Christmas
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and lying to a child... breaking a sacred bond, the one person in life a child should never have to worry about lying to them.... tells them santa is real, that can have negative impact on a child-parent relationship...
When they find out that Santa Clause is a lie and the Ishtar bunny is a lie then they think "maybe I ought to look into this Jesus Christ business also."
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
what amazes me is people who claim something is so evil, yet God blesses it and has brought many to himself because of it.
If God was so against it, how then can he use it to his own good? We did not see that in the OT now did we??
people need to get of their high horses, and trying to preach to the world how holy they are. and start to worry about what is really important, growing in Christ, and spreading the gospel of grace.
If God was so against it, how then can he use it to his own good? We did not see that in the OT now did we??
people need to get of their high horses, and trying to preach to the world how holy they are. and start to worry about what is really important, growing in Christ, and spreading the gospel of grace.
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didymos
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kaylagrl
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I have a Christmas tree in my house.I slap some decorations and lights on it.We all say "ohhhh pretty" and thats the end.I dont worship it,its not an idol.Its a dead tree that sits in my house for two weeks then is tossed out back for my dogs to pee on.
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kaylagrl
Guest
Many people go to church only twice a year,Christmas and Easter. Plays at both seasons are very important.You'd be amazed at how people hear the gospel through plays or music and get saved because it is less intimidating then preaching from the Bible.Many unsaved will come to see a family member in a play where they would not go sit under a preacher.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
They are like the jews, if there is ANY CHANCE someone may sin by doing something (like idoling a tree, which I am sure some do) then it should be considered off limits.
It was these man made laws Jesus personally broke while he walked the earth in order to get people to see how wrong the religious people were. And to mock the religious and hopefully get them to see the err of their ways.
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eternally-gratefull
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kaylagrl
Guest
and lying to a child... breaking a sacred bond, the one person in life a child should never have to worry about lying to them.... tells them santa is real, that can have negative impact on a child-parent relationship...
Christmas was always celebrated in our home and Easter.We never believed in either fairy tale,we were not taught it.Nothing wrong with Christmas in the right perspective.The days of the week are from pagan beliefs too yet everyone sit says Sunday,Monday....unless you are Jewish etc.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
so true, we follow a pagan calendar year. we eat meat as pagans, most everything we do can be traced to or follow some pagan tradition or law. Again unless your a jew.
But even Peter was chastened harshly and publically by paul, because peter refused to eat meat with some gentiles, because there were some jews present.
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kaylagrl
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Marian29
Guest
Pagan Origins
It's interesting to realise that December 25th (Christmas) in the Roman Empire and prior - was the day people celebrated the birthdays for these idols / demons / pagan gods:
Apollo, Attis, Bacchus, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Jupiter, Mithras, Perseus, Sol Invictus and Tammuz.
If you investigate the ancient religions - you find that almost all of them have origins with Nimrod. The bible doesn't say much about him - but mentions him (Genesis 10:8, 1 Chronicles 1:10, Micah 5:2).
Nimrod's birthday was also celebrated on December 25th by many. According to the ancient Babylonians, Semiramis (who was believed to be both Nimrods mother and wife - also known as Astarte, Asherah, Ashtoreth, Isis, Ishtar and Easter) made the claim that after Nimrod died, an evergreen tree sprang up overnight from a dead tree stump. Semiramis claimed that Nimrod visited the evergreen tree and left gifts each year on the anniversary of his birth (December 25th). These beliefs were in circulation well before Jesus entered the scene of human history. Does this sound familiar?
Jeremiah - one of Gods prophets, who lived between 600-500 BC wrote of these pagan rituals saying (Jeremiah 10);
Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.
For the first 300 years of Church history - Christmas didn't exist. No one celebrated Jesus birth. However, many believers (though not under obligation) did celebrate the festival / feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles).
It's almost unanimously agreed among scholars that Jesus was not born on December 25th. The bible describes how the sheep were in the fields (Luke 2) at the time of Jesus birth. This didn't happen in the middle of winter when it snows. Some have tried to calculate Jesus birth based on various details in scripture, alongside historical information and speculate that it's likely he was born during the feast of Tabernacles (which makes sense).
Speculating Jesus Birth Date
Elizabeth (John the Baptist's mother) was six months pregnant when Jesus was conceived (Luke:1:24-26). John's father - Zacharias was a priest serving in the division of Abijah in Jerusalem's temple (Luke:1:5). Based on the priestly division cycles - Zacharias service would have been around mid June in that year. After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (Luke:1:23-24). If John's conception took place towards the end of June, then we add nine months and it brings us to the end of March. If we add six months it brings us to the end of September.
We don't know for certain when Jesus was born - but we can arrive at an approximate time period. What we do know, is that it wasn't December 25th!
