Christmas

Lynx · Dec 18, 2014

Lynx · Dec 18, 2014

I'm sorry, that last post of mine was a bit harsh. Perhaps you are new here and just missed all the other threads, and perhaps using Search never occurred to you. But now you see our frustration, right?

Karraster · Dec 18, 2014

I'm thankful for this thread, as it has caused me to study on things I might have missed.

Angela53510 · Dec 18, 2014

I am always blessed by Christmas. And yes, I know it is NOT the probable actual date of when Jesus was born. But any date will serve, regardless of the history of Christmas, not sure how much posted here is right or wrong. Because we have no idea what the early church did about celebrating the nativity.

I love that I go for walks in secular malls, and I hear music singing "Christ the Saviour is born." When I was a teacher, I used to sing all the traditional carols, put on a Christmas show, and then teach the children about the real meaning of Christmas. That is Jesus came to die for our sins. Many of those children had never heard the name of Jesus. With the older kids, I had them write about their Christmas. It was amazing how many kids went to temple (Sikh) and then came home and opened their presents under the Christmas tree. Of course, I shared the gospel with them, and never got a single complaint, even though it was a public, secular school

Today, I had the joy of buying presents for a young child on a reservation in South Dakota. He didn't have boots, clothes or toys, because his grandmother feeds all the children in their housing complex, rather than buy things for her grandchildren who he cares for.

Christmas is a time for giving and sharing the gospel. I will keep it for that reason alone!

Tintin · Dec 18, 2014

laura_charlotte said:
It's called an intelligent discussion, at least the original post was and those that actually bothered to read it and reply in consideration of each point and educate others on the web about the topic. It's being constructive, if you can't be so or if you're not interested in the topic, there's no need write things like that.

There's nothing intelligent about this discussion (for goodness sakes, the OP's main source of knowledge is "The Two Babylons" - Blargh!) Also, the Search function exists. Please, use it! That goes for everyone here.

Angela53510 · Dec 18, 2014

Here is a great corrective video for all you Hebrew Roots people.

[video=youtube;s0-EgjUhRqA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-EgjUhRqA[/video]

Reborn · Dec 18, 2014

Tintin said:
There's nothing intelligent about this discussion (for goodness sakes, the OP's main source of knowledge is "The Two Babylons" - Blargh!) Also, the Search function exists. Please, use it! That goes for everyone here.

Well, let's make it into a deep intelligent debate then?
You like red and green lights at Christmas time, I like white ones? Wrong!
Why? Because the ones I like are all sparkly, and Christmassy, and pretty and stuff....proven!

I'm right on this one Tintin.

psychomom · Dec 18, 2014

can we not place the focus on when Jesus was born?

i mean, can we just take a moment to be blown away by the fact
THAT GOD came here?

He came here to us who were His enemies...
He came to clean up the mess we made...
He came to seek and save us, the lost.

God Himself came here...descending One Way Love
in the Person of Jesus came here!

Happy Christmas!

Lynx · Dec 18, 2014

Reborn said:
Well, let's make it into a deep intelligent debate then?
You like red and green lights at Christmas time, I like white ones? Wrong!
Why? Because the ones I like are all sparkly, and Christmassy, and pretty and stuff....proven!
I'm right on this one Tintin.

I have to agree with him on this one Tintin. Red and green are not biblical. We are to be washed WHITE as snow. In Revelation God's hair was WHITE, and the horse he rode on was WHITE as well. So it makes sense that our christmas lights should be the same color.

Okay I'm done.

skipp · Dec 18, 2014

psychomom said:
can we not place the focus on when Jesus was born?

i mean, can we just take a moment to be blown away by the fact
THAT GOD came here?

He came here to us who were His enemies...
He came to clean up the mess we made...
He came to seek and save us, the lost.

God Himself came here...descending One Way Love
in the Person of Jesus came here!

Happy Christmas!

I like this post. Cuts to the point nicely.

skipp · Dec 18, 2014

Angela53510 said:
I am always blessed by Christmas. And yes, I know it is NOT the probable actual date of when Jesus was born. But any date will serve, regardless of the history of Christmas, not sure how much posted here is right or wrong. Because we have no idea what the early church did about celebrating the nativity.

