is continuous, but it can be represented by the following seven milestones along the way.

1. Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, ‘I do not believe, I know.’

2. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. ‘I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there.’

3. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. ‘I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.’

4. Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. ‘God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.’

5. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. ‘I don’t know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be sceptical.’

6. Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. ‘I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.’

7. Strong atheist. ‘I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung “knows” there is one.’

Further on Dawkins writes, “I count myself in category 6, but leaning towards 7....” (The God Delusion, p. 50-51)

Regarding his category 7 Dawkins further says, “I’d be surprised to meet many people in category 7, but I include it for symmetry with category 1, which is well populated.... Atheists do not have faith; and reason alone could not propel one to total conviction that anything definitely does not exist.” (The God Delusion, p. 50-51)

I imagine you are a 'one' on the Dawkns scale.

Jesus trumps it all and people are saved if they really follow Him, regardless of the church they belong.

Oh? Mormons as well? You sound quite liberal.

 

[4enlightment]

I would have to add this tidbit if I could. It was never a Christian's job to convince. That is the work of the Holy Spirit... and His alone. All we're tasked with doing is simply presenting the gospel and what Jesus has done in our own lives. Only God can change a heart.

The power is in the tongue and which it can change our heart. Neil deGrasse Tyson has spoken very good about God in the physical nature, but God is a spirit. What Tyson had spoken about the Cosmos was a deceitful tactic to lure people from being connected to the spiritual nature. Tyson was able to fool many except the Elects, because they stayed connected. Tyson spoken about genetic modified foods are the same as cross-breeding, but one is done naturally and the other is done unnatural, and which that has gotten me thinking that this man doesn't know what he is talking about at all. Even Dr.Oz knows the difference and the environmental effects that it can cause from these modifications because he has a sincere heart, and which Tyson is deceitful, he's just looking for another pay check so that he can sit on his fat bottom and stuff his face with the fats of the land. Scientist has created (GMO) plants that suppose to withstand powerful chemicals, but the weeds that these chemicals (Agent Orange) suppose to destroy, are now adapting and become even more powerful weeds and now the farmers are going to have to increase the amount of chemicals that will kill these super weeds, but it also can kill or deform everything that lives nearby. And what they are doing, there wouldn't be anything safe to eat or drink. All the disciples of science are smooth talkers that know how to speak Pig Latin that doesn't care about life.

[h=1]Chemical warfare: the horrific birth defects linked to tomato pesticides[/h]

Chemical warfare: horrific birth defects linked to tomato pesticides - News - The Ecologist

To take action:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...sistant-genetically-engineered-crops/sy38Vm0s


New GMO Pesticide - New GMO Pesticide Doctors Are Warning Against | The Dr. Oz Show

 

[Human]

The power is in the tongue and which it can change our heart. Neil deGrasse Tyson has spoken very good about God in the physical nature, but God is a spirit. What Tyson had spoken about the Cosmos was a deceitful tactic to lure people from being connected to the spiritual nature. Tyson was able to fool many except the Elects, because they stayed connected. Tyson spoken about genetic modified foods are the same as cross-breeding, but one is done naturally and the other is done unnatural, and which that has gotten me thinking that this man doesn't know what he is talking about at all. Even Dr.Oz knows the difference and the environmental effects that it can cause from these modifications because he has a sincere heart, and which Tyson is deceitful, he's just looking for another pay check so that he can sit on his fat bottom and stuff his face with the fats of the land. Scientist has created (GMO) plants that suppose to withstand powerful chemicals, but the weeds that these chemicals (Agent Orange) suppose to destroy, are now adapting and become even more powerful weeds and now the farmers are going to have to increase the amount of chemicals that will kill these super weeds, but it also can kill or deform everything that lives nearby. And what they are doing, there wouldn't be anything safe to eat or drink. All the disciples of science are smooth talkers that know how to speak Pig Latin that doesn't care about life.

Chemical warfare: the horrific birth defects linked to tomato pesticides

Chemical warfare: horrific birth defects linked to tomato pesticides - News - The Ecologist

To take action:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...sistant-genetically-engineered-crops/sy38Vm0s


New GMO Pesticide - New GMO Pesticide Doctors Are Warning Against | The Dr. Oz Show

