THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Mitspa]

That's like saying, My pair of duces beats your full-flush or 4 aces.

How long, oh Lord?

Yea those letters of yours are greater than Gods Holy Word...See this has been the debate between Protestants and catholics from the beginning ...so you really should not act surprised ...should you? Or maybe you should read more than what they allow you to read?

 

[ChristIsGod]

A lot of folks named Clement...and folks named Judas too... But these writtings have NO authority except to catholics who refuse the authority of the scriptures... They have no value to me... And again I ask if this standard you are trying to affirm for salvation is the same for the leaders of your church? Could any of them be saved even by the standard of these letters you are trying to put above scripture? these letters are designed for one thing? To establish the false authority of Rome...

So who DO you listen to at what type of Church, and on the radio and who's books do you read and from what period of history ... such as the Classics or men who are alive now, etc?

Seriously, can you answer that or are you to proud or ashamed to answer that?

 

[Mitspa]

So who DO you listen to at what type of Church, and on the radio and who's books do you read and from what period of history ... such as the Classics or men who are alive now, etc?

Seriously, can you answer that or are you to proud or ashamed to answer that?

If you want to start a thread on books and who reads this or that...and who is proud and who is not? Then start a thread on that... Im trying to keep this thread on topic...even tho I think its about run its course..and its really too big now for folks to get much out of it?

 

[ChristIsGod]

Yea those letters of yours are greater than Gods Holy Word...See this has been the debate between Protestants and catholics from the beginning ...so you really should not act surprised ...should you? Or maybe you should read more than what they allow you to read?

Listen, New Guy ---- IF you had read my posts from my beginning here - even on this thread where I told what church I'm a member of -- and elsewhere -- you wouldn't answer with such nonsense.

You answer far too quickly as well --- which is only showing from where your posts are coming from --- not His Spirit but obviously flesh-flesh and more flesh - just like the others.

Why don't you go 'pray in the Spirit' for a while and see if your posts come out any different and takes that I'm-a-smarty-pants smile off of them as well.

Just a suggestion.

We'd get a lot more in the Spirit of The Word if you would.

TIA if you'd try that.

 

[Kerry]

Listen, New Guy ---- IF you had read my posts from my beginning here - even on this thread where I told what church I'm a member of -- and elsewhere -- you wouldn't answer with such nonsense.

You answer far too quickly as well --- which is only showing from where your posts are coming from --- not His Spirit but obviously flesh-flesh and more flesh - just like the others.

Why don't you go 'pray in the Spirit' for a while and see if your posts come out any different and takes that I'm-a-smarty-pants smile off of them as well.

Just a suggestion.

We'd get a lot more in the Spirit of The Word if you would.

TIA if you'd try that.

Get em girl, but Mitspa seems okay.

 

[ChristIsGod]

In its primary meaning, the Hebrew word mitzvah (/ˈmɪtsvə/;[SUP][1][/SUP] meaning "commandment", מִצְוָה, [mit͡sˈva]

Kerry, you're too funny. I see you come on at night and put one-liners on a whole line of threads on this BDF and it is funny seeing your name zoom up the BDF Index page. Way ta go -- hit 'em all!

How ya doing anyway?

 

[Mitspa]

Listen, New Guy ---- IF you had read my posts from my beginning here - even on this thread where I told what church I'm a member of -- and elsewhere -- you wouldn't answer with such nonsense.

You answer far too quickly as well --- which is only showing from where your posts are coming from --- not His Spirit but obviously flesh-flesh and more flesh - just like the others.

Why don't you go 'pray in the Spirit' for a while and see if your posts come out any different and takes that I'm-a-smarty-pants smile off of them as well.

Just a suggestion.

We'd get a lot more in the Spirit of The Word if you would.

TIA if you'd try that.

Seems you end up having issues with others as well ...anyone who dares say the word grace..i guess? Now that you have shown me how to act I will know from now on

 

[ChristIsGod]

Seems you end up having issues with others as well ...anyone who dares say the word grace..i guess? Now that you have shown me how to act I will know from now on

If you knew me, then you would know me.

Now, back to this thread of yours. Really now - how can you reject as much Scripture as you do?

You do know that the Reformed folks do read the ECFs but I truly don't care if you don't or do read them or Schaff's history of the church, but I was serious in wanting to know who you DO respect from at least the 1800's up unto today. We may have some common ground there -- see?

 

[Brainfreeze]

Seems you end up having issues with others as well ...anyone who dares say the word grace..i guess? Now that you have shown me how to act I will know from now on

I don't mind...

