Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[Kerry]

Same thing different thread. I wish y'll would search through the threads before posting a new. It would cut out a lot of redundancy.

Okay, which of the twelve doe's the bible say were baptized? John (the Baptist) said I do indeed baptize with water, but there comes one after me whose shoes I am unworthy to touch, will baptize you in Spirit and fire.

When was the thief on the cross baptized?

Revelations They overcame by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony and getting their head dunked in water.

Do you tote a bucket of water to the hospital to pray for a dying Patient?

If a man accepts Christ and the baptismal service is three weeks away and he get's hit by a bus and dies, is he saved?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Where is the water?

Are OT saint's saved?

Why did Jesus get baptized in water when He had committed no sin?

and the list goes on and on and on.

 

[elf3]

Same thing different thread. I wish y'll would search through the threads before posting a new. It would cut out a lot of redundancy.

Okay, which of the twelve doe's the bible say were baptized? John (the Baptist) said I do indeed baptize with water, but there comes one after me whose shoes I am unworthy to touch, will baptize you in Spirit and fire.

When was the thief on the cross baptized?

Revelations They overcame by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony and getting their head dunked in water.

Do you tote a bucket of water to the hospital to pray for a dying Patient?

If a man accepts Christ and the baptismal service is three weeks away and he get's hit by a bus and dies, is he saved?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Where is the water?

Are OT saint's saved?

Why did Jesus get baptized in water when He had committed no sin?

and the list goes on and on and on.

Well Kerry becca (who started the forum) is pretty new here and obviously did not know what would happen. So it was just a question she had, which is actually a good question, but didn't realize the "TNT" of that question. So can't really blame her.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

You don't know your Greek, βαπτισθήτω is of the Aorist Imperative, it is a command, it is passive (actually middle) and third person for a reason, Peter is telling "all of them" to "repent", (second person plural) and submit to baptism by baptizing each other (hence third person singular) "ἕκαστος every one of you" (singular)

and IF THEY ALL DO, they "shall receive the gift" (future, Middle Deponent, Indicative, second person plural)

You've missed the whole point of water baptism. See post 758. I notice none are taking up that challenge.

John started water baptism for the purpose of ushering in Jesus the Christ. Surely he knew his cousin Jesus, but didn't know he would be the Christ. He said his mission was to make the Chirst manifest, revealed, to Israel.

Now why would Jesus have to water baptize by way of John's water baptism to make himself manifest to Israel? He already was introduced. When Peter realized by inspiration from God that Jesus was in fact the one John the Baptist prophesied would come, Jesus told him to tell no man about that revelation.

So apparently some have it that Jesus took up John's mission prophesying of the coming Christ?

John preached that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit, not water. Mark 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

This ought to settle the issue. Seeing no reasonable response to it, the debate is concluded.

Water baptism was a token, a religious tradition now, of recognizing that belief and repentance would be
the terms of the coming Christ to save souls and fill with the Holy Spirit.

As a former Baptist I know the real reason Christians object is because of the biblical testimonies of John's disciples receiving the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues. "OH MY GOD. WS dares to speak of a delusion from Satan! Tongues passed away, ya know." That's what they tell me in hopes we will return.

Well, not for those that have believed in the fulfillment of the prophesy of John the Baptist by Jesus, and did like his disciples to follow Jesus and HIS Holy Spirit baptism, which John spoke of to come. Until the Holy Spirit was given by Jesus, there remained but one current baptism in Jesus' ministry, that of baptism in His Name. Upon His resurrection the whole of baptism in Christ was commanded by Jesus to "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: "Matthew 28:19 (KJV)

That was the ultimate baptism for believers then and today. NOT in John's name, or Paul's name, or any other but those three. Teaching the gospel immerses hearers that receive the words believing and confessing it from the heart into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit altogether.

John's was but an early sign of all that.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Debate is concluded on this issue due to absence of response. That's a major rule of debate. It is settled.
Praise the Lord!

I agree, it would be better to avoid starting another debate on this issue. Enough has been presented already.

 

[Mitspa]

Debate is concluded on this issue due to absence of response. That's a major rule of debate. It is settled.
Praise the Lord!

I agree, it would be better to avoid starting another debate on this issue. Enough has been presented already.

Ok im with you....