I love that I go for walks in secular malls, and I hear music singing "Christ the Saviour is born." When I was a teacher, I used to sing all the traditional carols, put on a Christmas show, and then teach the children about the real meaning of Christmas. That is Jesus came to die for our sins. Many of those children had never heard the name of Jesus. With the older kids, I had them write about their Christmas. It was amazing how many kids went to temple (Sikh) and then came home and opened their presents under the Christmas tree. Of course, I shared the gospel with them, and never got a single complaint, even though it was a public, secular school.

As a current public school teacher I do the very same thing.

kaylagrl · Dec 18, 2014

john832 said:
How much of God's plan did these days reveal to you?

Did you understand the sacrifice of Christ, putting sin out, the Holy Spirit and the early harvest, the return of Christ, the world becoming at one with God, the Millennium and the Last Great Day from these holidays?

The Feast Days reveal God's 7 day, seven thousand year plan.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

How much of the return of Christ (the trumpet plagues culminating in the Second Coming) then the world becoming at one with God, His 1000 year reign on the earth and then the plan for the billions who have never even heard the name Jesus Christ did xmas and Ishtar explain to you?

Well dude I was four,so that was a little heavy to understand back then. But may parents taught me everything I needed as the years went by.Check out my link in the post above about why Christmas isnt pagan and let me know what you think.

Hizikyah · Dec 19, 2014

Hizikyah said:
For a follower of the Creator this is unacceptable;

"You must not worship Yahweh your Father in their way" Deuteronomy 12:29-32

Christmas is about gimme, gimme, gimme, for the vast majority of children. Materialisim, a quality the Messiah did not promote (Mt 6:19*), so how could this day be suitable for anything dealing with the Messiah. It not His birthday, it's against His principles, and it has pagan origins...

*Mt 6:19, "Do not store up treasures for yourselves upon earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal; For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

Hizikyah said:
gimme, gimme, gimme

Materialism and the Modern U.S. Christmas

Materialism and the Modern U.S. Christmas by Russell W. Belk

Interpretive Consumer Research, 1989 Pages 115-135
MATERIALISM AND THE MODERN U.S. CHRISTMAS
Russell W. Belk, University of Utah

How could a day focused on materialism represent the Messiah, who said;

"If you want to come to the perfection of Yahweh, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."

Mattithyah 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection of Yahweh, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."

Mt 6:19, "Do not store up treasures for yourselves upon earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal; For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

JesusistheChrist · Dec 19, 2014

john832 said:
Oh and you think that people don't treat xmas trees as idols?

They very well may, but that wasn't my point. The text in Jeremiah mentions such things as the idol's lack of breath (because it was the image of a "god", but lifeless), how it cannot speak (ditto) and how it needs to be borne or carried (IOW, it had feet, but, again, it was lifeless). As such, there's no justification for trying to pass it off as a Christmas tree because of the mention of it being decked with such things as silver and gold. According to similar texts, idols of false, lifeless gods were regularly overlaid with the same.

Yahshua · Dec 19, 2014

psychomom said:
can we not place the focus on when Jesus was born?

i mean, can we just take a moment to be blown away by the fact
THAT GOD came here?

He came here to us who were His enemies...but didn't he do this by challenging the error of our traditions?
He came to clean up the mess we made...but doesn't he do this by cleaning up the mess we've inherited?
He came to seek and save us, the lost...but how are we "lost" except through what we believe and don't believe?

God Himself came here...descending One Way Love
in the Person of Jesus came here! But wasn't it also show us how we send love the other way, back God and to our fellow man?

Happy Christmas!

Has his work ended? Isn't he still at work in us doing these same things above?

Believe me Psychomom,

All one can say is HalleluYah for the facts you've listed. None of us would be here if it weren't for God's love expressed in everything you've shared.

But I implore you (and anyone else who's reading this) that this same Christ; this same Love that God sent to us said that "God is a spirit and those who worship him must do so in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). Truth matters beloved sister...and not because I think it does (because who am I?) but solely because this same God - who you and I praise each day - who saw fit enough to come here and do all the things you've said, told us that the truth matters; that it's the truth that sets us free.

And when we are free family, we are indeed free; no longer slaves.

