M
Mitspa
Guest
Now how in the world could you come to the conclusion that I am putting people under the law of Moses?
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Now how in the world could you come to the conclusion that I am putting people under the law of Moses?
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Then you should not be preaching that you can lose salvation. You should be assured of your salvation, in fact all those verses prove you are secure in christ.
But I know you do not believe this, or teach it, so you would not practice what you just taught. .
You just don't get it !!!
We do not preach that some can lose salvation because we are not assured of our own salvation.
We our assured of our own salvation, but we preach the warnings that one can lose salvation because it is all over the bible from the words of our Lord all the way through the epistles. Showing many will fall away from God's grace do to deceptions, hardships, and letting sin take back control of their lives.
Just because we are assured of our faith, does not mean we are not going to sit back and not warn others they same warnings that our Lord Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John gave to us. That would be selfish not to warn others of these same things.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
eternal life is in Christ...one is sanctified in Christ by the word...which means obeying the word... the issue is with your wording....
It is not in the wording, it is in the context. as ALL things should be.
You keep saying this, yet to refuse to acknowledge what true obedience is. According to the law. true obedience is perfection. And neither your or I have fulfilled that requirement, nor can we.
since you state lack of obedience can cause one to lose salvation. Your required to state what the requirement is, which would allow one ot be saved, verses lose salvation.
I keep showing scripture has proven that requirement (perfection) you keep denying it, and will not tell us "how good is good enough"
You can not go preaching that obedience is required, and then fail to tell us HOW MUCH obedience is required.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
hebrew 10 is not about going back to the law...it is showing what the law was capable of and what Christ is capable of...that sacrifice perfects forever them that are sanctified...do you expect one who is not sanctified to be perfected? I obey the word and abide in Christ...so how did you arrive at me rejecting the one sacrifice....according to scripture I am sanctified...
See, here you go again.
Can you not read?
He has perfected (In the perfect tense, it is a completed action. not one which is ongoing, but completed)
forever (The length of time, the completed action will take place)
Those BEING sanctified (in the passive voice, the subject of the sentence is not making them selves sanctified, it is a things which is being acted upon them, )
You deny the power of God to do anything, you can not twist this verse to mean anything other than what it says. It does nto say we are sanctifying ourself. it says GOD IS SANCTIFYING US!
second, you can not say it is not about the law. the whole of chapter ten speaks of the inadequacy of the sacrificial system of the law!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
you have a weird reasoning...and very poor understanding...
spoken by one who continues to prove he does not understand the meaning of literal words. Like propitiation.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Some may have heard this,,,so be it.
There was a man who wanted to come to America. He saved and saved to get a ticket on a ship. finally he got a ticket and boarded the ship. It was a long journey and he was totally broke so after other had eaten he would go and scrounge the leftovers that he could find. This was a lot of work and kept him away from sleep and he was worried a lot as he wasn't in that great of shape anyhow, Finally as the ship was pulling into the New York Harbor. All the passengers were on deck and very happy to see land and the statue of Liberty. This man was leaning on the deck's rail when another person said to him, " friend are you okay? You look happy but at the same time look worn out, the man told him the story of how he savd and saved to get on the ship and then said how he ate scraps and worked so hard to stay afloat himself during the journey across the sea with all it's dangers and all. he was shocked when this person then said to him: My friend when you got your ticket your destination was sealed and I feel funny telling you this now but all the meals were included as well. You did not have to work as you did if you had only known the truth.
sounds alot like the HS and his seal.
how many of us work trying to get to heaven, after we are already sealed and our ticket is paid for.
God wants us to worry about others, we can not do this, when we are too worried about our selves
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Ok John tells us what these commandments are...he is not talking about the law of Moses. To have faith in Christ and love as Christ commanded us...which by the law IS THE ONLY WAY to fulfill the law...But being under the law itself is not of faith...because faith is trusting in the work of the Cross...not in our own works.
The problem is that you think that our Lord Jesus only gave two commands, when He actually states every word that He gave is a command because it comes from the Father and therefore should be obeyed and followed.
Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:39
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
These are not the only two commands that the Lord gave, He only says that all the law and the prophets rest on these two because by following these two you will keep and follow the rest;
Matthew 28:16-20
The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
He command repentance (Luke 13:3), baptism (Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16), confession (Matthew 10:32-33), forgiveness to others (Matthew 6:14-15), and the rest He said falls under all of these as it all falls under things that will be done out of love for Him.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
nice story ....the difference is in Christ you don't have to pay for your ticket and you have to labour for the meat that endures to everlasting life...