Contrary to your generalizing assumption, I actually care deeply about humanitarian causes, including; the ridding of dangerous chemicals from agriculture; the abolishment of fossil fuel usage; an extreme switch toward renewable energies; the reclassification of food from utility to human right; the reclassification of shelter from commodity to human right; the redistribution of wealth if not the deconstruction of the fiat model entirely; prohibition of crude oil and its derivatives as energy sources; a reduction in globalization and an increase in sustainable local farming; a switch to complete non-lethal weaponization; a concerted effort to promote vegetarianism thus lower the vast costs of rearing large numbers of livestock and its associated costs and environmental and health impacts; a push for better animal welfare and humane treatment of animals across the globe; the recompensation of all those affected by toxic chemicals in warfare, in work, in agriculture and in water; the peace process in the middle East and African nations; the institution of educational systems not purposed to further the indoctrination of children into mindsets where monetary status is equatable to human worth; the widespread equality of gender, race and sexual orientation; the restructuring of social normalities from objectifying standards to intrinsic positive attributions such as compassion and understanding; universal access to state-provided healthcare; and a reengineering of legal standards set in motion by questioning the fundamental ethical basis for judiciary practices, among a plethora of other ideals that would ultimately reduce the burden on humanity as a whole.

Please don't make generalized assumptions about a person's moral endgame just because they happen to be scientifically aware.

 

[Brainfreeze]

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

There's always exceptions Hizikyah, my father goes to a catholic church, " he " says it's easier for him to talk to God in there and so fourth, he knows a lot of what they do and say is wrong, he believes the " Peter, you are my rock " deal, but that just so happens to be where he goes to listen to a priest for hopefully a " God given message " sometimes he will tell me about the sermon preached and ask my thoughts, I put him on the right track, he believes Gods word, he is a God fearing man, he is sorry for his sinful life of gambling addiction and thru the power of God is changing, we can go to any church and not be saved, it's on the individual to truly seek God and only then will the miracles happen, we have to sincerely seek Him, if you want to do this with the Pentecostals, baptist, catholics, prison, whatever, this seeking out can start wherever it just can't end with " this is my church " God has to be someone we are taking out of that church and searching it on our own ( meetings, centers, libraries, home Bible studies, etc.)then we will know the truth your speaking of here.. But we have to start some where, and not just to say " I go to church " .. But to live with Gods Word.

 

[4enlightment]

Contrary to your generalizing assumption, I actually care deeply about humanitarian causes, including; the ridding of dangerous chemicals from agriculture; the abolishment of fossil fuel usage; an extreme switch toward renewable energies; the reclassification of food from utility to human right; the reclassification of shelter from commodity to human right; the redistribution of wealth if not the deconstruction of the fiat model entirely; prohibition of crude oil and its derivatives as energy sources; a reduction in globalization and an increase in sustainable local farming; a switch to complete non-lethal weaponization; a concerted effort to promote vegetarianism thus lower the vast costs of rearing large numbers of livestock and its associated costs and environmental and health impacts; a push for better animal welfare and humane treatment of animals across the globe; the recompensation of all those affected by toxic chemicals in warfare, in work, in agriculture and in water; the peace process in the middle East and African nations; the institution of educational systems not purposed to further the indoctrination of children into mindsets where monetary status is equatable to human worth; the widespread equality of gender, race and sexual orientation; the restructuring of social normalities from objectifying standards to intrinsic positive attributions such as compassion and understanding; universal access to state-provided healthcare; and a reengineering of legal standards set in motion by questioning the fundamental ethical basis for judiciary practices, among a plethora of other ideals that would ultimately reduce the burden on humanity as a whole.

Please don't make generalized assumptions about a person's moral endgame just because they happen to be scientifically aware.

Wow! How do you manage to do all of that and find time to study, especially being at the age of 24? Like I say, Smooth talkers that knows how to speak Pig Latin.

 

[kaylagrl]

It's interesting, but Christians seem to disagree with one another a whole lot more than atheists disagree with other atheists. For conservative Christians that means you've got a great deal to chat about. We atheists, on the other hand, when on sites dedicated to atheists, sometimes find the sailing a bit too smooth. So, we come to Christian forums to spice up our lives. At least that is one of the reasons I am here. The other thing is that Christians, conservative ones especially, are notorious for their misunderstanding of evolution (it's because this group seems to rely almost exclusively on anti-evolution sites for their understanding of evolution and these sites are notorious for misrepresenting the facts about evolution). It means we have a lot of re-education that needs doing. Of course, that in itself is a problem because -- I think -- anti-evolutionists on the whole don't want to understand evolution better, they simply want their anti-evolution position reinforced.



Just about everything. Anytime I hear statements about evolution from anti-evolutionists it is typically misconstrued.

So nuts and bolts so we all know....thanks

 

[kaylagrl]

this isn't really relevant but i'm always looking for excuses to repost this picture:

View attachment 92868

Hahah I posted this somewhere in a thread.

 

[kaylagrl]

Girl, I KNOW you're smarter than this..lol.. We are not descended from monkeys!! We did not evolve from monkeys into humans.. though alotta ppl here act like monkeys..hmmmm

Hahaha not by much! I was asking evolutionists that say Christians have it all wrong to expand on what they believe.I dont believe in evolution.