suicide?

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J

Joyispossible

Guest
#41
Well, I believe that it is wrong to rule it out entirely as something that will cause one to go to hell. For aren't all sins equal in God's eyes? None are unforgivable. And no one is perfect. We all will sin and we should repent but if we have a relationship with God the importance is that we strive to succeed, the requirement is not for us to actually achieve perfection. We will not be truely pure and perfect until we are transfigured and have new bodies is Heaven.
The other thing that must be addressed is the fact that God created us in His image, He better than anyone understands how emotions can affect our decisions. I believe sometimes the emotional stress is too much for some people to handle when they resort to suicide. It is overwhelming.
Lastly it must be understood that the only one who knows the condition of the person's heart is God. So it's not for us to determine someone's destination because it won't be one action that determines it, but it will be the condition of their heart and their relationship with God. You cannot assume the condition of the person due to their actions. It is beyond that, us as humans see actions as a reflection of condition but we can't know what they're going through or why people respond how they do. It is not our place to judge this. I believe it is dependent on the person specifically and where they are with God. I have sinned even when very close in my relationship with God so it cannot be said that obviously they were not close with God. Last i checked no one I've met or spoken with can in all honesty say they haven't sinned since they've accepted God as their Savior
I hope that is a solid response :)
 
A

aprilrenee1

Guest
#42
I agree with the heaven idea:=)
 
P

portert100

Guest
#44
If someone commits suicide, are they a victim?
 
C

Cako53

Guest
#45
I would have to say hell, but I think it would be possible to still go to heaven, let me explain. I believe that you can lose your salvation, if you fall away from God. So if you kill yourself you have just commited murder, and therefor sinned and seperated yourself. When I was in a depression I thought about it a lot. But the thing is I'm sure if you kill yourself, but are still alive, than you will go to heaven. For instance, when your jugular is cut, you have 30 some seconds until you dies of blood loss. SO if you truly mean your repentance than you will go to heaven.
 
G

Garrison

Guest
#46
I would have to say hell, but I think it would be possible to still go to heaven, let me explain. I believe that you can lose your salvation, if you fall away from God. So if you kill yourself you have just commited murder, and therefor sinned and seperated yourself. When I was in a depression I thought about it a lot. But the thing is I'm sure if you kill yourself, but are still alive, than you will go to heaven. For instance, when your jugular is cut, you have 30 some seconds until you dies of blood loss. SO if you truly mean your repentance than you will go to heaven.
Great! I like that a lot!
 
B

BellaFlor

Guest
#47
I would have to say hell, but I think it would be possible to still go to heaven, let me explain. I believe that you can lose your salvation, if you fall away from God. So if you kill yourself you have just commited murder, and therefor sinned and seperated yourself. When I was in a depression I thought about it a lot. But the thing is I'm sure if you kill yourself, but are still alive, than you will go to heaven. For instance, when your jugular is cut, you have 30 some seconds until you dies of blood loss. SO if you truly mean your repentance than you will go to heaven.
That's very interesting. I read that someone that shoot himself in the head were still moving for a bit before dying, made me thinking of; What if he truly repented and asked God for forgiveness before he died, and then were afterall saved? Although the person had been murdering and injuring some more people before taking away his own life, but the same did Paul before he met Christ, and still he got forgiven and saved as well. Good thought. :)
 
B

BellaFlor

Guest
#49
While I respect the opinions of others concerning this issue, I think everyone will agree that this issue is a serious one and one that requires deep study and understanding of scripture as a whole. Let's put popular theology aside, and really think about this for a moment. We owe it to those whose lives may hang in the balance.

The bible says that's it's impossible to please God without faith. Scripture also tells us that we are saved by grace through faith. While both grace and faith are gifts given freely by God, scripturally a person can both grow and lose faith. For a christian to commit suicide would mean that a person has lost all faith in God has decided to take matters into their own hands. Essentially they have elevated their circumstances to an "idol-like" status giving it power over God's ability to act on their behalf. In other words, their circumstances (most likely fuled by demonic influence) become their "God" thus not only would a christian who commits suicide be guilty of murder but idolatry also.

I wish this issue were as cut and dry as once saved always saved, it would definitely make matters so much easier however, the more familiar you are with scripture as a whole the more you will realize that there are far more implications that need to addressed.

