Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are Really Leaving You

[Yet]

If you read the scriptures there was a teacher to the people. The bible says Pastors who shepard a certian amount people discipling them. to many leaderes in one place and nothing gets done there has to be a shepard even over the clergy.

Elders is plural. They are not to control or command. Nicolaitan: nico-to subdue. Laitan:laity- the folks. Clergy/laity came from the babylonian mysteries. To self elevate and 'lord it over His heritage'. See Diotrephes in 3John.
Elders are to serve, not rule. That is the Holy Spirits job.

 

[Jackson123]

We read in act, the work of the Holy spirit was clearly visible, from the healing miracle, prophecy, visions etc. And it make the church grow very fast. I wonder, why we hardly see the manifestation of the Holy spirit now. Is that because God do different way now or we as a church not as good as the first church.

 

[ardchoille]

I have to say, I have never been completely comfortable in a church that is run by pastors who wear suits and ties and drive expensive cars.. that just seems to fly in the face of what Jesus taught. And, if I wanted to see a show I'd go to Las Vegas.

 

[Jeff_56]

this is a very good and critical (life and death) question. the answer is only known, literally, by those to whom the Father in heaven grants it. (as Yeshua told Peter; and as John the Immerser said plainly) .....

no one who is audibly by a person told it, gets it. no one who trusts man or men, gets it. only those who seek and trust the Father in heaven, through grace by faith in Yeshua, and even that is a Gift, not in any way of ourselves.

there are, btw, many direct statements in Scripture that are understood only by little children, and humble adults who have become as little children, trusting Yahweh as a 3 year old boy trusts completely his earthly father (when he has a good father any way....) ....

simply, the answer is granted by seeking Yahweh Himself, desperately hungry and thirsty FOR HIM, reading all of Scripture through and through.... it takes time usually (some is all at once, once for all.... other takes time, decades, even a life time)........

as it is written. so it is. (for obvious answers to some of your seeking, look at all the different descriptions in the NT about the believers , as you have started to, apparently...) oh, and you can expect to be attacked if you bring up questions at most churches, about Scripture and why they are not like Scripture says.... remember they attacked Yeshua first, and would crucify Him today if they could. some of them actually do 're-crucify' Him daily in their official practice since a little after 300 a.d.)

We read in act, the work of the Holy spirit was clearly visible, from the healing miracle, prophecy, visions etc. And it make the church grow very fast. I wonder, why we hardly see the manifestation of the Holy spirit now. Is that because God do different way now or we as a church not as good as the first church.

 

[The_highwayman]

Elders is plural. They are not to control or command. Nicolaitan: nico-to subdue. Laitan:laity- the folks. Clergy/laity came from the babylonian mysteries. To self elevate and 'lord it over His heritage'. See Diotrephes in 3John.
Elders are to serve, not rule. That is the Holy Spirits job.

Why not start a home church yet? Are you doing something about the issue?

 

[secularhermit]

Having been around for over 60 years, and in many churches because of moving, etc., I have observed that the most dissension is around the Holy Spirit. Some want to just teach about Him - some want to accept a few of His gifts - and others want Him to have free manifestation in their services as He wills.

I have seen people leaving churches because they have grown in spiritual ways and in a way have "outgrown" their church for lack of a better word. Some just need a different teacher. A lot of people have found that small home groups have been more
meaningful to them, both in bible discussions, and being prayed for personally. I see more and more people moving in that direction.

We once left a few churches because for 6 months, we never heard a sermon about Jesus - just about what we "should do or not do -or do better" I kept waiting for the focus to be on Jesus just once, and yet it stayed on how we live.

I think when people leave a church service, they should have spent quality time meditating on the many attributes of Christ and what He gives us and who He is for/to us. A greater awareness of Jesus is what changes people's lives. You become what you focus on. And if the focus is on yourself all the time, it is a dead end.

Not adding anything new but, what about the christian fellowship many expected to find there? What about those "loving" bounds few knew how to give and to share?

A church is not just a gathering place, many expected a family, a community, etc.

Fortunatelly I have found both extremes and the better places are (for me) those tiny places mentioned as home churches.

I came to believ in Christ for the example American Christians taught me, not by "preaching", but just the way these missionaries lived, and I spent a good time coupling with them so I owe A LOT those sponsoring their missionaries, I own good times to Doug Hardman, Tom Powell... and a lot of people God knows best: The Church is PEOPLE, not places.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Elders is plural. They are not to control or command. Nicolaitan: nico-to subdue. Laitan:laity- the folks. Clergy/laity came from the babylonian mysteries. To self elevate and 'lord it over His heritage'. See Diotrephes in 3John.
Elders are to serve, not rule. That is the Holy Spirits job.

I thought elders were people appointed by the Holy Spirit too.
Holy Spirit is not unruly nor forceful, so submission to elders happens naturally and with gladness.
I recognize an elder by this that they make me grow in Jesus when listening to them and applying their advice. People naturally gather around them because they speak wisdom of God, and even atheists tend to respect them because they lead a non-hypocritical life.

 

[secularhermit]

Soul!

Is that wall the wailing wall in Israel?

 

[SoulWeaver]

No... it is from a movie.
Similar color of the stones, but stones from the Wailing Wall are much bigger, just googled it.

