Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[kennethcadwell]

Paul was the Apostle Chosen by God to reveal the truth of the gospel...this is all written...do I need to post scriptures? And the law is not broken into parts...all Gods laws are "moral" its every jot and tittle... Its the ministry of death written and engraved on stones... Now the morality we keep is the morality the Spirit of God that works in and through us.

Paul was chosen to be the main apostle to spread the gospel to the gentiles, the original 11 were commissioned to spread the gospel out to the rest of the Jews first. It is the same gospel on both accounts, no changes, additions, subtractions.
Yes the law is broken into parts, and if you don't see that you need to go back and restudy the meaning of law and how it is applied throughout the NT.
Whenever you see Jesus or Paul speaking of the laws to follow from the OT, they only refer to the 10 commandments.
When speaking of the rest of the mosaic laws that consisted of customs, rituals, sacrifices, and punishments. Jesus and Paul both show or say that we are not under them, have been blotted out, and done away with.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Even when Jesus is talking to the rich young ruler, He asks Him about the 10 commandments, and the young ruler said to Him that He has kept and obeyed all those commandments since birth. Jesus response to him was that if he still wants to be perfect and enter into heaven, he had to go and sale all he had and give to the poor. The rich young ruler disobeyed the Lord to go use what he had to help others that are in need, for he still cared about self rather then others.
The man believed in Jesus, but was still selfish and therefore not granted an inheritance in heaven because of that selfishness.
Jesus shows the same thing in Matthew 25, with the separation of the sheep from the goats.

 

[Mitspa]

iow, Peter understood salvation. it was something else brought out by Paul that Peter and others were chastised for.

clarifying: Jesus' teaching and revelation through Paul was foundational to the body of Christ and ekklesia knowledge of truth and discipline in the assembly.
I would in almost no way include though, the Bible, any part thereof, Torah/OT/NT/John/Peter/Paul
in the 'formation of the church and doctrine'.... RE: 'the church and doctrine' which developed after Paul was gone, that persecuted the Jewish and the gentile believers and all who sought Jesus and Jesus' Way of Life, and actively put them to death and did all they could to prevent 'little children' from finding the Kingdom.

Read please...
Ga 2:11 ¶ But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all

 

[elf3]

not referring to eternal life, but 'being saved' from other things ekklesia are saved from according to Scripture,
being immersed was an integral part of life for the ekklesia, both Jews and gentiles, it was well understood and practiced by all simply and 'correctly' until later the wolves tore the flock apart(after Paul left) and started instituting pagan practices then making them required.

Wrong ...did you read those three passages? Just from those 3 tell me how important baptism to salvation

 

[Mitspa]

Paul was chosen to be the main apostle to spread the gospel to the gentiles, the original 11 were commissioned to spread the gospel out to the rest of the Jews first. It is the same gospel on both accounts, no changes, additions, subtractions.
Yes the law is broken into parts, and if you don't see that you need to go back and restudy the meaning of law and how it is applied throughout the NT.
Whenever you see Jesus or Paul speaking of the laws to follow from the OT, they only refer to the 10 commandments.
When speaking of the rest of the mosaic laws that consisted of customs, rituals, sacrifices, and punishments. Jesus and Paul both show or say that we are not under them, have been blotted out, and done away with.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Even when Jesus is talking to the rich young ruler, He asks Him about the 10 commandments, and the young ruler said to Him that He has kept and obeyed all those commandments since birth. Jesus response to him was that if he still wants to be perfect and enter into heaven, he had to go and sale all he had and give to the poor. The rich young ruler disobeyed the Lord to go use what he had to help others that are in need, for he still cared about self rather then others.
The man believed in Jesus, but was still selfish and therefore not granted an inheritance in heaven because of that selfishness.
Jesus shows the same thing in Matthew 25, with the separation of the sheep from the goats.

I thought you was going to show me where the revelation in Romans 1 was in the gospels? I think everytime you lose a point you just make stuff up or change the topic? I beginning to wonder if about your place in the truth?

 

[Jabberjaw]

And I must add that baptism is not a command unto salvation or else Peter would have mentioned it not only Acts 2:38 but also in Acts 3:19 and Acts 10:43. But, oops Peter only mentions it once in three.

