When Was Jesus Born?

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When Was Jesus Born?

  • December 25th

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • In the Fall Sometime

    Votes: 10 52.6%
  • It Doesn't Matter

    Votes: 8 42.1%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .
Following your math here is difficult. You understand about the year zero problem, so 457BC plus 483 years comes to 26AD. Then you add a year for the "no year zero" correction and come to 27AD. Now a 3-1/2 year ministry puts us into the year of 31AD.
Daniel 9:

[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



457 B.C. - The decree went forth to rebuild the city.
445 B.C. - The wall of the city is built in 52 days.
405 B.C. - The rebuilding of the city ends 52 years after the decree went forth.
- 3 B.C. - Christ is born in Bethlehem.
- - - - -- ( Remember that there is no year 0. )
-30 A.D. - Christ is crucified 62 x 7 = 434 years after the rebuilding of the city ends.
- - - - -- ( NOT 434 years after the end of the 7th week - look carefully at Daniel 9:25-26 )
-34 A.D. - Daniel's 70 weeks end 70 x 7 = 490 years after the decree went forth.
~ verse 24 -> 70 weeks ( 490 years ) total

~ verse 25 -> 69 weeks ( 483 years ) from the 'command' until Christ ( His baptism; start of His ministry )

~ verse 26 -> 62 weeks ( 434 years ) from the end of the rebuilding of the city until the crucifixion

The start of this 62 weeks is at the end of the rebuilding of the city. ( middle of the 8th week )
The end of this 62 weeks is in the middle of the 70th week.

405 B.C. + 434 years => 30 A.D. ( with no-zero-year correction )

:)
 
a long time ago what difference does it make?

I would ask you the same question about any other prophetic passage in the Bible, do you believe that none of them make any difference? Some of them? Or just maybe...

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and Christ said this...

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Which parts of God's Word don't make any difference and should be discarded?
 
Daniel 9:

[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.




~ verse 24 -> 70 weeks ( 490 years ) total

~ verse 25 -> 69 weeks ( 483 years ) from the 'command' until Christ ( His baptism; start of His ministry )

~ verse 26 -> 62 weeks ( 434 years ) from the end of the rebuilding of the city until the crucifixion

The start of this 62 weeks is at the end of the rebuilding of the city. ( middle of the 8th week )
The end of this 62 weeks is in the middle of the 70th week.

405 B.C. + 434 years => 30 A.D. ( with no-zero-year correction )

:)

OK, lemme see, the decree goes forth in 457BC, we add 7 weeks and get...

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

What it really says here is not to count from the middle of the weeks but to count 7 complete weeks...

7 weeks * 7 days = 49 days = 49 years...

457BC + 49 years = 408BC

and now, 62 weeks...

62 weeks = 434 days = 434 years...

408BC + 434 years = 26AD

Now correct for no year zero and we come to 27AD. Christ began His public ministry in 27AD.

If I tell you that I am going on vacation for 7 weeks, why would you assume that I am going on vacation for 7-1/2 weeks?

The start of this 62 weeks is at the end of the rebuilding of the city. ( middle of the 8th week )

If you count the first half of the eighth week in the 7 weeks, you have to subtract it from the first week of the 62 weeks, else you have counted 3-1/2 years TWICE.
 

Yes, I agree that he was born sometime between Sept 24 and Sept 29, 0004 BC

I would suggest His birth was at the Feast of Tabernacles 5 BC:

Yom Kippur in the Year 5 BC, fell on Monday, 11[SUP]th[/SUP] September (ie Tishri 10), the Feast of Tabernacles ran from Saturday, 16[SUP]th[/SUP] September to Saturday, 23[SUP]rd[/SUP] September, ie Tishri 15 to Tishri 22 (the Last Great Day being Saturday, 23[SUP]rd[/SUP] September 5 BC), so the Lord Jesus would have been born between 16[SUP]th[/SUP] to 22[SUP]nd[/SUP] September 5 BC.

Christ was crucified on Thursday, 6[SUP]th[/SUP] April 30 AD, you can find more on this Here and its connection with Daniel's 70 Weeks prophecy.

Yahweh Shalom
 
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If you count the first half of the eighth week in the 7 weeks, you have to subtract it from the first week of the 62 weeks, else you have counted 3-1/2 years TWICE.
Nothing is added, subtracted, or counted twice -- 62 weeks from the middle of the eighth week is the middle of the 70 week.



