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Kerry
Guest
Yes the cross of Christ is null and void unless your head gets wetted by a preacher. Amen. Lets say it again AAAHHHMMEENNN. If you don't say it like that it don't count.
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1 Cor 1:14-16 Paul baptized few at Corinth not that he baptized few everywhere during his ministry.
There was division at Corinth where instead of all following Christ as they should they were following after the person who baptized them. So when Paul says "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius" the reason being "Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name"
The reason Paul was thankful he did not personally baptize more at Corinth was because he did not want them to accuse him of baptizing in his own name rather than baptizing in the name of Christ. The idea that Paul baptized few at Corinth because baptism is not essential is assumed and added to the context.
In 1 Cor 1:12,13 Paul used the necessity of (1) Christ's crucifixion and (2) being baptized in the name of Christ for one to be "of" Christ. No one can be "of" Christ if he has not been baptized in the name of Christ.
It does not say Cornelius was saved after baptism of the Holy Spirit, you are reading that into it forcing it to say something it does not say and cannot prove.
There is one baptism for us:
Ephesians 4:5 (NKJV) one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
In Corinthians 10 we have two that are administered, however only one is able to save or Eph 4:5 is a lie.
In Matt 28:19 Jesus told all His disciples to "go baptize", he did not tell his disciples "go and I will baptize", He commanded a baptism that disciples can do to make disciples more disciples:
Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
You make "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" some magical mystical confession, when what it is telling you is "do it as authorized by, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit", the ONLY authorized baptism is the one of Eph 4:5, the one disciples are authorized to do (to think the Son needs authorization from the HS is silly)
There were 8 conversions in Acts, one was Cornelius, and he was the ONLY one recorded having been baptized by the HS, yet they like the other 7 were water baptized...
Peter knew that Cornelius required the water baptism of Eph 4:5, the one he and the others were commissioned and commanded (authorized) to do, so he water baptized them for remission of sins, the same authorized baptism in Acts 2:38, Peter commanded them to be water baptized in Acts 10:47.
Peter knew there was only one saving baptism, he knew Cornelius had just been baptized by our Lord, yet commanded them be baptized with water, why? because it is the baptism of Eph 4:5.
Nowhere does the scriptures ever say it was an act of obedience to "show" an inward faith, this is your man made doctrine and not the doctrine of Christ.
Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:..."
Acts 2:44 "And all that believed were together..."
1) those that "believed" in verse 44 are the ones that were baptized in verse 41. So "believed" in verse 44 is used as a synecdoche where "believed" includes being baptized. One does not have a NT belief that saves who has not been baptized.
2) the language of verse 41 is one who is not baptized is one who is rejecting the gospel message. Therefore one is rejecting, has not gladly accepted the gospel until he has been baptized. One rejecting baptism is rejecting the cross of Christ, the gospel message.
Acts 2:44 "And all that believed were together..."
1) those that "believed" in verse 44 are the ones that were baptized in verse 41. So "believed" in verse 44 is used as a synecdoche where "believed" includes being baptized. One does not have a NT belief that saves who has not been baptized.
2) the language of verse 41 is one who is not baptized is one who is rejecting the gospel message. Therefore one is rejecting, has not gladly accepted the gospel until he has been baptized. One rejecting baptism is rejecting the cross of Christ, the gospel message.
Which did you take of Mark 1:8 (KJV) [SUP]8 [/SUP] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
If you rely on both then instead of one baptism you regard two baptisms. If you rely on the former, you are still merely under promise of Christ to come. That's John's water baptism. The fulfillment of that is the spirit baptism by Jesus Himself. It says Jesus will baptize with the Holy Ghost, not like John did, dunking in water.
I appreciate your desire to keep the post short, I agree we lose focus and usually only read parts of long posts so they tend to be useless, I did quote your entire post only to keep the context of your POV.
Paul was speaking to the Corinthians, the division he was dealing with may not have been isolated to only Corinth but he was dealing with this isolated example of those in this city, when he said Christ sent him to preach the gospel, not baptize, he was talking expressly to those in Corinth, (but note he did say there were some he did baptized in Corinth, so Paul was exerting a focus on what the Gospel says, or he lied), the Gospel says "baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit", not of Paul, or Apollos, or Peter etc...
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AVoice
Guest
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AVoice
Guest
Love rejoices at the truth.