In Acts 2, Peter preached Jesus, in Acts 8 Philip preached Jesus starting with Isaiah :

Acts 8:32-33 (NKJV) [SUP]32 [/SUP] The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. [SUP]33 [/SUP] In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth."

This was the prophecy of Christ, Philip preached Jesus :

Acts 8:35 (NKJV) Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.

Preaching Jesus includes preaching water baptism, else why would the Eunuch know to say the following:

Acts 8:36 (NKJV) Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?"

Now did this Eunuch rejoice before or after he was water baptized?

Acts 8:39 (NKJV) Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

He rejoiced after he was water baptized, not after he believed.

Preaching Jesus (just like on Pentecost) is preaching water baptism.

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

sorry, you're picking , not listening. see the above and more- EVERY WORD, not just a few.

Wrong ...did you read those three passages? Just from those 3 tell me how important baptism to salvation

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ok lets start at Romans chapter 1 ...where is that in the Gospels?

Well lets see, to start with in verse 5 Paul says grace is establish through obedience in the faith.
Lord Jesus says if you love Me, you will keep My commandments. And those who believer in Him are hearers and doers of His word. ( obedience in the faith )

Verse 16 Paul says that he is not ashamed of the gospel of Christ that was delivered to the Jews first, and now through Him delivered to the gentiles. Not another gospel, the same one preached before he became an apostle.

Then Paul goes through the rest of this chapter saying how people denied the true love of God, and continued to do the same veil and unrighteous things they wanted to do.
Jesus says the same thing that not all who call Him Lord, Lord will be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven for they still deny to follow Him and follow after their own veil passions. Doing things for self.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Yes but it's not those commands by which we are saved or have remission of sin.

What you all are ignoring is the fact that it's faith in Christ that saves not a single darn bit of anything we do.

Baptism, good works, playing the flute, whatever will not save you. Only faith in Christ can lead to salvation or remission of sins.

Many people only go just so far with Christ, stopping off at various religious forms. There's a long list of religious things people do to appear to have Christ in them, or while self deceiving themselves while knowing they have an empty heart. But yes, that's the only way of salvation, faith in Jesus. That word "remission" is exclusively New Testament. It means deliverance from, forgiveness of, liberated, none of which was possible while a person was yet bound by the Law. Jesus' blood satisfies God eternally.

Faith in John the Baptist has no value. His job was to make the Christ known to Israel. As soon as he accomplished that at Jesus' baptism, some of his disciples that believed his message from God immediately followed Jesus. John passed the torch to Jesus, then soon was put in prison to be executed there. Jesus has fulfilled all that John preached, baptizing believers with the Holy Spirit.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I thought you was going to show me where the revelation in Romans 1 was in the gospels? I think everytime you lose a point you just make stuff up or change the topic? I beginning to wonder if about your place in the truth?

You need to learn to be patient, as I just posted an answer for that in post #467.

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

read so many times all my life, and before i asked the question : (i think you or someone else answered in another post after taht)

what does this alone and in context have to do with Peter's understanding of salvation. if Peter was here today, he would very likely ask Jesus if He could call down fire on earth ! (as many believers are doing,btw)
and Peter understood very thoroughly more than anyone here does.

Read please...
Ga 2:11 ¶ But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all

 

[elf3]

not referring to eternal life, but 'being saved' from other things ekklesia are saved from according to Scripture,
being immersed was an integral part of life for the ekklesia, both Jews and gentiles, it was well understood and practiced by all simply and 'correctly' until later the wolves tore the flock apart(after Paul left) and started instituting pagan practices then making them required.

In Acts 2, Peter preached Jesus, in Acts 8 Philip preached Jesus starting with Isaiah :

Acts 8:32-33 (NKJV) [SUP]32 [/SUP] The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. [SUP]33 [/SUP] In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth."

This was the prophecy of Christ, Philip preached Jesus :

Acts 8:35 (NKJV) Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.

Preaching Jesus includes preaching water baptism, else why would the Eunuch know to say the following:

Acts 8:36 (NKJV) Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?"

Now did this Eunuch rejoice before or after he was water baptized?

Acts 8:39 (NKJV) Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

He rejoiced after he was water baptized, not after he believed.

Preaching Jesus (just like on Pentecost) is preaching water baptism.