 

[Utah]

Wow... I just happened to look down at the bottom of this page and it reads:
There are currently 18 users browsing this thread. (5 members and 13 guests)

It made me cry because I wondered how many of those guests are searching for Jesus Christ. I wonder if any were turned away because of the spiritual division in here with all the name calling and judging one another. I wonder if any of those guests see the Spirit of God in here at all.

Ya know, Jesus Christ IS the Living Word. I don't believe any of the disciples or any of Jesus' followers carried a Bible around with them to search out Scriptures to support their belief in the Lord. In fact, most of them were too busy running to their families and neighbors in great joy to tell what Jesus had done for them. And many were being persecuted and dragged to their deaths because it was obvious they were associated with Jesus Christ. I don't think one of them was found with a Bible in their hands. But every single one of them had the Holy Spirit of God in them revealing Jesus Christ. The Word was alive in them!

I am sorry if I came across as offensive to anyone in here. I genuinely desire that the Lord Jesus would be glorified in us and nothing else. I don't want to be right, I want God to reveal His righteousness. I pray in the name of Jesus that God would have His way and give us His wisdom regarding unity in His Spirit.

Be of good cheer, my sister. Most guests are actually members who are browsing this site, but did not log in, and that shows up as being a guest. For those who are in fact guests, keep them lifted.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, they are not essential to receiving the new birth with eternal life.

Faith/belief/trust in the Savior are over & over the only requirement on man for his salvation. Language like whosoever believes, anyone/everyone who believes, rules out any essential addition.



You do not quote scripture, and your supposed scripture does not say "salvation."

Works like confessing to men, are not only not required but forbidden as grounds of salvation.



Unscriptural interpretation.
The word salvation is absent from your allusion.

Thou shalt call his name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

One of the means of salvation done by the Lord is chastisement. To avoid chastisement, forgive others of their sins.

The only grounds of forgiveness is the death of the Lord Jesus; He paid for all our sins.

Not confession and forgiveness are not essential for salvation ????
Then you deny what Jesus said, for He said if you don't confess Him before others He will not confess you. And He also said if you do not forgive others of their sins, you will not be forgiven of yours.
If you deny Him ( unbelief ), and don't have forgiveness of sins ( enmity to God still ) you do not get salvation.....

 

[kennethcadwell]

If you take your own information you will see or not that we are to submerge them like a sunken ship in the doctrine of Christ. If we submerge them in water as you imply like a sunken ship we have a problem.

Thanks for trying. I stand amazed that you can cite correct information and still err in your doctrine. Truly amazing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

There is no problem unless you don't understand the full context in how baptizo was used in both Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16. We are baptized into Christ yes, but that is done by being immersed in water into His death and resurrection into a new creation to walk in the light as Paul stated in Romans 6 and Peter continued to say from Acts to his epistles.
Once again I will ask if water was omitted from the baptism process; Why did the apostles continue to use it ?

Lord Jesus would have told them to stop if no longer needed to be done....................

 

[Jabberjaw]

You've missed the whole point of water baptism. See post 758. I notice none are taking up that challenge.

John started water baptism for the purpose of ushering in Jesus the Christ. Surely he knew his cousin Jesus, but didn't know he would be the Christ. He said his mission was to make the Chirst manifest, revealed, to Israel.

Now why would Jesus have to water baptize by way of John's water baptism to make himself manifest to Israel? He already was introduced. When Peter realized by inspiration from God that Jesus was in fact the one John the Baptist prophesied would come, Jesus told him to tell no man about that revelation.

So apparently some have it that Jesus took up John's mission prophesying of the coming Christ?

John preached that Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit, not water. Mark 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

This ought to settle the issue. Seeing no reasonable response to it, the debate is concluded.

John indeed said Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit in Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, and Matt 3:11, Jesus is the ONLY one who can baptize with the Holy Spirit (and fire)... His disciples are the ones who continue to baptize with water (the only baptism a disciple can administer), this is affirmed in His commission:

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus told the disciples to baptize, Jesus did not say "I will baptize".

And more than likely why Jesus while on this earth never baptized anyone with water, but his disciples:

John 4:1-2 (NKJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John [SUP]2 [/SUP] (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

Water baptism was a token, a religious tradition now, of recognizing that belief and repentance would be
the terms of the coming Christ to save souls and fill with the Holy Spirit.

As a former Baptist I know the real reason Christians object is because of the biblical testimonies of John's disciples receiving the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues. "OH MY GOD. WS dares to speak of a delusion from Satan! Tongues passed away, ya know." That's what they tell me in hopes we will return.