Within the context of verse 25 - 'seven weeks' does not hold any special significance of its own ( neither does 'threescore and two weeks' ). It is only part of a total of 69 weeks.

The phrase 'threescore and two weeks' in verse 26 is not actually aligned perfectly with the 'threescore and two weeks' in verse 25.

The phrase 'threescore and two weeks' in verse 25 is only part of a total of 69 weeks.

The phrase 'threescore and two weeks' in verse 26 actually refers to a particular start-to-finish range of time of 62 weeks in the same way that verse 25 indicates a start-to-finish range of time of 69 weeks.

In the 'grammar of the language', the phrase 'And after' in verse 26 refers back to the phrase 'the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times' in verse 25. What this indicates is that, the start of the 62 weeks ( verse 26 ) is at the time of the end of - or, the completion of, the rebuilding of the city. History shows us that it took 52+ years to complete the rebuilding of the city. This places the end of the 62 weeks ( verse 26 ) in the middle of the 70th week -- which aligns with the statements of verse 25 ( 'shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself' ) and verse 27 ( 'and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease' ) that are about the crucifixion of Christ.

:)
 
Jesus was born in the fullness of time when the Romans ruled and executed by crucifixion. To fulfill bible prophecy and the same reason why when He was on the cross and beaten to almost death, He said I thirst. To fulfill the prophecy.
 
Lambs are Born

lambsAreBorn.jpg
Sheep have their lambs in late winter or early spring as they also need to eat lots of fresh grass so that they can make milk for their lambs.
Baby lambs are Born in Spring

Timing of the Crucifixion and the Resurrection
(Edition 5.0 19960413-20040321-20070511-20030314)

John 1:36 When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”

Here a site that give a lot of information about when Jesus was born.

Conventional Christendom teaches a Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Historical records show this doctrine was not taught by the Apostles or the early New Testament Church. This paper examines the Scriptures, history, lunar calendar data, and recent research evidence and lets them provide the truth of the timing. Evidence is presented that Christ’s ministry was for two-and-a-half years, not for three-and-a-halfyears as has sometimes been inferred from some translations of Daniel 9. A detailed analysis of the events during the six days before the Passover is provided. This paper includes new work which shows that the year of the crucifixion was 30 CE rather than 31 CE or 33 CE as many have believed. Timing of the Crucifixion and the Resurrection (No. 159)

New life comes into being with the spring. I like the fact that Lambs are born generally around this time. Very interesting. While I am not given a specific time of Christ's birth within the Scriptures yet, this does seem like a possibility based on the fact that Christ came to give us new life (Just like new crops, trees, grass, birds, all start showing signs of new life during this time). In other words, while I do not know for 100% certainty that this is when Jesus was born, it does seem like the most likely possibility.

As for the second link on the crucifixion: Well, I agree with a Wednesday crucifixion, but I don't believe Jesus was crucified on a stake, though. I believe that He was crucified on a cross. For...

#1. The Scriptures plainly say Jesus was crucified on a cross.
#2. Crucifixion was one of the methods of punishment by the Romans during that time.
#3. Biblical Numerics supports the fact that Christ was crucified on a cross.

For there were 3 crosses with 3 people on them. 3 languages on the sign above his head. He was in the heart of the Earth for 3 days and 3 nights. He died at 3:00PM (i.e. the ninth hour). 3 Marys (John 19:25). 3 nails or spikes were used to crucify our Lord. In other words, when we look at a cross placed in the ground, they appear to have 3 top major points to them.

Side Note:

I also believe Jesus was risen at exactly 3:00PM on Saturday within the Tomb and not Saturday evening. the 72 hour clock of Jesus being in the heart of the Earth (i.e. Abraham's bosom) would begin with his death at 3:00PM and not the time his body was placed in the tomb. His body was just a shell (i.e. temple). In fact, Jesus said to the thief on the cross that he would be wiith him that very day in paradise, too.
 
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Nothing is added, subtracted, or counted twice -- 62 weeks from the middle of the eighth week is the middle of the 70 week.



Within the context of verse 25 - 'seven weeks' does not hold any special significance of its own ( neither does 'threescore and two weeks' ). It is only part of a total of 69 weeks.

