Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[dcontroversal]

Mk 16:16-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:28------baptism>>>>>>>>>>for the remission of sins
Acts 22:16-----baptism>>>>>>>>>>wash away sins
1Pet3:21-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saves
Gal 3:27--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>in Christ
Col 2:12,13----baptism>>>>>>>>>>put off the body of sin
Rom 6:4-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>walk in newness of life
1 Cor 12:13----baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body
Jn 3:5----------baptized>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom


The bible clearly connects baptism to salvation. No remitted sins, no walking in newness of life, no being in Christ, no being in the body/kingdom without baptism.

Yeah and no context connected....Baptism is first act of obedience after salvation....not going to argue with someone who regurgitates Cambellism dude. Context dictates all of the above uses of baptism and I can give 3, 4, 5 to one verses that teach faith, grace, hope based salvation void of immersion so your points are moot!

 

[SeaBass]

How many times and how many ways must you be told?

We are saved by grace it is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. Salvation is a gift which cannot be earned, deserved or merited. It is not a reward for our efforts but the fruit of the sacrifice of Gods own Son. Salvation is wonderful and magnificent beyond description. It is to be received with thanksgiving.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Water baptism is the means God has chosen to save men...

1Pet 3:4-------- baptism now saves us or faith only now saves us
Mk 16:16-------believe & be baptized saved or belief only saved
Gal 3:27--------baptized into Christ or belief only into Christ
Rom 6:4--------baptized walk in newness of life or belief only walk in newness of life
1Cor12:13------baptized into the body or belief only into the body
Col 2:12,13----baptism put of the body of sin or belief only put off the body of sin
Acts 2:38------baptism for remission of sin or belief only for remission of sin

 

[SeaBass]

Yeah and no context connected....Baptism is first act of obedience after salvation....not going to argue with someone who regurgitates Cambellism dude. Context dictates all of the above uses of baptism and I can give 3, 4, 5 to one verses that teach faith, grace, hope based salvation void of immersion so your points are moot!

Mk 16:16-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saved
Acts 2:28------baptism>>>>>>>>>>for the remission of sins
Acts 22:16-----baptism>>>>>>>>>>wash away sins
1Pet3:21-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saves
Gal 3:27--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>in Christ
Col 2:12,13----baptism>>>>>>>>>>put off the body of sin
Rom 6:4-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>walk in newness of life
1 Cor 12:13----baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body
Jn 3:5----------baptized>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom

All these verses put baptism BEFORE saved BEFORE remitted sins BEFORE being in the kingdom-body BEFORE being in Christ BEFORE walking in newness of life BEFORE wash away sins.

The man-made faith only theology completely reverses/rewrites the order of things from how the bible has it.



Since,

Eph 2:8------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21----baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Then any verse you show me that says faith saves, that faith must include baptism since there is just one way to be saved. What cannot be shown is the verse that says faith only saves WITHOUT adding to God's word, as Luther added to God's word.

 

[notuptome]

Water baptism is the means God has chosen to save men...

1Pet 3:4-------- baptism now saves us or faith only now saves us
Mk 16:16-------believe & be baptized saved or belief only saved
Gal 3:27--------baptized into Christ or belief only into Christ
Rom 6:4--------baptized walk in newness of life or belief only walk in newness of life
1Cor12:13------baptized into the body or belief only into the body
Col 2:12,13----baptism put of the body of sin or belief only put off the body of sin
Acts 2:38------baptism for remission of sin or belief only for remission of sin

How do you reconcile your position with Ephesians 2:8-9 where scripture clearly states that we are saved by grace through faith. There is no mention of water baptism anywhere in the verse. Was Paul lying or just completely wrong when under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit he penned these words?

Until and unless you can harmonize these scriptures your doctrine is in error. Salvation is not be water baptism. There is no water baptism in John 3:16 either. That is right from the lips of Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Mitspa]

A person can be dunked a thousands times but until they believe the Gospel...they cannot be saved.

Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

Paul did not teach salvation by baptism but salvation through faith in the gospel and baptism as a picture and as a act of obedience to the gospel that has ALREADY saved the believer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Salvation then takes BOTH Christ's death and man's obedient work of believing.

Since,

Believing>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

and there is just one way to be saved then a saving belief must include baptism.

Nope. Because you ignored what Jesus said.

it is the WORK OF GOD that we believe.

You can not equate that to a work of man in water baptism,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nooooo.

(Sticks fingers in ears)

I tried to ignore this guy, because his stuff is so out there that it is amazing even he believes it, But everyone wants to respond to him.

Unless we all stop responding to him, he will continue his nonsense, And we will have to listen to it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lord Jesus also said that those who believe in Him are both hearers and doers, and not hearers only.
( Luke 6:46 )

I never claimed otherwise, Your the one who claims one can be a hearer, have faith, and not do. not me..