Please don't think I'm trying to be self righteous with my answer, that is not intent at all. This is a very serious and real issue that I feel deserves a very serious and real answer.
Yes, I also beleive it is very demonical influenced, full of lies and deceitful. Very certainly, I don't beleive one should say that every suicidal person is having a mental illness etc... Most of them commit suicide because of having no more hope in their lives, nor having/feeling much love.

How can the love of God being "complete" in them if they feel like there is no more point in continue living their lives? Also "happiness" is something many of those suicide victims are longing for and wishing for, and having happiness is to be having love as well. You can't feel happy if you don't have nor feel any love. That way hopelessness digs more deep within you too, and then what more do you have or feel like living for if you have no more love and no more hope left in you?

It is a very sad and difficult topic to discuss whether they go to heaven or to hell. Still, I do think that it is not God's Will for any of us to be taking suicide. Life is a gift from God, and only He decides when He will give life and when He will take it away. No matter how hard and difficult our circumstances might be, He never gives any of us more than we can bear. Most of us can get through our own struggles with God's help, the same I think it also goes to those that takes suicide. They do have the strenght to get through, or else God would have taken them back to Him already. God has a great plan with every single person that He places on earth, but not everybody knows Him nor cares about Him, and still there are many that needs to get saved that are still being lost.

But for those of us that have recieved salvation, then if taking suicide like a Christian can justify our life with Him, thinking it is alright to end it, what example does we will give to other Christians with their own struggles too? Taking suicide is like saying that everyone struggling a lot should have the right to end it, because this is to much for us to bear. You rely most on your own decisions, and justify taking suicide with that you were given to much suffering on earth, to much that even God can't help you with. I think that is an ridicolous statement, because with God each one of us can make it. Even persecuted Christians in other parts of our world that goes through a lot of torture both physical and mentally but that still have survived and come through, because of their faith and commitment to God, whilst many Christians in the western world justifies suicide sin with that I can't take it anymore and God can't help me any farther, there is no more hope for me to survive through, but God will understand this?. Most persecuted Christians are more centered on God, whilst most western Christians are more centered on themselves. This is a true fact, and this is the way many of us here in the western world are like.

Of course life isn't always easy to live, and I do know how hard it can be struggling a lot mentally, I do that still, at times.... And the thought of taking suicide can at moments feel like very appealing to me, too. Still, this is most a very painful feeling, but never something I do. Because I want to become a Victorious Christian, and battle my way through with God by my side. I want to live out what plan God has for me, and do whatever calls God has given to me. I want to grow stronger through my experiences, both good and bad ones, so that I can also get more through with more life knowledge and with more of insight and wisdom from God. I do have my times of depression and when feeling all left by myself and alone, feeling that I am not much worth, and not worth to love. I do have my times when feeling like life isn't so interesting and not much worth living, and that it can be so boring and useless at times. We can feel so much pain and sadness inside of us, but at the same time long for continue living, but most to be living a life of happiness. I do truly Love to be living life, yesterday I did experience that wonderful feeling, feeling so alive, and so happy, and I just wanted to smile a lot, and laugh...

I beleive that we all do have a desire to live, and not to die. For most of us, death is a sad event. It might seem like a good way out, but I don't think that most people that are happy really gets this thought strucked to their mind.


"What profit has the worker from that in which he labors? I have seen the God-given task with which the sons of men are to be occupied. He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end. I know that nothing is better for them than to rejoice, and to do good in their lives, and also that every man should eat and drink and enjoy the good of all his labor—it is the gift of God. I know that whatever God does, It shall be forever." (Ecclesiastes 3, 9-14a)
 
M

Maddog

Guest
#50
I would have to say hell, but I think it would be possible to still go to heaven, let me explain. I believe that you can lose your salvation, if you fall away from God. So if you kill yourself you have just commited murder, and therefor sinned and seperated yourself. When I was in a depression I thought about it a lot. But the thing is I'm sure if you kill yourself, but are still alive, than you will go to heaven. For instance, when your jugular is cut, you have 30 some seconds until you dies of blood loss. SO if you truly mean your repentance than you will go to heaven.
May I offer another alternative? 'Sin' isn't defined purely by the act itself, but by other factors as well such as motive, knowledge of the evil of the act, and how far one's consent is given toward the act. For example, murder is different to manslaughter even though in both cases a life has been taken. To be clear, objectively suicide is a serious offence against God, but I believe the degree of sinfulness can be lessened depending on the circumstances. Mental illness, for example, could lessen or even negate the individual's culpability for his actions.
 