The phrase 'threescore and two weeks' in verse 26 is not actually aligned perfectly with the 'threescore and two weeks' in verse 25.

The phrase 'threescore and two weeks' in verse 25 is only part of a total of 69 weeks.

The phrase 'threescore and two weeks' in verse 26 actually refers to a particular start-to-finish range of time of 62 weeks in the same way that verse 25 indicates a start-to-finish range of time of 69 weeks.

In the 'grammar of the language', the phrase 'And after' in verse 26 refers back to the phrase 'the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times' in verse 25. What this indicates is that, the start of the 62 weeks ( verse 26 ) is at the time of the end of - or, the completion of, the rebuilding of the city. History shows us that it took 52+ years to complete the rebuilding of the city. This places the end of the 62 weeks ( verse 26 ) in the middle of the 70th week -- which aligns with the statements of verse 25 ( 'shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself' ) and verse 27 ( 'and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease' ) that are about the crucifixion of Christ.

:)

Where precisely, in Dan 9, are we told to count from the middle of the week?
 
Jesus was born in the fullness of time when the Romans ruled and executed by crucifixion. To fulfill bible prophecy and the same reason why when He was on the cross and beaten to almost death, He said I thirst. To fulfill the prophecy.
best answer "to fulfill all prophecy" and it was fulfilled exactly to the day (not recognized here; and not worth debating here)

I would ask you the same question about any other prophetic passage in the Bible, do you believe that none of them make any difference? Some of them? Or just maybe...
\....

Which parts of God's Word don't make any difference and should be discarded?
Scripture and Jesus is not honored in today's churches. The Truth has been discarded. Man's traditions in its place.(even in 'Bible churches') (with, perhaps, remnant exceptions)

a long time ago what difference does it make?

the creator is very precise in his word. exactly to the day precise in many prophecies. but to man today, <shrug>no difference.... no difference at all.
 
the creator is very precise in his word. exactly to the day precise in many prophecies. but to man today, <shrug>no difference.... no difference at all.

Exactly precise. That is why when the Word says something, it says what it means and means what it says. We must carefully read the scriptures.
 
Please read in it's entirety. Thanks.

[...]

I said all of that to say/ask this...

Seeing how all of the SPRINGTIME FEASTS pointed to or foreshadowed events which would be fulfilled in/by Christ AT HIS FIRST COMING, doesn't it make sense that God would have also foreshadowed HIS BIRTH which most certainly occurred AT HIS FIRST COMING in a SPRINGTIME EVENT OR FEAST, too?

Everything you posted above your question is pretty accurate. But your question itself makes a leap in assumption.

You assume because the Spring feasts were fulfilled at Christ's first coming that even his birth was *also* fulfilled during spring feasts as an intermediary fulfillment of sorts. Such reasoning (that a feast has multiple fulfillments) is actually quite valid.

However, that doesn't lend itself to the reason why Christ would be born during the Spring feasts. In fact, the idea of multiple fulfillments equally lends credibility to the possibility that Christ was born during a fall feasts as an intermediary fulfillment (through not the final fulfillment). If multiple fulfillment is true for one feast it's true for them all.

"Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:" (Deuteronomy 16:16)

Did you catch that?

There were three different feasts, Passover/Unleavened Bread (they dovetailed together), Pentecost (or the Feast of Weeks or the aforementioned "fifty days") AND THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES which all Israeli males were commanded to keep IN JERUSALEM or "in the place where He (the LORD thy God) shall choose". With such being the case, do you believe that God would go against His Own commandment and have Joseph, an Israeli male, be found IN BETHLEHEM during THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES if Jesus was truly born during this feast? What about some of the other "males" that we read about in the gospel accounts of Christ's birth? Were any of them Israelis (the inn keeper who was possibly/probably a male, the shepherds who were possibly/probably males, etc.)? If so, then why weren't they IN JERUSALEM as opposed to being found IN BETHLEHEM if Christ was truly born on the Feast of Tabernacles?

Truly, the commandment was for all males to appear at the temple during feasts...but let's reason this out:

Would all male babies be required to be at the temple during these times? No..

Would any sick & infirm males be required to be at the temple during these times? No..