Charles Spurgeon's Thoughts On Christmas
Charles Spurgeon, the famous preacher from the 1800's said this about the observance of Christmas:
"We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Saviour; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Saviour's birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred. Fabricius gives a catalog of 136 different learned opinions upon the matter; and various divines invent weighty arguments for advocating a date in every month in the year. It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not till very long after the Western church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it. Because the day is not known, therefore superstition has fixed it; while, since the day of the death of our Saviour might be determined with much certainty, therefore superstition shifts the date of its observance every year. Where is the method in the madness of the superstitious? Probably the fact is that the holy days were arranged to fit in with heathen festivals. We venture to assert, that if there be any day in the year, of which we may be pretty sure that it was not the day on which the Savior was born, it is the twenty-fifth of December. Nevertheless since, the current of men's thoughts is led this way just now, and I see no evil in the current itself, I shall launch the bark of our discourse upon that stream, and make use of the fact, which I shall neither justify nor condemn, by endeavouring to lead your thoughts in the same direction. Since it is lawful, and even laudable, to meditate upon the incarnation of the Lord upon any day in the year, it cannot be in the power of other men's superstitions to render such a meditation improper for to-day. Regarding not the day, let us, nevertheless, give God thanks for the gift of his dear son."
Christ Mass
The Roman Catholic Mass (which is where the mass in Christmas comes from) itself is evil in the sense that it adds to the completed work of Christ on the cross! Mediation is made by a human priest between men and God, in contradiction to the clear teachings of the New Testament which tells us that there is one mediator between God and man the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us when we are born again, and that we need no man to mediate between us and Christ. We can come boldly before the throne of grace through the power of Gods Holy Spirit in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus to find mercy and grace in our time of need! God can hear our prayers! We don't need a ritual to get right with God. Additionally, I'd like to point out that there are many ancient pagan and occult symbols that have been adopted and re-branded within the Catholic tradition and Church (which we won't speak about now) as well as the merging of false deities that were renamed to saints - which to this day are prayed too within the Church. There are many problems with Catholicism - we'll leave those for another day. This article is about Christmas.
Santa Claus
As adults we can overlook the serious problems of Santa because they don't necessarily effect us directly. But what about our Children? Children are taught that he is a real man, who knows when they are naughty and nice, he knows when they are sleeping and awake. Does this characteristic sound familiar? God alone enjoys omniscience. This is a unique characteristic of God. Santa in one night travels the globe, stops time, and delivers gifts. He carries with him eternal like characteristics. Children write letters to Santa and communicate with this person they believe will answer their requests!
For a child - they genuinely believe in him. This is IDOLATRY! Not only do parents lie to their children, but they set up an idol for them to in a sense worship. There is no real difference between the relationship Santa has to a child, and the Hindu gods have to their worshipers. God tells us not to lie, yet many feel that Christmas is a time they will be overlooked, alongside Easter with the Easter bunny, or the Tooth Fairy.
Jesus didn't hide from controversy, but rejoiced in the truth, which is why I am going to say this... Santa Claus is demonic!
Christian Response
The big question is - should we remember and celebrate Jesus birth on December 25th? Well firstly - it's clear that we are under no obligation to celebrate Jesus birth! Likewise - we are under no obligation not too! But what shouldn't we do? We shouldn't practice paganism. Just as God wouldn't like us to practice Yoga (a form of Hinduism), or wear pentagrams and occult symbols around our necks, or participate in demonic rituals - he doesn't want us to join in with the evergreen ritual associated with Nimrod and Semiramis, or lie to our Children about Santa.
I don't believe there is anything wrong with giving gifts to people, having a meal, and remembering Jesus birth. But as we do it - let's not give any special reverence to the day itself, or to the pagan elements practiced by those around us (Christmas tree, Santa etc.)
'Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God, which thou shalt make thee." Deu. 16:21
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kaylagrl
Guest
What does planting a grove of trees have to do with putting a tree in your house for a couple weeks?
How much of God's plan did these days reveal to you?
Did you understand the sacrifice of Christ, putting sin out, the Holy Spirit and the early harvest, the return of Christ, the world becoming at one with God, the Millennium and the Last Great Day from these holidays?
The Feast Days reveal God's 7 day, seven thousand year plan.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
How much of the return of Christ (the trumpet plagues culminating in the Second Coming) then the world becoming at one with God, His 1000 year reign on the earth and then the plan for the billions who have never even heard the name Jesus Christ did xmas and Ishtar explain to you?
Come on guys, keep it up. We'll reach that "Christmas is pagan" thread quota yet.
Although I have to admit it's kind of disappointing that I haven't seen anything new in the last three Christmas is pagan threads. Just the same points that we see every year in each of these threads. It gets kind of old.
Do you really think you're going to change anybody's mind this time around? Or do you just like arguing with people so much that you can't tear yourself away?
Although I have to admit it's kind of disappointing that I haven't seen anything new in the last three Christmas is pagan threads. Just the same points that we see every year in each of these threads. It gets kind of old.
Do you really think you're going to change anybody's mind this time around? Or do you just like arguing with people so much that you can't tear yourself away?
It's called an intelligent discussion, at least the original post was and those that actually bothered to read it and reply in consideration of each point and educate others on the web about the topic. It's being constructive, if you can't be so or if you're not interested in the topic, there's no need write things like that.
and lying to a child... breaking a sacred bond, the one person in life a child should never have to worry about lying to them.... tells them santa is real, that can have negative impact on a child-parent relationship...
What amazes me is the Grinch worship around here.
The Grinch says, "lying is gooooood!"
I'm not interested in arguing pettily with anyone or responding to antagonistic who have nothing better to reply with and could do well with some education on the issue. I haven't seen the other threads this one was supposedly a repetition as so many seem to be upset over. I hope everyone who comes to this thread, members or otherwise on the web, learn something and are able to contribute constructively.