That's wonderful but not the passages I posted. I posted Acts 2:348 Acts 3:19 and Acts 10:43. Can you comment on those or try and dodge the bullet again?

 

[Mitspa]

Well lets see, to start with in verse 5 Paul says grace is establish through obedience in the faith.
Lord Jesus says if you love Me, you will keep My commandments. And those who believer in Him are hearers and doers of His word. ( obedience in the faith )

Verse 16 Paul says that he is not ashamed of the gospel of Christ that was delivered to the Jews first, and now through Him delivered to the gentiles. Not another gospel, the same one preached before he became an apostle.

Then Paul goes through the rest of this chapter saying how people denied the true love of God, and continued to do the same veil and unrighteous things they wanted to do.
Jesus says the same thing that not all who call Him Lord, Lord will be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven for they still deny to follow Him and follow after their own veil passions. Doing things for self.

So I think you see that what Paul wrote was not written in the gospel but we can see the same Spirit of truth at work...

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

you just don't get it, do you?

That's wonderful but not the passages I posted. I posted Acts 2:348 Acts 3:19 and Acts 10:43. Can you comment on those or try and dodge the bullet again?

 

[Mitspa]

read so many times all my life, and before i asked the question : (i think you or someone else answered in another post after taht)

what does this alone and in context have to do with Peter's understanding of salvation. if Peter was here today, he would very likely ask Jesus if He could call down fire on earth ! (as many believers are doing,btw)
and Peter understood very thoroughly more than anyone here does.

Yes I did answer..why would I answer again if you didn't bother to read my reply? Read it and then you will see the point why Paul and Peter was brought up as it relates to the issue of salvation and baptism.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

In Acts 2, Peter preached Jesus, in Acts 8 Philip preached Jesus starting with Isaiah :

Acts 8:32-33 (NKJV) [SUP]32 [/SUP] The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. [SUP]33 [/SUP] In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth."

This was the prophecy of Christ, Philip preached Jesus :

Acts 8:35 (NKJV) Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.

Preaching Jesus includes preaching water baptism, else why would the Eunuch know to say the following:

Acts 8:36 (NKJV) Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?"

Now did this Eunuch rejoice before or after he was water baptized?

Acts 8:39 (NKJV) Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

He rejoiced after he was water baptized, not after he believed.

Preaching Jesus (just like on Pentecost) is preaching water baptism.

Where is verse 37? It is needed for context. Acts 8:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

That's what saves.

 

[Mitspa]

Where is verse 37? It is needed for context. Acts 8:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

That's what saves.

LOl He didn't think that needed to be there... These guys have added stuff and changed words and now they are taking scriptures out...but they all claim to uphold "thou shalt not bear false witness" I think we can see how well those who make their boast in the law really do?

 

[Mitspa]

You need to learn to be patient, as I just posted an answer for that in post #467.

Ok Im going to be patient and get some sleep...I hope you guys don't get bitter at me but we do really disagree on certain things...forgive me when I get over zealous and forget to be patient anjd kind....God Bless all those who love Christ and know the Love of the Father...

 

[Jabberjaw]

That's wonderful but not the passages I posted. I posted Acts 2:348 Acts 3:19 and Acts 10:43. Can you comment on those or try and dodge the bullet again?

I addressed 2:38, Acts 3:19 used the word "converted", there are 8 conversions in the book of Acts, they all were water baptized including your Acts 10:43, you just need to read down a little further :

Acts 10:47-48 (NKJV) [SUP]47 [/SUP] "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" [SUP]48 [/SUP] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Why would Peter tell these to be water baptized if they were already baptized? because the Holy Spirit baptism is not the baptism of Eph 4:5, but water baptism is and is done by the disciples :

Matthew 28:19-20 (NKJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

Peter was commissioned to "baptize" in water.

 

[elf3]

sorry, you're picking , not listening. see the above and more- EVERY WORD, not just a few.

Yeah I'm sorry I'm just using three different study Bibles (KJV, NKJV, NIV) and I'm only using two commentaries and a systematic theology book to study this.

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

a thousand others noted in the last week, but i'll go ahead anyway :

even the demons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and when they tried to cry out the same, Jesus told them to shut up.
and the demons cannot be saved, they shudder in terror all the time.

Where is verse 37? It is needed for context. Acts 8:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. .....