God is not a Pharisee, and when I say that I mean God has always provided mercy over his law superseding its letter. In fact, that's what the ark typifies as the tablets of the law are "covered over" by (what's called) the mercy seat. The same God who's son said "if your animal falls in a well on the Sabbath would you not lift it out?" So would a man be counted as a law breaker if he still obeyed the law of God while attending to his wife who's in labor...who has no reasonable place to birth their child? Would Joseph be able to travel to the feast in this situation? No..

The law specifically required that all able-bodied men build a sukkah as a "temporary dwelling" and live in it for 7 days as a prophetic foretelling of "something". Now your first section accurately shows that each feast/holy day is a "thematic rehearsal" of what was supposed to happen when it was actually fulfilled.


  • Passover = a lamb is sacrificed
  • Unleavened bread = Leaven is purged; the pure bread is eaten
  • First fruits = The 1st of God's harvest is pure bread "offered up", ascending to heaven (in the smoke of the altar)
  • Shavuot/Pentecost = The 2nd of God's harvest is *leavened* bread "recognized" (i.e. waved), but not offered up
  • Day of Trumpets = Announcement & reminder of the Law that was given to the people
  • Day of Atonement = Judgment day, when the soul is afflicted
  • Tabernacles = To remember temporarily housing in the wilderness
  • Last Great Day = When the water is poured out

And as you show (at least for the Spring feasts), the theme perfectly plays out for each feast/holy day because these were God's rehearsals that he commanded his people to remember. So out of all of these "themes", there's only one time when God reminded us of the "temporary house" (which is what Christ's flesh was), at Tabernacles. Christ spoke of his body as the temple of God. Christ was God's temporary dwelling place He descended into to be with men (on earth). The theme must match. That temporary house was created on tabernacles.

Contrarily, at first fruits the offering is "sent up" to God (in heaven)...God isn't "descending" to man (on earth) at first fruits. In fact, remember how Christ first told the woman not to touch him because he hadn't yet ascended to his father on that day? When Christ was born, God descended *down* to man (on earth)...and his mother even birthed him in a temporary housing, matching only one theme in the list.


Now as to the inn keeper, we have no idea who he was so we can't just assume he was a Jew. At the time of Christ the land was filled with at least Jews, Samaritans, and Romans...but what was important for Christ birth was that there were witnesses of it. Like Christ once said "if even the rocks must cry out..." there will be witnesses. Now Gabriel told the shepherds that "in the city of David the messiah is born", so it's a fact they weren't actually in Bethlehem when they were told this.

Who knows where they were. If they were Jews, they didn't have to be at the temple because it was now night time (Luke 2:8), and the official *morning* of Tabernacles was when the sun rises several hours later (...remember first the evening then the morning makes the day). Or they could have been gentiles...just like the "wise men" (Chaldean Astronomers) were who traveled from the east and gave gifts to Christ a year later.

Furthermore, we read the following in relation to the timing of Christ's birth in Luke's gospel account:

Luke chapter 2

[1] And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
[2] (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
[3] And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
[4] And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
[5] To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
[6] And so it was, that, while they were there,
the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
[7] And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
[8] And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

Seeing how Caesar's decree required everyone to return "into his own city" and seeing how such a decree would have caused a lot more Israeli males than just Joseph to depart from Jerusalem, why don't we read of any sort of outburst or uprising amongst Israeli males in that such a decree would have forced them to disobey God's command that they all be in Jerusalem during the Feast of Tabernacles? We read or hear of no such outburst or uprising because Jesus wasn't born on the Feast of Tabernacles.

(Continued in next post due to length)
 

There wasn't a decree for all the world to be taxed, it was a vote...but aside from that, how long should one assume a census would take for a particular household? Were they required to stay in their respective lands indefinitely? One simply must register the name of himself and his family. We don't know when this happened, but it obviously didn't happen in Joseph and Mary's home because they had no home around this time just yet.

Note that the text says "in those days"...and "while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered". We have a tendency to read scripture and frame it in one instance of time but these were several (unknown) days - possibly several weeks - spanning the time from Joseph reaching his home town for the census, to Mary's time of birth. But one thing is clear (at least thematically up to this point), tabernacles at evening would've been Mary's delivery date.