John 6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
what good is it if you labor for it. spend all that time working to find it, then once you find it and eat it, do not believe it gives you eternal life?, or that you will never hunger, never thirst, but need to continue to eat. or that it will nto make yuo never die, but live forever. all the things Jesus said whoever ate of it will recieve.
seems like a waste to me.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You just don't get it !!!
We do not preach that some can lose salvation because we are not assured of our own salvation.
We our assured of our own salvation, but we preach the warnings that one can lose salvation
The you can not preach you are assured of your salvation. You can not possibly know how you will act ten days from now. let alone ten years from now.
Dont be a hypocrite and say you are assured, yet everyone else has to be afraid.
because it is all over the bible from the words of our Lord all the way through the epistles. Showing many will fall away from God's grace do to deceptions, hardships, and letting sin take back control of their lives.
Just because we are assured of our faith, does not mean we are not going to sit back and not warn others they same warnings that our Lord Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John gave to us. That would be selfish not to warn others of these same things.
No, it does not teach this at all.
it teaches that many are in the church who are not saved, and they NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE SAVED so they do not fall from Grace.
You can;t comprehend this, because you need your work to account for something.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
The you can not preach you are assured of your salvation. You can not possibly know how you will act ten days from now. let alone ten years from now.
Dont be a hypocrite and say you are assured, yet everyone else has to be afraid.
No, it does not teach this at all.
it teaches that many are in the church who are not saved, and they NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE SAVED so they do not fall from Grace.
You can;t comprehend this, because you need your work to account for something.
You can not fall away from God's saving grace, unless you had it first. Which this is shown by Paul to the Galatians, then even our Lord Jesus says that many will fall away from the truth in Him. Also in Hebrews 3 and 6 it shows that those who are in Christ and have received the Holy Spirit can still fall away unless they heed the warnings of what to abstain from and watch out for.
Lord Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John would not have spent as much time on NT scriptures of what believers need to watch out for and abstain from if they did not matter to one's salvation. I can be assured of my own salvation through the Lord because I know that my heart belongs to Him, but I am not going to be selfish and not warn others the same warnings that were given to us when we gave our life to Christ.
K
Kerry
Guest
'You can not fall away from God's saving grace, unless you had it first. Which this is shown by Paul to the Galatians, then even our Lord Jesus says that many will fall away from the truth in Him. Also in Hebrews 3 and 6 it shows that those who are in Christ and have received the Holy Spirit can still fall away unless they heed the warnings of what to abstain from and watch out for.
Lord Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John would not have spent as much time on NT scriptures of what believers need to watch out for and abstain from if they did not matter to one's salvation. I can be assured of my own salvation through the Lord because I know that my heart belongs to Him, but I am not going to be selfish and not warn others the same warnings that were given to us when we gave our life to Christ.
I get ya and see where your coming from but what NT scriptures did they have to go by? Answer none, so what id they go by? answer the Holy Spirit. How do you get the Holy Spirit. Answer by placing your faith in the work of the cross.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
'
I get ya and see where your coming from but what NT scriptures did they have to go by? Answer none, so what id they go by? answer the Holy Spirit. How do you get the Holy Spirit. Answer by placing your faith in the work of the cross.
No they did not have the NT scriptures at that time, but they lived them and they had the direct teachings from the Lord Himself. The original 11 Apostles had the direct teaching from the Lord, and they were commissioned to hand them out and down to others. First to the Jews and then to the Gentiles, and the Holy Spirit was given by the Lord to help and guide them and us in our walk. This does not mean we are completely controlled by the Holy Spirit, and do not have our free will still in tact. The new testament scriptures were given to us to go by, but they lived in them by the natural and personal teachings of the Lord Himself.
And they all taught that others can fall from God's saving grace, so why should we not teach others the same?
K
Kerry
Guest
No they did not have the NT scriptures at that time, but they lived them and they had the direct teachings from the Lord Himself. The original 11 Apostles had the direct teaching from the Lord, and they were commissioned to hand them out and down to others. First to the Jews and then to the Gentiles, and the Holy Spirit was given by the Lord to help and guide them and us in our walk. This does not mean we are completely controlled by the Holy Spirit, and do not have our free will still in tact. The new testament scriptures were given to us to go by, but they lived in them by the natural and personal teachings of the Lord Himself.
And they all taught that others can fall from God's saving grace, so why should we not teach others the same?
Yes the Holy Spirit is a perfect gentlemen and will not force His will on you. But we want His will if we are true believers. By the way there were 12 apostles an Paul was the thirteenth. Just as there were 13 tribes. Yeah I know, but it is biblical.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Yes the Holy Spirit is a perfect gentlemen and will not force His will on you. But we want His will if we are true believers. By the way there were 12 apostles an Paul was the thirteenth. Just as there were 13 tribes. Yeah I know, but it is biblical.
