When does the rapture occur?

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Rapture is a man made term to describe (usually) being caught up to meet the Lord. Remember the rich man who had stored up for his future (Luke 12:20)? God said his life would be demanded that very night. Point being, that heart attack, that car crash, that your-ticket-is-punched moment is your rapture baby. And it could come right now. Be ready!
On a similar note... My wife and I enjoy watching "I Survived, Beyond and Back" (I think that's the name of the TV show) where people die, go into the after life then are brought back to life and tell their stories. In just about every case where the subject went to heaven, they saw family and friends all in perfect bodies, late 20s early 30s looking better than they ever had and their bodies were perfect in every way. So, clearly, they have their spiritual bodies now and get them immediately upon death. They do not need to ride back with Jesus to be transformed only to be turned around and go back to heaven to wait another 7 years or so.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Rapture is a man made term to describe (usually) being caught up to meet the Lord. Remember the rich man who had stored up for his future (Luke 12:20)? God said his life would be demanded that very night. Point being, that heart attack, that car crash, that your-ticket-is-punched moment is your rapture baby. And it could come right now. Be ready!
Actually, "rapture" is the translation of the Greek harpazo, which is "to snatch or catch away."

The Greek Bible was first translated into Latin, where harpazo was translated rapio.

When the Latin Bible was translated into English,
rapio was translated rapture.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Actually, "rapture" is the translation of the Greek harpazo, which is "to snatch or catch away."

The Greek Bible was first translated into Latin, where harpazo was translated rapio.

When the Latin Bible was translated into English,
rapio was translated rapture.
But then again, the word, "rapture" does not exist in either the KJV or NKJV.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Actually, "rapture" is the translation of the Greek harpazo, which is "to snatch or catch away."

The Greek Bible was first translated into Latin, where harpazo was translated rapio.

When the Latin Bible was translated into English,
rapio was translated rapture.
Elin-

Hello, the rapture is a heresy. It is a gross distortion of scripture that misinterprets and twists verses into false teachings.
You may read more here. MYSTAGOGY: The Rapture – Indisputable Christian Heresy and The Rapture
Thanks, zifnab, but all I need is Scripture.

And in 1Th 4:17, we have the harpazo, the "catching up" in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air,
which is what is meant by the rapture, as explained in my post above.

Fortunately, you can just forget about the rapture and focus on more important Christian matters.
But I don't want to forget about anything revealed in the Scriptures.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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The issue isn't about whether or not there is a "rapture" or catching up. Clearly there is. The issue is when. Does it happen before the Great Tribulation? Does it happen during? Does it happen after? Or does it happen after a 1,000 year period which many call the Millennium?

I think the evidence suggests it happens on the very last day the day of judgment.
 
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popeye

Guest
Saved is saved. There's no levels of that.

The foolish virgins were not left behind, but were judged and received punishment/reward for their works (or lack thereof).

Rather than get long-winded here, try this http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/249-5-how-will-we-judged.html
The corinthians were "carnal" but still saved.
Newborn babes are not "mature saints"
"13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
note ;"recieve a reward"
The word places the greater<>lesser dimension on those saved,not me or you.
The martyrs especially recieve a higher honor
And some sit on thrones,so no,it is not just a "saved<>not saved" format in heaven.


The foolish virgins were not left behind
I suppose you are not aware of what "left behind" means???
LEFT, pret. and pp. of leave.
BEHIND, prep.
1. At the back of another; as, to ride behind a horseman.2. On the back part, at any distance; in the rear; as, to walk behind another.3. Remaining; left after the departure of another, whether by removing to a distance, or by death; as, a man leaves his servant behind him, or his estate at his decease.

Mat 25;
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

You are way way off if you can not read that for comprehension.The only way they were not left out,left behind,excluded or how ever you desire to say it is if Jesus is an out and out liar.

The foolish virgins were not left behind, but were judged and received punishment/reward for their works (or lack thereof).
Lets see what Jesus says;
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

They asked through the door for Jesus to open(you know,the ones left behind),no door opens,they hear a voice through the door "no"
Judgement?..........No,not there,you added that out of thin air
Received punishment?......No,not there,you added that out of thin air

So,basically your assumptions are way,way off.
 