----

As to your concluding post;

Your passage in Exodus 40 is actually noteworthy. Truly, in the 1st month God descended into his tabernacle for the first time, on the first day of the first month, after the tabernacle was "erected" for the first time (per Ex 40:34-35). But the tabernacle was not "constructed/created" on the 1st day of the 1st month. I think you'd be interesting to know that it was "constructed" at the end of the 6th month, and most likely well into the 7th month...

Exodus 12:1-2 - Beginning of Months...15th of 1st month they came out of Egypt

Exodus 16:1-5; 12; 26 - Manna week...(15th of 2nd month)

Exodus 19:1; 10; 16 & 24:9-11 - Feast of Shavuot/Pentecost (approx middle of 3rd month)

Exodus 24:18 - Moses called higher for 40 days/nights getting instructions
...(Israel sins with calf; so end of 4th month)
...Moses judges people; tablets are broken

Exodus 34:28 - Moses returned to God for another 40 days (now in the 6th month)
...Moses comes back down with his face glowing.

Moses then instructs Israel on building the Tabernacle; on what materials are needed.

Exodus 36:2 - "morning after morning" the people began building all that was instructed; first the sanctuary.

Exodus 36:8 - And then the Tabernacle *began* in its construction after the sanctuary

Exodus 39:32 - The tabernacle was completed and inspected my Moses
...this is before God instructed that it was to be erected on the 1st day of the 1st month of the next year.


This entire OT accounts perfectly coincides with Christ's story in the NT as fulfillment. Christ was born in the 7th month (i.e. the living tabernacle of flesh "constructed/created") but it was after Christ was baptized, and God's spirit descended into him, that the acceptable year of the lord began on the 1st day of the 1st month of year of his ministry.
 
Yahshua said:
Everything you posted above your question is pretty accurate. But your question itself makes a leap in assumption.

You assume because the Spring feasts were fulfilled at Christ's first coming that even his birth was *also* fulfilled during spring feasts as an intermediary fulfillment of sorts. Such reasoning (that a feast has multiple fulfillments) is actually quite valid.

However, that doesn't lend itself to the reason why Christ would be born during the Spring feasts. In fact, the idea of multiple fulfillments equally lends credibility to the possibility that Christ was born during a fall feasts as an intermediary fulfillment (through not the final fulfillment). If multiple fulfillment is true for one feast it's true for them all.
I honestly don't know what you mean by "intermediary fulfillment". Can you explain that to me? Thanks.
 
I honestly don't know what you mean by "intermediary fulfillment". Can you explain that to me? Thanks.

Well we both agree that the Spring feasts were fulfilled during Christ first ministry. There's a finality in their fulfillment as nothing is necessary for them to have a repeat fulfillment. Thus I would say those feasts saw "final fulfillment" in Christ when he died, rose again, ascended to heaven, dispensed the Holy Spirit.

...But in you saying Christ was also born during the spring feasts also in fulfillment of them (prior to him fulfilling them again as a man), then you believe that there was an intermediary (middle) fulfillment (if you will) of the Spring Feasts before their final fulfillment when he's in his 30s, correct? Maybe I'm falsely assuming you believe this?

It's not an official term but I was just trying to describe that, yes, there's clear evidence of recurring fulfillment of God's feasts in scripture.
 
Well we both agree that the Spring feasts were fulfilled during Christ first ministry. There's a finality in their fulfillment as nothing is necessary for them to have a repeat fulfillment. Thus I would say those feasts saw "final fulfillment" in Christ when he died, rose again, ascended to heaven, dispensed the Holy Spirit.

...But in you saying Christ was also born during the spring feasts also in fulfillment of them (prior to him fulfilling them again as a man), then you believe that there was an intermediary (middle) fulfillment (if you will) of the Spring Feasts before their final fulfillment when he's in his 30s, correct? Maybe I'm falsely assuming you believe this?

It's not an official term but I was just trying to describe that, yes, there's clear evidence of recurring fulfillment of God's feasts in scripture.
Thanks for your explanation, but, no, I don't believe that Christ was born DURING the Springtime Feasts. Rather, as I've pretty plainly stated, I believe that He very well may have been born on the first day of the first month or on the day when the tabernacle was fully erected. There were no Springtime Feasts on that particular day.

Anyhow, it might take me a couple of days to get to the rest of your post (I'm bouncing around on some other threads, too), but I will get to it by some time this weekend. Lord willing, of course. Thanks.