Yes I know there was 12, but I do not count Judas as he betrayed Jesus and fell from the Lord Jesus and was lost to not end up with salvation. Then saying Paul was the 13th is not true as well, as many others were appointed before Paul was commissioned.
Luke 10:1
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
Acts 1:26
And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
The original 12 that I take and call eleven because of Judas betrayal was the only ones that got direct teachings from the Lord, and the others were all taught by these original Apostles.
K
Kerry
Guest
Yes I know there was 12, but I do not count Judas as he betrayed Jesus and fell from the Lord Jesus and was lost to not end up with salvation. Then saying Paul was the 13th is not true as well, as many others were appointed before Paul was commissioned.
Luke 10:1
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
Acts 1:26
And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
The original 12 that I take and call eleven because of Judas betrayal was the only ones that got direct teachings from the Lord, and the others were all taught by these original Apostles.
They cast lots and replaced Judas and then came Paul and yes there were Stephen and Phillip but they were not Apostles.
H
Hoffco
Guest
Yes the Holy Spirit is a perfect gentlemen and will not force His will on you. But we want His will if we are true believers. By the way there were 12 apostles an Paul was the thirteenth. Just as there were 13 tribes. Yeah I know, but it is biblical.
Sorry, I must disagree with both you and ken. I think both Jesus and the rest of the authors of the Scriptures taught that one can (CAN) "fall" away,OR, "come short of" / from common (COMMON) grace; But not from saving (SAVING) grace. Many "Calvinists" hate the term, "common grace" but in practice still admit to it. They correctly say "the person was never saved in the fist place, if they were, they would never have fallen away." which might be true, (CORRECT) OR might not be true. Paul speaks of some whom God killed in 1Cor., so they would not be condemned with the world,(the lost). Therefore, when a professed"christian" dies, suddenly, "before their time", naturally speaking, maybe an accident, we are not sure of their heart condition before God, ie. someone in sin, dying suddenly, maybe they were saved\, maybe not. WHY, do I argue this way? Because the Bible is very dogmatic, that Those whom God has elected to salvation, will be saved and will never lose their salvation. We all know the verses that teach this fact, if you don't, you need to read your Bible more clearly . Love to all, Hoffco
H
Hoffco
Guest
To Kerry, The reason I disagreed with you is that the Holy Spirit is not a "perfect gentleman"; The H.S. has to "force" His will upon every sinner He saves, the sinner comes"willingly" only after being MADE "willing" by God's grace. Love Hoffco
K
Kerry
Guest
So Judas didn't believe? Know I am not of the doctrine of once saved always saved. In my opinion that is a lie. Paul turned over several followers to the world for the destruction of their flesh which means gehenna or hell. I will admit that it is a difficult thing to do, but is possible. nI meant Ozzy Osbourne was a preacher and Katy Perry was raised in an Assembly of God Church. So yes you can turn back on God as Katy perry has done and many others.
K
Kerry
Guest
To Kerry, The reason I disagreed with you is that the Holy Spirit is not a "perfect gentleman"; The H.S. has to "force" His will upon every sinner He saves, the sinner comes"willingly" only after being MADE "willing" by God's grace. Love Hoffco
Sorry brother but The Holy Spirit convicts the heart of man and that man must respond by his own free will.
H
Hoffco
Guest
I often think that the apostle Paul might take the place of Matthias, in the end; as another tribe ,or two, were replaced by other men's names, in the end, in the book of Revelation. Love to all, Hoffco
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You can not fall away from God's saving grace, unless you had it first. Which this is shown by Paul to the Galatians, then even our Lord Jesus says that many will fall away from the truth in Him. Also in Hebrews 3 and 6 it shows that those who are in Christ and have received the Holy Spirit can still fall away unless they heed the warnings of what to abstain from and watch out for.
Lord Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John would not have spent as much time on NT scriptures of what believers need to watch out for and abstain from if they did not matter to one's salvation. I can be assured of my own salvation through the Lord because I know that my heart belongs to Him, but I am not going to be selfish and not warn others the same warnings that were given to us when we gave our life to Christ.
lol.
Grace is unmerited favor. You can not earn it. thus you can never fall from it.
Falling from grace means you fell from the thing which could have saved you, it does not mean you ever had it.
Nice try though.
but hey, if you think you can earn something which can not be earned, thats on you, eternity is to long for me to guess at things, and think things which goes completely against the meaning of words. .