Have the New Testament Charismatic gifts ceased?

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kaylagrl said:
Every healing I mentioned was done in public and are "legit"
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Would you be willing to provide evidence? There is a biblical precedence for it considering all those Jesus healed could not keep it contained and spread it everywhere. They were people many others had seen in an intensive state or obviously crippled state for years and the evidence was undeniable. Today, I would expect someone would be so happy they'd post on blogs, websites, youtube videos, and completely willing to share medical records and doctors testimonies. Please provide proof, or it's just another unconfirmed story.

The miracles in Jesus' day were not hidden and were undeniable, even by the pharisees.
 
ForthAngel said:
Using Christ as our example, he did miracles publicly for all to see. Same with the Apostles. They were not done in secret.

Again, Matthew 6 is specifically addressing prayer, fasting, and alms.

Plenty of videos of "miracles" out there. Show one hat is legit.
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Where did Jesus make a public skeptical or showing of it to where it made a mockery of His ability?


Then the other thing you must realize is that these people He did things for, first of all believed in Him.
Second He did things to show the authority that was given to Him, we don't show that authority because it is not us who does it but the Holy Spirit who does it through us. I said nothing of video's, I said others have shared personal testimonies of the healing they have personally witnessed.
 
kaylagrl said:
Every healing I mentioned was done in public and are "legit"
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Here is the thing, and what maybe considered as public.
Was done in front of a congregation group, or was it actually performed on a stage where people could come and pay admission to see the miracles performed. If it is the second that is what I was talking about making a skeptical, showing, or mockery of the gift. Which is wrong to do !!!
 
kennethcadwell said:
Here is the thing, and what maybe considered as public.
Was done in front of a congregation group, or was it actually performed on a stage where people could come and pay admission to see the miracles performed. If it is the second that is what I was talking about making a skeptical, showing, or mockery of the gift. Which is wrong to do !!!
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We can at least agree on this one.
 
ForthAngel said:
I will state again that I am not opposed to miracles or the gifts, but the evidence, biblically, historically, and lack of credible witnesses currently, are completely against modern sign gifts, which btw weren't given any credit until the modern overthrow of the church by this circus of charlatans we see today starting in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

NO miracles in the bible were commonplace. Never. The existed for a short time for a certain purpose (always to confirm God was speaking or giving authority to someone), and then ended with sometimes huge gaps in time before the next
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My wife had glaucoma at a very young age, in its final stages. Everything was foggy to her, she couldn't see very far. God miraculously healed her. She hasn't had problems, neither does she have any scar tissue from it.

Now, how can I prove that to you? I can only testify to the truth. Asking someone to "prove" their testimony is quite a easy game for unbelievers, knowing that most can't prove it in the first place, & saying their testimony isn't good enough to believe. Testimonies are good enough in God's eyes, for the scripture says we overcome the devil by the blood of the Lamb & the word of our testimony.

It's true, just like Abraham said to the rich man in Hell.....
Luke 16:27-31King James Version (KJV) 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren;that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The bottom line is some won't believe God healed a person's broken arm even if they backhanded them in the mouth with it.:rolleyes:
 
Stephen63 said:
My wife had glaucoma at a very young age, in its final stages. Everything was foggy to her, she couldn't see very far. God miraculously healed her. She hasn't had problems, neither does she have any scar tissue from it.

Now, how can I prove that to you? I can only testify to the truth. Asking someone to "prove" their testimony is quite a easy game for unbelievers, knowing that most can't prove it in the first place, & saying their testimony isn't good enough to believe. Testimonies are good enough in God's eyes, for the scripture says we overcome the devil by the blood of the Lamb & the word of our testimony.

It's true, just like Abraham said to the rich man in Hell.....
Luke 16:27-31King James Version (KJV) 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren;that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The bottom line is some won't believe God healed a person's broken arm even if they backhanded them in the mouth with it.:rolleyes:
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We are not debating saving faith in Christ but belief in miracles. Big difference. I believe in the Gospel preached to me and trust 100% in God alone. We are not discussing the saving faith being mentioned in this passage, but the general belief in sign gifts currently being active.

Someone who needs a sign in order to believe in Christ is not in the faith and Jesus calls them an evil and adulterous people. Someone who believes in the testimony preached to them from God's word and submit themselves to Christ regarding that belief have a saving faith.

Prove the gifts have not ceased. It should be easy. Thousands of churches worldwide practice them every service and record them. It shouldn't be that difficult.
 
some say they cant believe unless they see....yet they all claim that Jesus has washed away there sins? I would ask ...how can you know it if you didn't see it? I think some just want to believe according to what their religious tradition has taught them and what Bro so and so says... believe the Word of God! "BY HIS STRIPES YE ARE HEALED" then you will see how God honors His Word and the Work of His Son.
 