Lord Jesus also said those who believe in Him will keep His commandments, those who don't believe in Him will not keep His commandments.

This is what I have been saying all along. You are saying one can do both, and STILL not make it to heaven And one can have faith, and still not keep his commands, not me. I have never claimed that

John 14:23

Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

Here our Lord Jesus is saying only if you are obedient will He reside in you, and you will inherit the kingdom of heaven, salvation.
Yet some will keep saying we don't have to obey His commands.

I have yet to hear one person say this, Thus you again are making a false accusation.

However, One can not obey until first god saves them, otherwise it is human good. A natural man can ONLY perform natural things (carnal) only a psiritual man (born of the spirit) can do spiritual things, (pruduce fruit from good deeds)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, because that obedience has to be done out of love for Him and not out of grudgingly or obligation.....
That is why I fight so hard for the love of our Lord about obedience to Him, because my love for Him will not sit back and let people tell others they do not have to obey the Lord's commands. To say that you don't have to do His commands is like saying to the Lord, I believe in you but I don't care what you said I still don't have to do it.....

So in other words, You will not stand back and allow a person WHO CLAIMES HE HAS FAITH, but has NO WORK to prove his faith, to continue to think he is saved? How about telling the person the truth, and show them how they WERE NEVER SAVED, that if they HAD TRUE FAITH, they would not be doing what they are doing?

 

[Mitspa]

But you are not "hashing and dividing" Paul's words????

You claim the verse literally means Christ did not send Paul to baptized but Paul DID baptized. Did he disobey Christ by baptizing? In Christ's great commission (Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16) Christ commissioned all His disciples, which includes Paul, to go, teach and baptized. Why would Christ contradict Himself by sending disciples to teach and baptized then tell them not to baptize? Including the fact Paul did baptize, there evidently is some twisting of Paul's words in 1 Cor 1:17.

In healing the division at Corinth to make them all be "of" Christ, Paul's words are air tight that no one can claim to be of Christ unless Christ was crucified for that person AND that person was baptized in the name of Christ. The phrase "in the name of" is a legal term, one takes his title and papers to the clerks office to have his newly purchased car put "in the name of" the buyer. One is not in the ownership "of" Christ until he has been baptized in the name of Christ.

No im saying that baptism must be considered within the truth of all the scriptures and it is a servant to the truth of the gospel, that when one looks at baptism in context of what it represented, it is error to place baptism as a work unto salvation but it is a work from the salvation delivered to us in the gospel.. Its a outward display of the work the gospel has done in that we have died with Christ and been raised with Christ.

 

[kennethcadwell]

So in other words, You will not stand back and allow a person WHO CLAIMES HE HAS FAITH, but has NO WORK to prove his faith, to continue to think he is saved? How about telling the person the truth, and show them how they WERE NEVER SAVED, that if they HAD TRUE FAITH, they would not be doing what they are doing?

I do that to E.G., but the main issue is the many and many of posts where I see some say we don't have to do this, or do that in which the Lord commanded.
To me that is a slap in the face to our Lord for somebody to say that, and shows no real love for Him by that individual.
I mean look at all He went through for us, just for them to sit back and say I know you commanded it but I still don't have to do it. You see how that shows no respect to Him for all He went through for us, to somebody just to turn around be disrespectful by saying they don't have to follow that command.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do that to E.G., but the main issue is the many and many of posts where I see some say we don't have to do this, or do that in which the Lord commanded.

Where do you see this? I have asked so many times, yet you never show me, why if there are so many who say a child of God would not do those things, can I not find them?

To me that is a slap in the face to our Lord for somebody to say that, and shows no real love for Him by that individual.
I mean look at all He went through for us, just for them to sit back and say I know you commanded it but I still don't have to do it. You see how that shows no respect to Him for all He went through for us, to somebody just to turn around be disrespectful by saying they don't have to follow that command.

What is shows is lack of repentance, which caused a lack of faith, which proves a lack of salvation.

so how do we twist a lack of salvation to say salvation has been lost?

 

[kennethcadwell]

I never claimed otherwise, Your the one who claims one can be a hearer, have faith, and not do. not me..

I never said that you can just hear and not do !!!


This is what I have been saying all along. You are saying one can do both, and STILL not make it to heaven And one can have faith, and still not keep his commands, not me. I have never claimed that


I never said this either, I said if you don't do both you are not saved !!!



I have yet to hear one person say this, Thus you again are making a false accusation.

However, One can not obey until first god saves them, otherwise it is human good. A natural man can ONLY perform natural things (carnal) only a psiritual man (born of the spirit) can do spiritual things, (pruduce fruit from good deeds)

I am not making false accusations because I have seen some on here say just that, that you can disobey and not keep His commandments and still be saved.