And that's what pains me when I read comments that mock or deride when new revelation is shared that challenges our old ways, or when posts like the one quoted below are published which (perhaps unknowingly) segregate groups of us as if we're not all one body. Prejudices of all kinds were often framed by the words "you...people".

Angela53510 said:
Here is a great corrective video for all you Hebrew Roots people.

Yes. Absolutely, God tells us to come as we are, for how could the world possibly be saved if we were all judged instead of him having mercy on us so we can come boldly to his throne of grace to ask for forgiveness? We are then snatch from the world, into his mighty hand...but then the education begins:

- You learn the truth of Christ and the world labels you "Irrational"...yet we press on, towards more truth as slowly revealed by God.

- You Learn a little more truth and you're labeled "Protestant"...yet we press on, towards more truth.

- You learn more truth and you're labeled "Adventists" or "Sabbitarian"...we press on.

- You learn even more and then you're labeled "Hebrew Roots" or "a cult" or "legalistic" or "a modern Pharisee"...all the while your focus is indeed on Christ and God and the truth in scripture as revealed by their Spirit.

..But how else does God effect the cleansing of the mess we're in, and the revealing of the enemies who would seek to maintain our bondage, and the salvation of we who are lost than to send to us - in the fullness of His time - messengers with yet more truth he's ready to reveal; people who say, "hey look what God has revealed to me about this. Confirm it for yourself but we had it wrong all this time"?

But then...we accuse them of raining on our parade.

Once we are forgiven, how else do we conform to the image of his perfect son except by He pruning those things from us which will not bear the fruit of Christ in the end? And that's the painful part, the pruning, because these things that are pruned were a part of us when we first started "growing" and now we have to give them up??

But truth doesn't take away anything from us except our errors, and then gives us so much more to replace what we lost...and what replaces those things is even less of a burden. Knowing when Christ was truly born doesn't take any of what you said away from us, but instead it gets us closer to God and to his son. I mean, isn't that the goal? For instance, if my timing is accurate sure Christ wasn't born in this month of December but yes I must also admit he was conceived of the Holy Spirit at this time; during the darkest time of the year the light of the world was conceived...so there is some justification for celebration. Truth is truth.

I can't speak for anyone else but personally I want to know everything I can possibly learn about the one who loved me enough to die...to die for me. For me. And then as uncomfortable as it is for me to change - just to emulate him as best as I can - I'm going to try to, simply because I love that man, my God and my new father. Because he died for me...for me.

- So you try to live in that revealed truth, but then you're labeled "self-righteous" when it's nothing but your adoration moving you to do such things.

- And when you try to share that truth with your new family (because it's your duty and because you love them enough to), you're labeled "judgmental", even though your not the one using all the labels.

Notwithstanding...scripture says everyone in their own order. Everyone's at their own unique leg of this race, and I'm faithful we'll all get there whenever we're each supposed to.

So Happy Holidays.

Hizikyah · Dec 19, 2014

Romans 2:4, “Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?"

Romans 2:4, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

Karraster · Dec 19, 2014

Yahshua said:
Believe me Psychomom,

All one can say is HalleluYah for the facts you've listed. None of us would be here if it weren't for God's love expressed in everything you've shared.

But I implore you (and anyone else who's reading this) that this same Christ; this same Love that God sent to us said that "God is a spirit and those who worship him must do so in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). Truth matters beloved sister...and not because I think it does (because who am I?) but solely because this same God - who you and I praise each day - who saw fit enough to come here and do all the things you've said, told us that the truth matters; that it's the truth that sets us free.

And when we are free family, we are indeed free; no longer slaves.

And that's what pains me when I read comments that mock or deride when new revelation is shared that challenges our old ways, or when posts like the one quoted below are published which (perhaps unknowingly) segregate groups of us as if we're not all one body. Prejudices of all kinds were often framed by the words "you...people".

Yes. Absolutely, God tells us to come as we are, for how could the world possibly be saved if we were all judged instead of him having mercy on us so we can come boldly to his throne of grace to ask for forgiveness? We are then snatch from the world, into his mighty hand...but then the education begins:

- You learn the truth of Christ and the world labels you "Irrational"...yet we press on, towards more truth as slowly revealed by God.

