On a similar note... My wife and I enjoy watching "I Survived, Beyond and Back" (I think that's the name of the TV show) where people die, go into the after life then are brought back to life and tell their stories. In just about every case where the subject went to heaven, they saw family and friends all in perfect bodies, late 20s early 30s looking better than they ever had and their bodies were perfect in every way. So, clearly, they have their spiritual bodies now and get them immediately upon death. They do not need to ride back with Jesus to be transformed only to be turned around and go back to heaven to wait another 7 years or so.
When does the rapture occur?
- Thread starter Elin
- Start date
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Z
Elin-
Hello, the rapture is a heresy. It is a gross distortion of scripture that misinterprets and twists verses into false teachings. You may read more here. MYSTAGOGY: The Rapture – Indisputable Christian Heresy and The Rapture
Fortunately, you can just forget about the rapture and focus on more important Christian matters.
Hello, the rapture is a heresy. It is a gross distortion of scripture that misinterprets and twists verses into false teachings. You may read more here. MYSTAGOGY: The Rapture – Indisputable Christian Heresy and The Rapture
Fortunately, you can just forget about the rapture and focus on more important Christian matters.
The issue isn't about whether or not there is a "rapture" or catching up. Clearly there is. The issue is when. Does it happen before the Great Tribulation? Does it happen during? Does it happen after? Or does it happen after a 1,000 year period which many call the Millennium?
I think the evidence suggests it happens on the very last day the day of judgment.
I think the evidence suggests it happens on the very last day the day of judgment.
P
The corinthians were "carnal" but still saved.
Newborn babes are not "mature saints"
"13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
note ;"recieve a reward"
The word places the greater<>lesser dimension on those saved,not me or you.
The martyrs especially recieve a higher honor
And some sit on thrones,so no,it is not just a "saved<>not saved" format in heaven.
I suppose you are not aware of what "left behind" means???
LEFT, pret. and pp. of leave.
BEHIND, prep.
1. At the back of another; as, to ride behind a horseman.2. On the back part, at any distance; in the rear; as, to walk behind another.3. Remaining; left after the departure of another, whether by removing to a distance, or by death; as, a man leaves his servant behind him, or his estate at his decease.
Mat 25;10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
You are way way off if you can not read that for comprehension.The only way they were not left out,left behind,excluded or how ever you desire to say it is if Jesus is an out and out liar.
Lets see what Jesus says;
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
They asked through the door for Jesus to open(you know,the ones left behind),no door opens,they hear a voice through the door "no"
Judgement?..........No,not there,you added that out of thin air
Received punishment?......No,not there,you added that out of thin air
So,basically your assumptions are way,way off.
Newborn babes are not "mature saints"
"13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
note ;"recieve a reward"
The word places the greater<>lesser dimension on those saved,not me or you.
The martyrs especially recieve a higher honor
And some sit on thrones,so no,it is not just a "saved<>not saved" format in heaven.
I suppose you are not aware of what "left behind" means???
LEFT, pret. and pp. of leave.
BEHIND, prep.
1. At the back of another; as, to ride behind a horseman.2. On the back part, at any distance; in the rear; as, to walk behind another.3. Remaining; left after the departure of another, whether by removing to a distance, or by death; as, a man leaves his servant behind him, or his estate at his decease.
Mat 25;10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
You are way way off if you can not read that for comprehension.The only way they were not left out,left behind,excluded or how ever you desire to say it is if Jesus is an out and out liar.
Lets see what Jesus says;
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
They asked through the door for Jesus to open(you know,the ones left behind),no door opens,they hear a voice through the door "no"
Judgement?..........No,not there,you added that out of thin air
Received punishment?......No,not there,you added that out of thin air
So,basically your assumptions are way,way off.
P
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SHALL-BE-arpaghsomeqa
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shall-be-being-snatched-away
en
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G1722
Prep
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Websters;
[TABLE="class: display dataTable, width: 683"]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #E2E4FF"]
[TD]snatched[/TD]
[TD]SNATCH'ED, pp. Seized suddenly and violently.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
What a non issue.
harpagEsometha
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vi 2Fut Pas 1 Pl
SHALL-BE-arpaghsomeqa
harpagEsometha
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vi 2Fut Pas 1 Pl
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shall-be-being-snatched-away
en
en
G1722
Prep
I
Websters;
[TABLE="class: display dataTable, width: 683"]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #E2E4FF"]
[TD]snatched[/TD]
[TD]SNATCH'ED, pp. Seized suddenly and violently.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
What a non issue.