Well, not for those that have believed in the fulfillment of the prophesy of John the Baptist by Jesus, and did like his disciples to follow Jesus and HIS Holy Spirit baptism, which John spoke of to come. Until the Holy Spirit was given by Jesus, there remained but one current baptism in Jesus' ministry, that of baptism in His Name. Upon His resurrection the whole of baptism in Christ was commanded by Jesus to

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"Matthew 28:19 (KJV)

That was the ultimate baptism for believers then and today. NOT in John's name, or Paul's name, or any other but those three. Teaching the gospel immerses hearers that receive the words believing and confessing it from the heart into the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit altogether.

John's was but an early sign of all that.

There is one saving baptism, Eph. 4:5 "one Lord, one faith, one baptism;" so then Peter in Acts 10:47-48 would be preaching another gospel administering a second baptism since the Lord had already baptized Cornelius in Acts 10:44-45.

Peter commanded the water baptism because it is the saving baptism of Eph. 4:5 and the one administered in Acts 2:38

 

[Jabberjaw]

Debate is concluded on this issue due to absence of response. That's a major rule of debate. It is settled.
Praise the Lord!

I agree, it would be better to avoid starting another debate on this issue. Enough has been presented already.

You need to bring yourself down a notch, you got my response, I will not be responding again for a while, I have other things to do

 

[Dan58]

Baptism is the outward demonstration of a persons choice to live for spiritual things instead of the flesh world. Its the commencement of a new beginning, being washed of sin and born of living waters. I don't think a ticket to heaven is reliant on whether a person was baptized though, simply because the malefactor crucified with Christ wasn't denied salvation for not being baptized after he requested that Jesus remember him. But I do think that after every Christian has made their choice for Christ, the next step is baptism. jmo

 

[AVoice]

Baptism is the outward demonstration of a persons choice to live for spiritual things instead of the flesh world. Its the commencement of a new beginning, being washed of sin and born of living waters. I don't think a ticket to heaven is reliant on whether a person was baptized though, simply because the malefactor crucified with Christ wasn't denied salvation for not being baptized after he requested that Jesus remember him. But I do think that after every Christian has made their choice for Christ, the next step is baptism. jmo

Baptism is obedience to Christ's commandment. A requirement to be saved as Peter identified. Baptism is right alongside faith and repentance. If baptism can be taken away as a requirement then so can repentance.

 

[notuptome]

There is no problem unless you don't understand the full context in how baptizo was used in both Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16. We are baptized into Christ yes, but that is done by being immersed in water into His death and resurrection into a new creation to walk in the light as Paul stated in Romans 6 and Peter continued to say from Acts to his epistles.
Once again I will ask if water was omitted from the baptism process; Why did the apostles continue to use it ?

Lord Jesus would have told them to stop if no longer needed to be done....................

The problem is that you will not accept Gods grace as wholly sufficient to save. Until and unless you allow God to save you, you will not be saved.

Why did the apostles baptize with water one simple reason tradition.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

John indeed said Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit in Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, and Matt 3:11, Jesus is the ONLY one who can baptize with the Holy Spirit (and fire)... His disciples are the ones who continue to baptize with water (the only baptism a disciple can administer), this is affirmed in His commission:

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus told the disciples to baptize, Jesus did not say "I will baptize".

And more than likely why Jesus while on this earth never baptized anyone with water, but his disciples:

John 4:1-2 (NKJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John [SUP]2 [/SUP] (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),



There is one saving baptism, Eph. 4:5 "one Lord, one faith, one baptism;" so then Peter in Acts 10:47-48 would be preaching another gospel administering a second baptism since the Lord had already baptized Cornelius in Acts 10:44-45.

Peter commanded the water baptism because it is the saving baptism of Eph. 4:5 and the one administered in Acts 2:38

Still wrong. Gods grace is wholly sufficient to save and only Gods grace is sufficient to save. Apart from salvation by grace you are not saved no matter how many baptisms or other rites you receive.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

You cannot receive the truth until you receive Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit. It does not matter how much water or how many times only God can save a soul and that by grace.

The great commission is a baptism in doctrine not water or Holy Spirit. It is in the context and the construction of the passage in the original language.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The human administered water baptism of the great commission is literal water baptism that disciples are to carry out until the end of the world, Mt 28:19,10; Mk 16:15,16. As the eunuch was baptized in literal water.