- You Learn a little more truth and you're labeled "Protestant"...yet we press on, towards more truth.

- You learn more truth and you're labeled "Adventists" or "Sabbitarian"...we press on.

- You learn even more and then you're labeled "Hebrew Roots" or "a cult" or "legalistic" or "a modern Pharisee"...all the while your focus is indeed on Christ and God and the truth in scripture as revealed by their Spirit.

..But how else does God effect the cleansing of the mess we're in, and the revealing of the enemies who would seek to maintain our bondage, and the salvation of we who are lost than to send to us - in the fullness of His time - messengers with yet more truth he's ready to reveal; people who say, "hey look what God has revealed to me about this. Confirm it for yourself but we had it wrong all this time"?

But then...we accuse them of raining on our parade.

Once we are forgiven, how else do we conform to the image of his perfect son except by He pruning those things from us which will not bear the fruit of Christ in the end? And that's the painful part, the pruning, because these things that are pruned were a part of us when we first started "growing" and now we have to give them up??

But truth doesn't take away anything from us except our errors, and then gives us so much more to replace what we lost...and what replaces those things is even less of a burden. Knowing when Christ was truly born doesn't take any of what you said away from us, but instead it gets us closer to God and to his son. I mean, isn't that the goal? For instance, if my timing is accurate sure Christ wasn't born in this month of December but yes I must also admit he was conceived of the Holy Spirit at this time; during the darkest time of the year the light of the world was conceived...so there is some justification for celebration. Truth is truth.

I can't speak for anyone else but personally I want to know everything I can possibly learn about the one who loved me enough to die...to die for me. For me. And then as uncomfortable as it is for me to change - just to emulate him as best as I can - I'm going to try to, simply because I love that man, my God and my new father. Because he died for me...for me.

- So you try to live in that revealed truth, but then you're labeled "self-righteous" when it's nothing but your adoration moving you to do such things.

- And when you try to share that truth with your new family (because it's your duty and because you love them enough to), you're labeled "judgmental", even though your not the one using all the labels.

Notwithstanding...scripture says everyone in their own order. Everyone's at their own unique leg of this race, and I'm faithful we'll all get there whenever we're each supposed to.

So Happy Holidays.

Thank you so much brother for these heartfelt and truthful words! Your humility, love and wisdom is so appreciated, and all who love truth with a passion can never be satisfied with a substitute. I praise our Father in Heaven! that He offers the gift of love for the truth, and love for Him, and there is no other thing in this world that brings such joy!

psychomom · Dec 19, 2014

Yahshua said:
Believe me Psychomom,

All one can say is HalleluYah for the facts you've listed. None of us would be here if it weren't for God's love expressed in everything you've shared.

But I implore you (and anyone else who's reading this) that this same Christ; this same Love that God sent to us said that "God is a spirit and those who worship him must do so in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). Truth matters beloved sister...and not because I think it does (because who am I?) but solely because this same God - who you and I praise each day - who saw fit enough to come here and do all the things you've said, told us that the truth matters; that it's the truth that sets us free.

And when we are free family, we are indeed free; no longer slaves.

And that's what pains me when I read comments that mock or deride when new revelation is shared that challenges our old ways, or when posts like the one quoted below are published which (perhaps unknowingly) segregate groups of us as if we're not all one body. Prejudices of all kinds were often framed by the words "you...people".

Yes. Absolutely, God tells us to come as we are, for how could the world possibly be saved if we were all judged instead of him having mercy on us so we can come boldly to his throne of grace to ask for forgiveness? We are then snatch from the world, into his mighty hand...but then the education begins:

- You learn the truth of Christ and the world labels you "Irrational"...yet we press on, towards more truth as slowly revealed by God.

- You Learn a little more truth and you're labeled "Protestant"...yet we press on, towards more truth.

- You learn more truth and you're labeled "Adventists" or "Sabbitarian"...we press on.

- You learn even more and then you're labeled "Hebrew Roots" or "a cult" or "legalistic" or "a modern Pharisee"...all the while your focus is indeed on Christ and God and the truth in scripture as revealed by their Spirit.