 

[Mitspa]

I do that to E.G., but the main issue is the many and many of posts where I see some say we don't have to do this, or do that in which the Lord commanded.
To me that is a slap in the face to our Lord for somebody to say that, and shows no real love for Him by that individual.
I mean look at all He went through for us, just for them to sit back and say I know you commanded it but I still don't have to do it. You see how that shows no respect to Him for all He went through for us, to somebody just to turn around be disrespectful by saying they don't have to follow that command.

Why do we follow Gods Commandments in the New Covenant? Its not because we can be condemned, its because we have life in obedience ...The letter kills but the Spirit gives life...Legalism NEVER produces godliness. If we take the New Covenant and make it like unto the law and form it as unto legalism, we only bring death to believers. If we show the life that we have in the obedience of faith and show why we obey to walk in the life that has been freely given to us, we empower believers unto obedience. The Gospel is a complete change of the mindset upon obedience...

 

[kennethcadwell]

Where do you see this? I have asked so many times, yet you never show me, why if there are so many who say a child of God would not do those things, can I not find them?


What is shows is lack of repentance, which caused a lack of faith, which proves a lack of salvation.

so how do we twist a lack of salvation to say salvation has been lost?

How, for one the many threads about baptism ( in water ) on here where I have seen more than one person telling people they don't have to be baptized ( in water ), and that they have never been baptized and are not going to because it is not needed.
Lord Jesus commanded it, and to say it is not to be obeyed and done is a slap in the face for what He has done for us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How, for one the many threads about baptism ( in water ) on here where I have seen more than one person telling people they don't have to be baptized ( in water ), and that they have never been baptized and are not going to because it is not needed.

And again, I would ask you to show me how that person was ever saved to begin with? And a person who tells him that,Can you show me how they were ever saved to begin with?

Lord Jesus commanded it, and to say it is not to be obeyed and done is a slap in the face for what He has done for us.

Saying a person has faith in God and is saved even though he rejects Gods word is a slap in his face.

and saying he would save someone he KNOWS will not obey his word is an even bigger slap in his face,

and then saying he will take salvation away from someone he saved, even though he knew they would not obey enough to be saved, or turn away from him is an even BIGGER slap in his face, because it says he is not omniscient,

then finally, saying our obedience must be ADDED to the cross. if we are to be saved is a slap in the face of Christ, who suffered the penalty we deserve, so we could be saved.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Why do we follow Gods Commandments in the New Covenant? Its not because we can be condemned, its because we have life in obedience ...The letter kills but the Spirit gives life...Legalism NEVER produces godliness. If we take the New Covenant and make it like unto the law and form it as unto legalism, we only bring death to believers. If we show the life that we have in the obedience of faith and show why we obey to walk in the life that has been freely given to us, we empower believers unto obedience. The Gospel is a complete change of the mindset upon obedience...

This is true, but we are still to do these things out of love for Him.
To disobey and not do these things leads to spiritual death, there are many scriptures that show disobedience to not obey and follow His commands and teachings lead to eternal punishment and death.
We are to teach the hope that we have through our Lord for salvation, but we are also to teach the warnings as well. Paul made a point of doing this over and over again to believers. James epistle is one to believers of conviction, showing believers if these things that he said are apart of your life. You need to deal with them and work them out, and eliminate them from your walk.

 

[Mitspa]

The Royal law says that we love others as ourselves... If we hold others and preach to others a standard we cannot keep ourselves we are transgressors of the true Law of God... No one who teaches the law (10 Commandments and all) keeps the law...nor do they keep the Royal law... This is why the Lord told us to get the Log (hypocrisy) out of our own eye first, and then we can help others...

Anyone who claims to keep the Commandments of God is deceived ...unless they have learned to keep the royal law first.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is true, but we are still to do these things out of love for Him.

true, but how do we get to this point.

a child who obeys his father only for fear of punishment and banishment from his family (being unadopted as a child of God thus losing salvation), is not obeying out of love, he is obeying out of self preservation and fear.

a child who obeys out of love has a father who proves his love by loving him or her when they sin against him, lovingly chasten them, and proves they have his unconditional love. this child will do everything in his power to obey his parent, because he loves and respects his father (because his father PROVED his love to the child first)

Again, we love ONLY because he first loved us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Royal law says that we love others as ourselves... If we hold others and preach to others a standard we cannot keep ourselves we are transgressors of the true Law of God... No one who teaches the law (10 Commandments and all) keeps the law...nor do they keep the Royal law... This is why the Lord told us to get the Log (hypocrisy) out of our own eye first, and then we can help others...

Anyone who claims to keep the Commandments of God is deceived ...unless they have learned to keep the royal law first.

yes that is why he called the pharisees hypocrites.