P
Uh,you have no verse,or even one suggesting postrib rapture.Zero
Are you aware of what you need to support your theory?
You need an example,somewhere,of a postrib/postjudgement deliverence,where those delivered return immediately to the spot of judgemment.
Postrib rapture is not in the word anywhere,by definiton,or inferrence
Are you aware of what you need to support your theory?
You need an example,somewhere,of a postrib/postjudgement deliverence,where those delivered return immediately to the spot of judgemment.
Postrib rapture is not in the word anywhere,by definiton,or inferrence
G
Revelation 20:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [SUP]2[/SUP] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [SUP]3[/SUP] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. [SUP]4[/SUP] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [SUP]5[/SUP] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6[/SUP] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[SUP]7[/SUP] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [SUP]8[/SUP] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9[/SUP] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. [SUP]10[/SUP] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. [SUP]11[/SUP] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [SUP]12[/SUP] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. [SUP]13[/SUP] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [SUP]14[/SUP] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [SUP]15[/SUP] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
( This color ... after the thousand years. )
"Yeah, that's just crazy! I wonder where they could possibly get that idea...???"
[SUP]1[/SUP] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [SUP]2[/SUP] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [SUP]3[/SUP] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. [SUP]4[/SUP] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [SUP]5[/SUP] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6[/SUP] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[SUP]7[/SUP] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [SUP]8[/SUP] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9[/SUP] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. [SUP]10[/SUP] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. [SUP]11[/SUP] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [SUP]12[/SUP] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. [SUP]13[/SUP] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [SUP]14[/SUP] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [SUP]15[/SUP] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
( This color ... after the thousand years. )
"Yeah, that's just crazy! I wonder where they could possibly get that idea...???"
1Thes 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Brother, what is the trump of God?
Correct me if I am wrong, you going to say the trump of God is a voice I am alpha and Omega?
After He said I am Alpha and Omega then
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Brother, what is the trump of God?
Correct me if I am wrong, you going to say the trump of God is a voice I am alpha and Omega?
After He said I am Alpha and Omega then
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
No post judgment deliverance is taught in Scripture.
Rather, the following Scriptures specifically locate the rapture with the judgment at the end of time
(as is shown here).
Ac 3:21, where there is no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming to restore all things at the end of time.
Heb 9:27-28, where Jesus comes only twice, once to atone and once to judge at the end of time, and not in between.
2Th 1:6-10, where the rapture is specifically located with Jesus coming to judge the world at the end of time.
Lk 17:29-37, where Jesus speaks of the rapture in the context of judgment at the end of time (Mt 24:37-41).
2Th 2:1-8, where the rapture does not occur until Jesus comes to destroy the man of lawlessness, which is at the end of time, as previously stated in 1:6-10.
2Pe 1:3, 5 where our coming salvation at the end of time will be given to us when Jesus is revealed,
and where there will there be no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming to restore all things at the end of time.
Ro 8:19-21, where the resurrection, rapture and liberation of creation from decay at the end of time all occur together.
The above Scriptures specifically locate the rapture at the end of time.
Rather, the following Scriptures specifically locate the rapture with the judgment at the end of time
(as is shown here).
Ac 3:21, where there is no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming to restore all things at the end of time.
Heb 9:27-28, where Jesus comes only twice, once to atone and once to judge at the end of time, and not in between.
2Th 1:6-10, where the rapture is specifically located with Jesus coming to judge the world at the end of time.
Lk 17:29-37, where Jesus speaks of the rapture in the context of judgment at the end of time (Mt 24:37-41).
2Th 2:1-8, where the rapture does not occur until Jesus comes to destroy the man of lawlessness, which is at the end of time, as previously stated in 1:6-10.
2Pe 1:3, 5 where our coming salvation at the end of time will be given to us when Jesus is revealed,
and where there will there be no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming to restore all things at the end of time.
Ro 8:19-21, where the resurrection, rapture and liberation of creation from decay at the end of time all occur together.
The above Scriptures specifically locate the rapture at the end of time.
Z
It is not a joke. The rapture is a heresy. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches the rapture. People who try to use 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as reference for it are ignorant of what that verse says. Also any idea of the rapture wasn't taught for sixteen centuries, let alone by Christ, the apostles or the first generation Christians. I suggest you read your Bible and find someone who doesn't teach heresy to instruct you in what the Bible says.