..But how else does God effect the cleansing of the mess we're in, and the revealing of the enemies who would seek to maintain our bondage, and the salvation of we who are lost than to send to us - in the fullness of His time - messengers with yet more truth he's ready to reveal; people who say, "hey look what God has revealed to me about this. Confirm it for yourself but we had it wrong all this time"?

But then...we accuse them of raining on our parade.

Once we are forgiven, how else do we conform to the image of his perfect son except by He pruning those things from us which will not bear the fruit of Christ in the end? And that's the painful part, the pruning, because these things that are pruned were a part of us when we first started "growing" and now we have to give them up??

But truth doesn't take away anything from us except our errors, and then gives us so much more to replace what we lost...and what replaces those things is even less of a burden. Knowing when Christ was truly born doesn't take any of what you said away from us, but instead it gets us closer to God and to his son. I mean, isn't that the goal? For instance, if my timing is accurate sure Christ wasn't born in this month of December but yes I must also admit he was conceived of the Holy Spirit at this time; during the darkest time of the year the light of the world was conceived...so there is some justification for celebration. Truth is truth.

I can't speak for anyone else but personally I want to know everything I can possibly learn about the one who loved me enough to die...to die for me. For me. And then as uncomfortable as it is for me to change - just to emulate him as best as I can - I'm going to try to, simply because I love that man, my God and my new father. Because he died for me...for me.

- So you try to live in that revealed truth, but then you're labeled "self-righteous" when it's nothing but your adoration moving you to do such things.

- And when you try to share that truth with your new family (because it's your duty and because you love them enough to), you're labeled "judgmental", even though your not the one using all the labels.

Notwithstanding...scripture says everyone in their own order. Everyone's at their own unique leg of this race, and I'm faithful we'll all get there whenever we're each supposed to.

So Happy Holidays.

hi there, Joshua. (do i have that right?...from your sig?)

i didn't intend to be demeaning...at all.

it's just that at this time of year, when many of us are in the midst of celebrating
the first advent of the Lord Jesus,
i think we forget to be completely amazed...totally blown away that God sent His Son to us.
you know what i mean?

in fact, i think that should astonish us and fill us with wonder and joy each and every day.

so, for those of us who do celebrate especially at this time of year...
and for those of us who don't...
God came!

it was a wholly single handed Rescue of His own.
and i agree with you, each of us is at a different place, and God will continue to faithfully grow us.

thanks for the thoughtful reply.

-ellie

ps--i don't know about you, but i not only inherited the mess...i've made one, too.
and by 'lost', i mean in tresspasses and sins.
does that make sense? ♥

laura_charlotte · Dec 22, 2014

Tintin said:
There's nothing intelligent about this discussion (for goodness sakes, the OP's main source of knowledge is "The Two Babylons" - Blargh!) Also, the Search function exists. Please, use it! That goes for everyone here.

Actually there's a lot enlightening about my original post, those who have bothered to read and comprehend it in full and follow up with a constructive response. The other responses which i find less than intelligent are what i was referring too and are best ignored. The 'search' function does exist but that has absolutely nothing to do with what i wrote or why i posted it. There are various topics with the same heading, and just clicking 'search' wasn't going to do anything for me or for others who actually wanted an in depth and constructive discussion of the topic which for the most part throughout my post from constructive responses is what has been provided.

laura_charlotte · Dec 22, 2014

Lynx said:
I'm sorry, that last post of mine was a bit harsh. Perhaps you are new here and just missed all the other threads, and perhaps using Search never occurred to you. But now you see our frustration, right?

No i'm not new here and even if i was, that's beside the point. "perhaps using the search button never occurred to you" did it ever occur to you that i don't think for a second that all threads with the same title have the same information in them? I clicked the first link you provided and it's a person asking one single question - that's fine for them - but i have something different to add to the discussion about Christmas. Just 'using the search button' doesn't cut it at all. Those threads are different from each other and certainly distinct from mine.

Take that frustration that you and others feel and think with this perspective: there are children sick and dying in the world, there are homeless people and the enemy is rife in the world - direct your 'frustrations' towards helping a cause, rather than getting upset by my post which sought to enlighten and educate others on a major issue in Christianity, members and non members alike. From the feedback i have received in this thread and aside, I've got no regrets and have achieved this.

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