 

[secularhermit]

I recognize an "Elder" by his/ her age... BY the badge worn on his WHITE shirt, too.



Ha! Ha!

 

[secularhermit]

No... it is from a movie.
Similar color of the stones, but stones from the Wailing Wall are much bigger, just googled it.

aCKNOWLEDGED!

yes, because if it were the way I thought, at distance, there would appear more people close to it.

Thanks!

 

[secularhermit]

Why not start a home church yet? Are you doing something about the issue?

Can we offer some money -Like Simon in Acts- to spur that idea out, everywhere?

 

[secularhermit]

I like this point:

[h=2]3. Your vision can’t see past your building.[/h]The coffee bar, the cushy couches, the high-tech lights, the funky Children’s wing and the uber-cool Teen Center are all top-notch … and costly. In fact, most of your time, money and energy seems to be about luring people to where you are instead of reaching people where they already are.

 

[Yet]

We read in act, the work of the Holy spirit was clearly visible, from the healing miracle, prophecy, visions etc. And it make the church grow very fast. I wonder, why we hardly see the manifestation of the Holy spirit now. Is that because God do different way now or we as a church not as good as the first church.

The way 'church' is done today quenches the Holy Spirit.

 

[The_highwayman]

The way 'church' is done today quenches the Holy Spirit.

So what are you doing besides renaming the I hate the current church re posts? Seriously my brother, what are you doing about it?

 

[Yet]

Why not start a home church yet? Are you doing something about the issue?

Yes, we fellowship in our home. I also put the word out now and then about returning to the NT paradigm of an assembly. Few r interested. They're not ready yet. Took us time to get there to.
We recieved a prophesy in '77. 'The ekklesis is not ready for you yet'. That simply means they're not ready to try the bibles description of an assembly. We're not the only dummies that want to do things Gods way.smile. Thousands are leaving organized religion for a closer walk with him. Giving up organization for an organic fellowship with believers who hunger for a deeper experience with Christ as opposed to settling for a 40 minute dry sermon every Sunday.

 

[secularhermit]

Is it GOD´s Spirit and will too "weak" to be quenched?

I just desagree with that "teaching", widespread, that the spirit of GOD can be manuvered, quenched or spoiled.

Please realize GOD did heavens and earth, He created angels and PERMITTED 1/3 of them followed Satan and, today, many insist on HIS WILL (and power) could be quenched... (?)

That´s why I chose to follow Jesus´ teaching solely!


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Jn 6:38 For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Luk 12:47 If servants are not ready or willing to do what their master wants them to do, they will be beaten hard.

 

[Jeff_56]

" [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Lord said to Moses, “Is the Lord's hand shortened? Now you shall see whether my word will come true for you or not.” [SUP]24 [/SUP]So Moses went out and told the people the words of the Lord. And he gathered seventy men of the elders of the people and placed them around the tent. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and took some of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. And as soon as the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied. But they did not continue doing it.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Now two men remained in the camp, one named Eldad, and the other named Medad, and the Spirit rested on them. They were among those registered, but they had not gone out to the tent, and so they prophesied in the camp. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And a young man ran and told Moses, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp.” [SUP]28 [/SUP]And Joshua the son of Nun, the assistant of Moses from his youth, said, “My lord Moses, stop them.” [SUP]29 [/SUP]But Moses said to him, “Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the Lord's people were prophets, that the Lord would put his Spirit on them!” [SUP]30 [/SUP]And Moses and the elders of Israel returned to the camp."


all through Torah, "his Spirit" , i.e. Himself, not as if, anywhere, a different Spirit than Him. that idea of a separate Spirit came later from other cultures/religions/outside of Israel and outside of ekklesia (believers).

 

[Yet]

Is it GOD´s Spirit and will too "weak" to be quenched?

I just desagree with that "teaching", widespread, that the spirit of GOD can be manuvered, quenched or spoiled.

Please realize GOD did heavens and earth, He created angels and PERMITTED 1/3 of them followed Satan and, today, many insist on HIS WILL (and power) could be quenched... (?)

That´s why I chose to follow Jesus´ teaching solely!


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Jn 6:38 For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Luk 12:47 If servants are not ready or willing to do what their master wants them to do, they will be beaten hard.

Then why are we told 'not to quench the Spirit' if He cannot be quenched? It simply means when man prefers to do things his way (where's Elvis when we need him) instead of Gods way, God won't force the issue. If He did, then the ekklesia would be write on target. No?

 

[Yet]

So what are you doing besides renaming the I hate the current church re posts? Seriously my brother, what are you doing about it?

huh? Renaming the what? Keep it simple my friend for I am a simple man.smile. And a little slow!
So seriously, my friend, what I am doing is what we are told to do in the word. Teach the word, exhort, correct, encourage, and even rebuke. Shine the light of the gospel in dark places. Expose errors, false doctrine, the traditions of men, false prophets, teachers, apostles and charlatans. That's what I'm doing about it here on this forum. You can't get into the dens of thieves and teach for the false leadership will not have it. It would shake their little kingdoms to the very sandy foundations they are built on.
This cannot be allowed for their very financial livelihood and high position of honor and adoration depends on keeping the folks ignorant of the scriptures.(think Catholic Church). Ignorance to the charlatans is indeed bliss, and profitable, but a curse to the unlearned vassals.