15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Yahshua Christ. 18No man hath seen YAHWEH at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[Kerry]

In its primary meaning, the Hebrew word mitzvah (/ˈmɪtsvə/;[SUP][1][/SUP] meaning "commandment", מִצְוָה, [mit͡sˈva]

Kerry, you're too funny. I see you come on at night and put one-liners on a whole line of threads on this BDF and it is funny seeing your name zoom up the BDF Index page. Way ta go -- hit 'em all!

How ya doing anyway?

Love ya sis, Merry Christmas and don't cross me our I will give you the cross.

 

[Mitspa]

If you knew me, then you would know me.

Now, back to this thread of yours. Really now - how can you reject as much Scripture as you do?

You do know that the Reformed folks do read the ECFs but I truly don't care if you don't or do read them or Schaff's history of the church, but I was serious in wanting to know who you DO respect from at least the 1800's up unto today. We may have some common ground there -- see?

I don't know nothing about you? maybe your really nice? Its a little hard to see right now... I don't know nothing about reformed this or that ...I have read all sorts of teachers from many groups...but what im teaching is the law of God is love...its not the written code...its the Spirit of God shedding Gods love abroad in our hearts...and us taking that love and loving others...that's Gods law...its spiritual and cant get it by works...only by faith...I found that God had given me a supernatural love ...and I went out and loved the weak..sick..prisoners ..etc Not with my love or a love that comes from keeping a written commandment...but a love that comes from the Spirit of God...as I walked in this I studied for almost ten years ..sometimes 16 hours a day...God taught me the true gospel...Now you can accept that or reject it... or hold judgment? But I know what I believe and why I believe it.. if you want an honest debate in the scriptures...Im your man...but the issue of being justified by faith is the foundation of all biblical truth...and all works flow from that truth.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Love ya sis, Merry Christmas and don't cross me our I will give you the cross.

I do love you as well, Kerry ... but what 'cross' are you talking about?

 

[ChristIsGod]

Sorry Mitspa, but I haven't seen that "love" coming from you on this thread nor from the other two that I had to put on Ignore -- the first time I've ever done that in 12 yrs on the internet forums. I just couldn't take anymore of the hatred toward their Brothers in Christ -- who they think aren't their Brothers in Christ -- but even if they 'aren't' ... where's the love period?

I posted this last week that it's not the doctrine itself that's grieving me, but the spirit in which people that believe this way are posting at others that are just posting Scriptures and lots of Scripture at that.

What can I say? I've been accused of being a Mormon. Of being Catholic. And I've watched as my Brothers were being torn to shreds on this topic by those that claim to love .... I'm sorry if I'm having a hard time with that type of love.

My pastor - as I mentioned - is Reformed, though I'm not - and he knows it - but they love me and I love them and we don't debate and sure as life don't judge each other's salvation -- he believes with all of his heart that I am saved and vice versa .... but I've already posted all of this since I first joined here so, I'll turn this thread back over to you Brothers now.

Just thought we could talk but I do believe that the Brothers are to do this back & forth stuff.

To you & yours - have a Good day.

 

[Mitspa]

Sorry Mitspa, but I haven't seen that "love" coming from you on this thread nor from the other two that I had to put on Ignore -- the first time I've ever done that in 12 yrs on the internet forums. I just couldn't take anymore of the hatred toward their Brothers in Christ -- who they think aren't their Brothers in Christ -- but even if they 'aren't' ... where's the love period?

I posted this last week that it's not the doctrine itself that's grieving me, but the spirit in which people that believe this way are posting at others that are just posting Scriptures and lots of Scripture at that.

What can I say? I've been accused of being a Mormon. Of being Catholic. And I've watched as my Brothers were being torn to shreds on this topic by those that claim to love .... I'm sorry if I'm having a hard time with that type of love.

My pastor - as I mentioned - is Reformed, though I'm not - and he knows it - but they love me and I love them and we don't debate and sure as life don't judge each other's salvation -- he believes with all of his heart that I am saved and vice versa .... but I've already posted all of this since I first joined here so, I'll turn this thread back over to you Brothers now.

Just thought we could talk but I do believe that the Brothers are to do this back & forth stuff.

To you & yours - have a Good day.