S

ShariJo

Guest
#51
May I offer another alternative? 'Sin' isn't defined purely by the act itself, but by other factors as well such as motive, knowledge of the evil of the act, and how far one's consent is given toward the act. For example, murder is different to manslaughter even though in both cases a life has been taken. To be clear, objectively suicide is a serious offence against God, but I believe the degree of sinfulness can be lessened depending on the circumstances. Mental illness, for example, could lessen or even negate the individual's culpability for his actions.
I totally agree with you on this point!
I know of this family- they were on a vacation when the dad fell asleep at the wheel and he ended up killing his wife and family in the process. He went absolutely crazy and ended up committing suicide!
Now, we are talking good, Christian people!! I have no doubt that this man went to heaven...I believe he was mentally ill.
 
C

Cako53

Guest
#52
May I offer another alternative? 'Sin' isn't defined purely by the act itself, but by other factors as well such as motive, knowledge of the evil of the act, and how far one's consent is given toward the act. For example, murder is different to manslaughter even though in both cases a life has been taken. To be clear, objectively suicide is a serious offence against God, but I believe the degree of sinfulness can be lessened depending on the circumstances. Mental illness, for example, could lessen or even negate the individual's culpability for his actions.
I do understand what you are saying, but I don't believe this has put us in a disagreement. has it? :S
 
V

Vidy

Guest
#53
You guys have a major flaw in your logic... You say that sin causes separation from God, and that you are not reunited with him until you repent. If that's the case, then we're ALL going to hell, since, as someone said earlier, there's bound to be SOMETHING we haven't repented for.

Sin doesn't cause that kind of separation. It keeps us from having a right relationship with God, but we are still His. Nothing changes that, period.

Are you saying that if someone is walking down the street, sees a woman, looks at her lustfully, then gets shot in a drive-by, he'll go to hell since he didn't repent? Yeah, right -.-
 
C

Cako53

Guest
#54
You guys have a major flaw in your logic... You say that sin causes separation from God, and that you are not reunited with him until you repent. If that's the case, then we're ALL going to hell, since, as someone said earlier, there's bound to be SOMETHING we haven't repented for.

Sin doesn't cause that kind of separation. It keeps us from having a right relationship with God, but we are still His. Nothing changes that, period.

Are you saying that if someone is walking down the street, sees a woman, looks at her lustfully, then gets shot in a drive-by, he'll go to hell since he didn't repent? Yeah, right -.-
so do you believe in eternal salvation?
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#55
so anyone committing a sin and dying before asking forgiveness is doomed?
 
E

Emu

Guest
#56
I think it's a great shame. The person person doesn't live Gods plan for their life, they don't live life to the full and they cannot show and experience the love of God and others. That said the bible's pretty clear that our salvation is sure and nothing can take that away - even the tragedy of suicide.
 
C

Cako53

Guest
#57
I think it's a great shame. The person person doesn't live Gods plan for their life, they don't live life to the full and they cannot show and experience the love of God and others. That said the bible's pretty clear that our salvation is sure and nothing can take that away - even the tragedy of suicide.
But we can fall away from the faith, and lose our salvation. I haven't seen any verse in the bible telling us that just because we ask Jedsus into our hearts mean that we will go to heaven no matter what. More people have gone to hell because of the Lord's prayer, than most other things.
 
F

FirePanther

Guest
#58
this is a complicated topic but it's good that we speak about it.
In my opinion who suicides risks hell... it's sad but I think it's the truth :( Because suiciding it's saying: God can't help me! Suiciding it's rejecting God's gift of life.. This is my opinion..

but yes once saved, always saved.
I personally disagree with this doctrine.. In my opinion that's an illusion from the devil that brings many christian to live without giving too much importance to their santification.. It's true that we are saved by grace and it's for faith, but if we lose that faith what will save us? Also the Bible says that without good works our faith is dead. In my opinion a true faith will put in action. I don't want to hurt anyone but I think that in our days, a comfortable Gospel it's preached .You pray one time then you relax on your bed living your life the way you like..

Matthew 24:12-13
12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

I think this verse speaks loud and clear :)
 
D

dustin

Guest
#59
i lost 35 year old cosuin too suiside last year his wife drove him too it she wnated a divorce and tkae hi skids away from him poor guy wroked 6 dyas week finally he sanpped and did it
 
D

dustin

Guest
#60
suisde what happned if u ar dying of cancer can't take pain anymore and u do it is it sin