Are you rejoicing at what Peter said was necessary to do in order to be saved? Or do you simply dismiss what he said as if it were an error on his part?
Acts 10:44-48 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[SUP]45 [/SUP] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]46 [/SUP] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[SUP]47 [/SUP] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[SUP]48 [/SUP] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
STEP 1: Peter preached the gospel, they listened.
STEP 2: The Holy Ghost fell on all that heard the word. That's the same Holy Spirit that fell on the 120 in the upper room, believers waiting for Jesus' promise. Cornelius' house received that baptism of Christ, were fully saved. The Holy Spirit is not given to any lost person.
STEP 3: The Jews with Peter heard them speak in tongues and magnify God. They were saved.
STEP 4: AFTER salvation they were candidates for John's water baptism. Since they were saved and filled with the Spirit, the baptism in water was a figure of the spiritual.
Yet the disciples (including John) were to baptize (could only baptize) with water, ONLY JESUS could baptize with the Holy Spirit (and fire).
The apostles, and everyone today are commissioned to baptize with the baptism "authorized" by the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"(Matt 28:19), the Son does not need authorization for Holy Spirit baptism, the ones that need authorization are the disciples... the ONLY AUTHORIZED baptism is the baptism with water, the one and only authorized baptism of Eph 4:4.
Romans 10:8-15 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
"Roman Road of Salvation"
Been working just fine for nearly 2,000 years.
No, it is the same HS baptism that fell on the 12, that was another place in time from the 120.
No place in the scripture does it say anyone was saved when they heard them speak, your reading this into the scripture, deriving your conclusion from ONLY your man made doctrine, not the doctrine of Christ.
Again, you're reading your POV that the water baptism was a show of their belief.
Take Paul's conversion, was he saved (sins washed away) when he believed on the road to Damascus? or after he was water baptized?
Acts 22:16 (NKJV)
16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
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kennethcadwell
Guest
[h=1]Acts 19:3-5[/h]3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Notice Paul asked them about their baptism (with water), and when they told them it was John's. He told them about Jesus, and then they were baptized (with water) this time in Jesus name. This is not administering the Holy Spirit to them, because after they did this then in verse 6 it says how they were given the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:6
Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
Right there in the scripture you gave, Peter clearly says can any man forbid water ?
That question was posed by Peter, because he was saying that the Lord Jesus was the one who commanded it so no man should forbid it and say not to be done.
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AVoice
Guest
That was not John's water baptism. That was the NT baptism for the remission of sins that parallels Christ's death and resurrection. Two very different baptisms. Those who received John's baptism needed to also receive the NT baptism in water.
If after receiving the Holy Spirit they did not get baptized in water, they would quench and grieve the Holy Spirit. Disobedience to the basic command to get baptized in water is sin. Unless a person is born of water and of the Spirit he will not see the Kingdom. The wages of sin is death. The Holy Spirit can be taken away because of sin. Not getting baptized when that is possible is a HUGE SIN and denial of Christ. Those in ignorance refusing and so denying Christ will also be denied as Jesus said. We deny him, he denies us.
Proper exegesis requires one to know who is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said.
In Mt 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, andwith fire:"
Who is speaking? Who is being spoken to and what is being said?
From that immediate context it is not possible to tell who either the pronouns "you" refer. Many like to make themselves to second "you" but exegetically they cannot make themselves either of the pronouns "you".
To find out who the "you" is that is to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, must look at the fulfillment of John's words in Acts 1:1-5. In this context Jesus is speaking to His APOSTLES and even refers back to John's words of Mt 3:11 in Acts 1:5. The "you" that would be baptized with the Holy Spirit is the apostles. The apostles, not anyone today, was promised baptism with the Holy Spirit.
1) Rom 10:8-15 does not change, undo or trump Acts 2:41,44.
2) Paul did not mention repentance in this Rom 10 context. Does that mean repentance is not necessary to salvation contrary to Lk 13:3,5?
3) in the context of Romans chapters 9 and 10, the theme is Paul telling the Jews that their physical descent from Abraham will not save them, salvation requires obedience to the gospel of Christ. Paul in Rom 10 is addressing a general obedience to the gospel and not covering every specific aspect of obedience. One has to survey "all the counsel of God" in the NT gospel to find out every aspect of obedience that is required to be saved.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
That and the fact that back in Romans 6 Paul already talked about baptism to the Romans, so they already knew about it by this point of the letter.