Baptisms in the New Testament
baptism of fire, Mt 3:11
baptism of Holy Spirit Mt 3:11
baptism of John Mt 3:16
baptism unto Moses 1 Cor 10:2
baptism of suffering Lk 15:30
baptism for the dead, 1 Cor 15:29
baptism of the great commission, Mt 28:19,20

No such thing as a "baptism of doctrine".

 

[notuptome]

The human administered water baptism of the great commission is literal water baptism that disciples are to carry out until the end of the world, Mt 28:19,10; Mk 16:15,16. As the eunuch was baptized in literal water.

Baptisms in the New Testament
baptism of fire, Mt 3:11
baptism of Holy Spirit Mt 3:11
baptism of John Mt 3:16
baptism unto Moses 1 Cor 10:2
baptism of suffering Lk 15:30
baptism for the dead, 1 Cor 15:29
baptism of the great commission, Mt 28:19,20

No such thing as a "baptism of doctrine".

First just because you believe it don't make it so.

It is quite pointless for you to endeavor to teach that which you do not know.

Gods grace is wholly sufficient to save. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation and is merely a religious rite.

Until you receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit you cannot know the truths of Gods word for they require the Holy Spirit to make them known unto you.

You can know that you are a sinner and that the wages of sin is death. You can know that Jesus Christ was the spotless Lamb of God sent to die in your place that you might be redeemed by His blood. You can know that Christ will save you if you allow Him. You must give up your righteousness and allow Christ to serve you in salvation. You do not serve Him but He serves you. You can know that if you do not trust Christ to save you that you will perish forever in the lake of fire.

Beyond that you will be a double minded man and will be unstable in all your ways. There are many things you cannot know because you will not allow Christ to minister unto you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

THAT IS A LIE!

For $64,000, quote any verse where the Lord Jesus says ONLY in "only after you have endured."

You refer to a passage about enduring the suffering of the Tribulation, which has nothing to do with salvation as the new birth that brings eternal life to the recipients.

But it is a fact that all who are saved endure.

I GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIFE, & THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Here again is the absolute proof:



Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:


But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

1) Zacchaeus is not an example of NT gospel salvation for Lk 19 occurred while the OT law was still in effect.

2) you quoted verse 9 before verse 8. Zacchaeus did works in v8 therefore salvation came to his house verse 9.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Still wrong. Gods grace is wholly sufficient to save and only Gods grace is sufficient to save. Apart from salvation by grace you are not saved no matter how many baptisms or other rites you receive.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Matthew 8:27 (NKJV)
27 So the men marveled, saying, "Who can this be, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?"

If the winds and the sea obey Him, who are you to think you have no need to?

 

[SeaBass]

First just because you believe it don't make it so.

It is quite pointless for you to endeavor to teach that which you do not know.

Gods grace is wholly sufficient to save. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation and is merely a religious rite.

Until you receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit you cannot know the truths of Gods word for they require the Holy Spirit to make them known unto you.

You can know that you are a sinner and that the wages of sin is death. You can know that Jesus Christ was the spotless Lamb of God sent to die in your place that you might be redeemed by His blood. You can know that Christ will save you if you allow Him. You must give up your righteousness and allow Christ to serve you in salvation. You do not serve Him but He serves you. You can know that if you do not trust Christ to save you that you will perish forever in the lake of fire.

Beyond that you will be a double minded man and will be unstable in all your ways. There are many things you cannot know because you will not allow Christ to minister unto you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

--The fact Phillip water baptized the eunuch is proof the baptism of the great commission is water baptism. In Acts 2 Peter preached to the crowd then commanded them to be baptized. A difference in preaching them doctrine and being baptized.

--no verse says one must have an indwelling of the Holy Ghost before he can understand God's word. That idea puts fault and blame upon God/Holy Spirit. If one could not read and understand God's word, then it would be God/Holy Spirit's failure to indwell him so he can understand.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The problem is that you will not accept Gods grace as wholly sufficient to save. Until and unless you allow God to save you, you will not be saved.

Why did the apostles baptize with water one simple reason tradition.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I do allow the Holy Spirit to work in my life to lead my walk in life, which is why I will not just sit back and let something be taken out of scripture that can clearly be seen as being used by the Apostles. If water immersion was no longer needed in the process of baptism Jesus would have told the Apostles to stop using it, and show them the proper way to baptize now without water. However we see in Acts that they still used it, from Peter to Paul they both baptized others in water.
Paul showed in one scripture how he baptized them in water into Christ, then he laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. ( Acts 19 )