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popeye

Guest
But then again, the word, "rapture" does not exist in either the KJV or NKJV.
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SHALL-BE-arpaghsomeqa
harpagEsometha
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vi 2Fut Pas 1 Pl
SHALL-BE-BEING-SNATCHED
shall-be-being-snatched-away
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Websters;
[TABLE="class: display dataTable, width: 683"]
[TR="class: odd, bgcolor: #E2E4FF"]
[TD]snatched[/TD]
[TD]SNATCH'ED, pp. Seized suddenly and violently.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


What a non issue.
 
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popeye

Guest
The issue isn't about whether or not there is a "rapture" or catching up. Clearly there is. The issue is when. Does it happen before the Great Tribulation? Does it happen during? Does it happen after? Or does it happen after a 1,000 year period which many call the Millennium?

I think the evidence suggests it happens on the very last day the day of judgment.
I think the evidence suggests it happens on the very last day the day of judgment.

Ok,this is where supposition leads.
I happen to know the root of this reckless inrterpretation. It's roots are in the mis-application of the 1st resurrection.
Postribs believe(incredably) that rev 20 is the "1st resurrection". They build an entire doctrine off this
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
402
11
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It's pretty simple...
1Th 4:16 For Yahushua himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of YHWH: and the dead in the Messiah shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Master in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Master.
 
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popeye

Guest
Elin-

Hello, the rapture is a heresy. It is a gross distortion of scripture that misinterprets and twists verses into false teachings. You may read more here. MYSTAGOGY: The Rapture – Indisputable Christian Heresy and The Rapture

Fortunately, you can just forget about the rapture and focus on more important Christian matters.
Read the hole thing.
It is a joke.Anyone,even a babe in Christ could see through the festval of lies in the article.Reckless,slanderous lies
You have nothing,nothing to refute the scriptures.
Just enter one sentance from your teachers reckless article.Try and find one that is true.
 
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popeye

Guest
On a similar note... My wife and I enjoy watching "I Survived, Beyond and Back" (I think that's the name of the TV show) where people die, go into the after life then are brought back to life and tell their stories. In just about every case where the subject went to heaven, they saw family and friends all in perfect bodies, late 20s early 30s looking better than they ever had and their bodies were perfect in every way. So, clearly, they have their spiritual bodies now and get them immediately upon death. They do not need to ride back with Jesus to be transformed only to be turned around and go back to heaven to wait another 7 years or so.
The rich man,Lazarus,and Abraham were all seen with bodies. all were dead. You have no point
 
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popeye

Guest
This False Pre-Trib Rapture event (which, by the way, none of the key tenants are taught and cannot be found anywhere in the Bible) is not based on one's belief in it. Salvation has nothing to do with one's end times views yet you seem to think it does. You seem to think one must believe as you to be raptured. Do you have a verse for this? Of course not. You make things up as you go to suit your imagination. Instead of taking the clear meaning of verses you twist them taking most improbable meanings because you have to or your doctrine collapses.

Christ doesn't think He will find much faith left when He returns because He won't. This statement from Luke (in your mind is Post Trib - after the Rapture) because you see wrath there. You are correct, but the statement makes no sense if Christ had come back 7 years or so earlier and took all with faith off the earth. However, this statement makes perfect sense if there is one return of Christ after the Tribulation. If the Tribulation is Satan's slaughtering and deception of believers (as I believe) and there is a huge apostasy (as Paul teaches) with many more killed or converted, than Christ statement makes perfect sense.

There is a reason both Paul and John repeatedly tell us to have PATIENCE and FAITH. Christ Himself tells us this too. It is because we are not to go out after the first mega powerful super being who comes claiming to be Christ and acting as Christ. We are to wait, have patience and keep our faith. Because the first such being who comes will be Satan. Satan CANNOT deceive people if the real Christ had come first. That's just common sense. What's Satan going to do tell everyone, "Hey I'm back. Now that I've taken all my believers to heaven here I am now worship me"? Wouldn't those on earth following a so-called removal of the church wonder where are all the saints on white horses that are supposed to accompany Christ? Shouldn't Christ be killing the bad guys not standing with them?

Revelation 14:12

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

This is why we are told to wait, to have patience and faith. To persevere.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Because you have kept My command to persevere...

We are told to NOT GO OUT when the False One comes.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Christ makes clear His ELECT are here on earth and...

[SUP]26 [/SUP]“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

DO NOT BELIEVE IT. DO NOT GO OUT!!!
Why would Christ warn His Believers on earth about this deception to come if He already had taken them???? Satan isn't coming to deceive some so-call Tribulation Era New Believers (Another concept which is not found anywhere) He comes to deceive actual believers. Paul teaches that our gathering to Him comes after the Man of Sin appears, just as Christ does.