Look...there are real reasons why some of us rebuke certain groups...Love sometimes calls a viper a viper...Im not called to love a group that I sincerely believe represents the antichrist...Im sorry with all my heart I believe that and believe I have sound biblical reasons...but I am called to love the catholics as individuals and accept there personal faith in Jesus Christ...and deal with them on a personal level... I don't want to hurt you or anyone... and Im sorry I can accept you as a brother or sister based on your personal faith in Christ..but I cannot accept what I know and believe to be evil...I cannot approve it... You know Paul told some folks that his heart was open to them and he wanted to treat them kindness and compassion...but they would not allow it..they had closed up their own heart. Im not saying things about the RCC to hurt people...I say them because I believe they are true and need to be said... but if It hurts you as a person and as a believer? Maybe I need to restrict myself some on this issue?

 

[Kerry]

I do love you as well, Kerry ... but what 'cross' are you talking about?

The ultimate love of God, that He became a man and died on the cross for you and me. The only thing that we can hope for and the only thing that God will accept. Faith in His son.

 

[Mitspa]

You know Love does turn the other cheek...but love also protects the weak from those who would harm them...God even killed a couple people who tried to come into the early church and cause harm... Not because God hated those people, but because He loved His people and was protecting them. Paul did many things in the power of God that did not look like he was loving those who tasted his rod...but he did it to protect the Sheep he loved. We don't want to hurt anyone..but if someone came to harm our folks or our kids...our love would cause us to defend them. God upholds the right of government to punish criminals..not because He hates the criminals..but because He loves and protects the weak that criminals harm..

 

[ChristIsGod]

The ultimate love of God, that He became a man and died on the cross for you and me. The only thing that we can hope for and the only thing that God will accept. Faith in His son.

I believe in Hebrews 11 type of faith and the faith that James speaks about and the faith of Jesus and the faith of all that the Apostles did and the faith that will have us to read His Every Word and believe it, because He 'is' The Word of God and He said through His Apostles that we are to 'walk even as He walked".

Walking in the Spirit is not 'guessing' what to say or 'guessing what a person is like' or 'guessing' what to say or do ... it's humans admitting that "without Him we can do nothing" and that in our flesh dwells No Good Thing - so we die to our autonomous living by our own minds alone and listen for His Still Small voice to lead, direct and teach His dumb Sheep and all Sheep are dumb and need their Shepherd to survive and not walk off a cliff somewhere and they hear His Voice and Know His Voice and follow His Voice because they know that, as long as they do - they'll be safely in the center of His will and not trying to play God by guessing what others are like and judging their salvation, etc. etc. with dumb sheep brains instead of the Only Omniscient One to guide them along.
We all step out in the flesh at times, but it's not His will that we do - because we get hurt when we're not listening to the Shepherd and letting Him control the action or thought.
We should be growing daily in leaving self behind and being totally dependent on Him to be the guiding Shepherd that He is and listen.

There's a lot of voices trying to get our attention and we can only hear His Voice when we quiet them all, including our own, and know that our Life is depending on doing just that -- more than we know.

 

[Brainfreeze]

You know Love does turn the other cheek...but love also protects the weak from those who would harm them...God even killed a couple people who tried to come into the early church and cause harm... Not because God hated those people, but because He loved His people and was protecting them. Paul did many things in the power of God that did not look like he was loving those who tasted his rod...but he did it to protect the Sheep he loved. We don't want to hurt anyone..but if someone came to harm our folks or our kids...our love would cause us to defend them. God upholds the right of government to punish criminals..not because He hates the criminals..but because He loves and protects the weak that criminals harm..

Paul made a man go blind..

…10and said, "You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of God? 11"Now, behold, the hand of God is upon you, and you will be blind and not see the sun for a time." And immediately a mist and a darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking those who would lead him by the hand. 12Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of Yahshua.

 

[newbirth]

I don't know nothing about you? maybe your really nice? Its a little hard to see right now... I don't know nothing about reformed this or that ...I have read all sorts of teachers from many groups...but what im teaching is the law of God is love...its not the written code...its the Spirit of God shedding Gods love abroad in our hearts...and us taking that love and loving others...that's Gods law...its spiritual and cant get it by works...only by faith...I found that God had given me a supernatural love ...and I went out and loved the weak..sick..prisoners ..etc Not with my love or a love that comes from keeping a written commandment...but a love that comes from the Spirit of God...as I walked in this I studied for almost ten years ..sometimes 16 hours a day...God taught me the true gospel...Now you can accept that or reject it... or hold judgment? But I know what I believe and why I believe it.. if you want an honest debate in the scriptures...Im your man...but the issue of being justified by faith is the foundation of all biblical truth...and all works flow from that truth.

James 2:23-24King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Atwood]

The Spirit spoke, it was not about food.

You don't think it has implications regarding food?

Cf Mark 7 " because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said, making all foods clean.