Mitspa said:
some say they cant believe unless they see....yet they all claim that Jesus has washed away there sins? I would ask ...how can you know it if you didn't see it? I think some just want to believe according to what their religious tradition has taught them and what Bro so and so says... believe the Word of God! "BY HIS STRIPES YE ARE HEALED" then you will see how God honors His Word and the Work of His Son.
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He honors it through spiritual growth, not infantile signs. Faith, hope, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Outward signs of change. Inner change. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.
 
ForthAngel said:
Someone who needs a sign in order to believe in Christ is not in the faith and Jesus calls them an evil and adulterous people..

Prove the gifts have not ceased. It should be easy. Thousands of churches worldwide practice them every service and record them. It shouldn't be that difficult.
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You forgot about Thomas, didn't you? He remained saved in spite of the fact he wouldn't believe until he put his hand in Jesus' hands & in His side.
 
Stephen63 said:
You forgot about Thomas, didn't you? He remained saved in spite of the fact he wouldn't believe until he put his hand in Jesus' hands & in His side.
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Pretty sure Thomas was already a believer in the Gospel dude. He wanted to know that that particular man was not an imposter. This had nothing to do with seeking a sign for salvation but more along the lines of testing to be sure this man was who he said he was, as we are called to do with everything.
 
ForthAngel said:
He honors it through spiritual growth, not infantile signs. Faith, hope, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Outward signs of change. Inner change. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.
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Handy how some don't really have to have any evidence of Gods power...just a "form of godliness" seems to work for some?
 
Mitspa said:
some say they cant believe unless they see....yet they all claim that Jesus has washed away there sins? I would ask ...how can you know it if you didn't see it? I think some just want to believe according to what their religious tradition has taught them and what Bro so and so says... believe the Word of God! "BY HIS STRIPES YE ARE HEALED" then you will see how God honors His Word and the Work of His Son.
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This is all true that you say, but even so some still get the forgiveness of sins part messed up.

For one some don't believe they have to forgive others, even though the scriptures say you clearly do.
And the other is the false theology that at conversion and initial repentance; past, present, and future sins are covered and forgiven. Problem again the bible makes it clear that only past and present are forgiven, future sins still have to be confessed and asked forgiveness of to be covered.
 
ForthAngel said:
Pretty sure Thomas was already a believer in the Gospel dude. He wanted to know that that particular man was not an imposter. This had nothing to do with seeking a sign for salvation but more along the lines of testing to be sure this man was who he said he was, as we are called to do with everything.
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These "signs" will follow those who believe.... We don't chase them but they follow us... who believe :)
 
kennethcadwell said:
This is all true that you say, but even so some still get the forgiveness of sins part messed up.

For one some don't believe they have to forgive others, even though the scriptures say you clearly do.
And the other is the false theology that at conversion and initial repentance; past, present, and future sins are covered and forgiven. Problem again the bible makes it clear that only past and present are forgiven, future sins still have to be confessed and asked forgiveness of to be covered.
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The truth is that sickness is a fruit of sin coming into the world at Adams fall....If someone really believes the true gospel "in Him we have no sin" they would enter into the Spirit by faith and receive the healing that is promised in the Covenant written in His Blood.
 
Stephen63 said:
You forgot about Thomas, didn't you? He remained saved in spite of the fact he wouldn't believe until he put his hand in Jesus' hands & in His side.
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That would be incorrect, for Thomas was not a believer in the Lord tell after He saw the resurrect Lord.
He even claimed that he did not believe tell he saw. You have to believe in the resurrection as well to be saved.

John 20:25
The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
 
ForthAngel said:
Those signs did follow those that believed. Then ended as foretold, and as church history bears witness to.
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So now the Word of God is not true? Or you have a "different" Spirit, different gospel, different Jesus? I don't understand what point you think you are making? The early Church lived in holiness and godliness by the Power of the Holy Spirit...did that all end too?
 
kennethcadwell said:
That would be incorrect, for Thomas was not a believer in the Lord tell after He saw the resurrect Lord.
He even claimed that he did not believe tell he saw. You have to believe in the resurrection as well to be saved.

John 20:25
The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
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Good point and I could concede. Are we sure he did not believe in the risen Christ, or was it simply that he did not believe they had seen the risen Christ?
 
Mitspa said:
The truth is that sickness is a fruit of sin coming into the world at Adams fall....If someone really believes the true gospel "in Him we have no sin" they would enter into the Spirit by faith and receive the healing that is promised in the Covenant written in His Blood.
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That just means we do not live in willful unrepented sins, not that we never sin again.
We still do sin, and those sins have to be confessed and asked forgiveness of to be forgiven and covered by His blood.
( 1 John, and Hebrews 10:26 )
 
kennethcadwell said:
That would be incorrect, for Thomas was not a believer in the Lord tell after He saw the resurrect Lord.
He even claimed that he did not believe tell he saw. You have to believe in the resurrection as well to be saved.

John 20:25
The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
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Kenneth you seem to just make stuff up as you go along? The Lord Himself affirmed the faith and salvation of all His 12 but Judas before He was crucified...many times in scripture.
 
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