Look Straightshot, I know you will never see the error of your thinking. Believe me, for years I once thought as you. It took me many years of study and prayer to see that the Rapture Doctrine is wrong and to understand how it came to being and who was behind it. The delusion is so strong (Paul tells us) that nothing I say can break it for you. You need to really put away your pride and take the matter to the Lord in sincere prayer and ask Him to open your eyes to the truth.

If God wanted us to believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture He would have told us about it plainly. A verse such as this would be found.

"Before the Tribulation I will return to gather my church to take them to heaven."
A verse like that would be clear but none is found.
"Before the Tribulation I will return to gather my church to take them to heaven." A verse like that would be clear but none is found.
Uh,you have no verse,or even one suggesting postrib rapture.Zero

Are you aware of what you need to support your theory?
You need an example,somewhere,of a postrib/postjudgement deliverence,where those delivered return immediately to the spot of judgemment.
Postrib rapture is not in the word anywhere,by definiton,or inferrence
 
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popeye

Guest
So which trump is this bellow?
1Thes 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Whaat is the trumpet of God?


Is it this?
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:
 
G

GaryA

Guest
Postribs believe(incredably) that rev 20 is the "1st resurrection".
Revelation 20:

[SUP]1[/SUP] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [SUP]2[/SUP] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [SUP]3[/SUP] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. [SUP]4[/SUP] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [SUP]5[/SUP] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6[/SUP] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[SUP]7[/SUP] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [SUP]8[/SUP] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9[/SUP] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. [SUP]10[/SUP] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. [SUP]11[/SUP] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [SUP]12[/SUP] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. [SUP]13[/SUP] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [SUP]14[/SUP] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [SUP]15[/SUP] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

( This color ... after the thousand years. )


"Yeah, that's just crazy! I wonder where they could possibly get that idea...???" :p

:)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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Whaat is the trumpet of God?


Is it this?
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:
1Thes 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Brother, what is the trump of God?

Correct me if I am wrong, you going to say the trump of God is a voice I am alpha and Omega?

After He said I am Alpha and Omega then

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Uh,you have no verse,or even one suggesting postrib rapture.Zero

Are you aware of what you need to support your theory?
You need an example, somewhere, of a postrib/postjudgement deliverence,
where those delivered return immediately to the spot of judgemment
.
No post judgment deliverance is taught in Scripture.

Rather, the following Scriptures specifically locate the rapture with the judgment at the end of time
(as is shown here).

Ac 3:21, where there is no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming to restore all things at the end of time.

Heb 9:27-28
, where Jesus comes only twice, once to atone and once to judge at the end of time, and not in between.

2Th 1:6-10
, where the rapture is specifically located with Jesus coming to judge the world at the end of time.

Lk 17:29-37
, where Jesus speaks of the rapture in the context of judgment at the end of time (Mt 24:37-41).

2Th 2:1-8
, where the rapture does not occur until Jesus comes to destroy the man of lawlessness, which is at the end of time, as previously stated in 1:6-10.

2Pe 1:3, 5
where our coming salvation at the end of time will be given to us when Jesus is revealed,
and where there will there be no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming to restore all things at the end of time.

Ro 8:19-21
, where the resurrection, rapture and liberation of creation from decay at the end of time all occur together.

The above Scriptures specifically locate the rapture at the end of time.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Ok,this is where supposition leads.
I happen to know the root of this reckless inrterpretation. It's roots are in the mis-application of the 1st resurrection.
Postribs believe(incredably) that rev 20 is the "1st resurrection". They build an entire doctrine off this
The first resurrection is of our spirits in the rebirth from eternal death to eternal life.

The second resurrection is of our physical spiritual bodies from physical death to physical life.
 
Z

Zifnab21

Guest
Read the hole thing.
It is a joke.Anyone,even a babe in Christ could see through the festval of lies in the article.Reckless,slanderous lies
You have nothing,nothing to refute the scriptures.
Just enter one sentance from your teachers reckless article.Try and find one that is true.
It is not a joke. The rapture is a heresy. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches the rapture. People who try to use 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as reference for it are ignorant of what that verse says. Also any idea of the rapture wasn't taught for sixteen centuries, let alone by Christ, the apostles or the first generation Christians. I suggest you read your Bible and find someone who doesn't teach heresy to instruct you in what the Bible says.