Do you agree with the doctrine that says JESUS died spiritually?
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Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and set-apart is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of YHWH and of Messiah, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and set-apart is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of YHWH and of Messiah, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
You're undermining your own argument. If anyone can define a word in the Bible and it doesn't make them right then what makes the definition of "everlasting" right?
Jesus did die.
I';m telling you it doesn't mean everlasting because the Scripture indicate that it doesn't mean everlasting.
34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses. (Lev 16:34 KJV)
7 And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant. (Lev 24:7-8 KJV)
Here are just two passages where "owlam" cannot mean everlasting. Both passages speak of things in old covenant as being everlasting yet both Jesus and Paul said that the old covenant came to an end.
Jesus did die.
I';m telling you it doesn't mean everlasting because the Scripture indicate that it doesn't mean everlasting.
34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses. (Lev 16:34 KJV)
7 And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant. (Lev 24:7-8 KJV)
Here are just two passages where "owlam" cannot mean everlasting. Both passages speak of things in old covenant as being everlasting yet both Jesus and Paul said that the old covenant came to an end.
I'm not twisting anything, if anything I'm straightening things. The plain straightforward meaning of Micah 5:2 as you put it is not translated correctly in your English translation. What I gave you was the plain straightforward mean of the Hebrew.
You're doing the same thing, you're giving me attributes of God. You keep saying that God consists of three persons, Father, Son, and Spirit. What is God, not the attributes. What is it that consists of three persons? Is it a being? What is it?
You have a problem here, Jesus said that He wasn't a spirit.
You're doing the same thing, you're giving me attributes of God. You keep saying that God consists of three persons, Father, Son, and Spirit. What is God, not the attributes. What is it that consists of three persons? Is it a being? What is it?
You have a problem here, Jesus said that He wasn't a spirit.
Could you please show me where it says He went to Heaven when He died, as it says in Acts 2v23-31, Rom 10v7 and 2Peter 2v4 that He went to Tartarus, which is in the Abyss in Hades (Hebrew, Sheol) to make atonement for sin and to purchase our salvation, and so now He has the "keys of Hades and of Death"? (His spirit returned to God, His body went into the tomb and His soul descended into the Abyss at His death, so "yes" He did die spiritually as well at His physical death, also note, that Peter writes that He was "made alive in the spirit" after His physical death, to be "made alive in the sprit" He must have died spiritually first. Matt 27v60, Luke 23v46, 1Peter 3v18-20) Isaiah 53v5-12, Dan 9v24, John 3v16, Gal 3v13, Eph 1v7, Heb 2v17, Rev 1v18.
Please note that Luke 23v43 does NOT teach that Christ went to Heaven when He died. In the original Greek there was no punctuation, verses etc, and the translators put the comma after "thee" instead of "today," so it should read:
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee to day, shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Not, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Christ was telling the thief that he could know that his faith had saved him THAT DAY, and that he would not have to wait until the Millennium kingdom to find out.
Yahweh Shalom
Please note that Luke 23v43 does NOT teach that Christ went to Heaven when He died. In the original Greek there was no punctuation, verses etc, and the translators put the comma after "thee" instead of "today," so it should read:
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee to day, shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Not, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Christ was telling the thief that he could know that his faith had saved him THAT DAY, and that he would not have to wait until the Millennium kingdom to find out.
Yahweh Shalom
K
John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Ephesians 4:8
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Ephesians 4:9
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Ephesians 4:8
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Ephesians 4:9
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
You still didn't answer the question, what is God?
I didn't say He had a beginning I said He came out of God. As I said, God is eternal whatever comes from Him is eternal.
Well, that's speculation. There's nothing in Scripture that says Christ is omniscient or that it was suppressed. Scripture says He was in the form of God and emptied Himself. It doesn't say He suppressed Himself.
It was the Father who was doing the works through Christ.
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (Joh 14:10 KJV)
I didn't say He had a beginning I said He came out of God. As I said, God is eternal whatever comes from Him is eternal.
Well, that's speculation. There's nothing in Scripture that says Christ is omniscient or that it was suppressed. Scripture says He was in the form of God and emptied Himself. It doesn't say He suppressed Himself.
It was the Father who was doing the works through Christ.
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (Joh 14:10 KJV)
Be careful Jason, dividing Jesus and the Christ is dangerous. The Gnostics said that the Christ was spirit that came to dwell in the man Jesus. John said that this teaching was the spirit of Antichrist. John said that the Word became flesh. The Word "IS" Jesus, not a spirit that dwells in the man. You said "Christ's spirit" was omnicient. This idea that there is a spirit that is man comes from Greek philosophy and Gnosticism. Christ is not a spirit, He is a man.
To address your comment, it's speculation again. There is nothing in Scripture that says Jesus is omniscient.
I'd suggest considering some of these passages as metaphors. When Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father, I don't believe He meant with their eyes. They are one in unity, Just like when Jesus prayed in John 17 that His followers would be one. Surely He wasn't praying that all believers would somehow morph into a single person. Or, In Genesis where it is say that the two shall become one flesh, surely it wasn't saying a husband and wife would morph into one being.
To address your comment, it's speculation again. There is nothing in Scripture that says Jesus is omniscient.
I'd suggest considering some of these passages as metaphors. When Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father, I don't believe He meant with their eyes. They are one in unity, Just like when Jesus prayed in John 17 that His followers would be one. Surely He wasn't praying that all believers would somehow morph into a single person. Or, In Genesis where it is say that the two shall become one flesh, surely it wasn't saying a husband and wife would morph into one being.
Dear Butch:
I spent all day replying to your one post with a lot of thought and care (Involving the Scriptures). There is a chance that I may get back to what you had written by tomorrow. However, if I feel you are not really open to hearing anything I say with Scripture, I may not reply back, my friend.
Peace be unto you.
And may God bless you.
I spent all day replying to your one post with a lot of thought and care (Involving the Scriptures). There is a chance that I may get back to what you had written by tomorrow. However, if I feel you are not really open to hearing anything I say with Scripture, I may not reply back, my friend.
Peace be unto you.
And may God bless you.
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