Music in Church?

[Quake10]

I think instruments and crack have absolutely nothing in common. Oh and for the verse "the body is the temple of the Lord"

 

[Jabberjaw]

I am supposing you are separating corporate worship from the worship we live, for the glory of God in all we do.
Your best argument would be on "order" in the Church, not on "authority". Such things are certainly within our freedom and authority in Christ, the question is about whether or not it is beneficial in a corporate worship setting, or if it is a distraction.

The best argument is authority, and if you use the doctrine of Christ as your authority (the bible) you will not find the authority to use mechanical musical instruments in the Lords church, you will not find it in the pattern described in the Holy Writ.

 

[posthuman]

If you go back to the OT law to justify the use of IM . . .

is the book of Psalms "the law" ?

Chronicles, Kings, Samuel -- is that "the law" ?

have i said playing a lyre is a commandment?

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
(Colossians 3:23-24)

the Lord blessed me with a talent to play a drum. what shall i do? play it for a profane purpose? bury my talent in the sand? can i not play it "heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men" ?
serious question.

 

[oldhermit]

There are NO scriptures that tell us to not use musical instruments in a worship service. There were rooms in the temple in Jerusalem that housed and protected instruments of that day. I have been a music/worship director for years and have experienced all kinds of man-made rules about just what constitutes a good worship service and what instruments are to be used or not. In one situation, a prominent business man had my gospel group to sing and perform for his funeral, as part of his will. When we got to the church early to set up, the priest was horrified but, at the same time, wanted to honor the wishes of the deceased and his family. My gospel group, and all instruments, were hidden behind a huge black curtain as to fool the people into thinking it was pre-recorded music being piped in. Imagine that!
I think the 'modern' problem with having electrical instruments and drums in a santuary carries the stigma of a rock concert where the loud, driving force of the music overpowers the vocals. This is a great fear of a lot of older members who are very complacent with the sound of a mid to lower range piano as a backdrop for the sluggish hymns that are so prominently a part of the traditional service.
I faced this situation way back in the 1960's and 1970's when I was a Youth Team President of a travelling Choir who provided live music as part of our programs. It was not just the music that most members hated, it was the style clothing, the length of the hair on the boys and the absence of suits that offenced many. I still face similar situations, in those frozen/chosen churches. If you want a more lively form of worship where modern instruments are used, you will find them more acceptable in a Happy/Clappy congregation, 'Nuff Said!.

And I have been a song leader in the Church for 45 years and have never found authority in the NT for the use of instruments in worship.

 

[pwrnJC]

Really? Just CoC is "big" on water baptism? What does your bible say about baptism?

There is a local Episcopallan church in my town that has yearly animal baptisms,sprinklings, and christenings. Some folk bring their pot bellied pigs, horses, cats, dogs, gerbils, etc, with christening gowns. I have to laugh at the parade that winds around the old 1699 church. Did JESUS shed HIs precious blood for our pet hampsters? lol

 

[SolidGround]

In all those years, have you been able to show one verse that shows the NT church to ever use music like you play in their worship of God?

Rev 15:2 shows victorious NT believers with harps by the glassy sea. Proof enough for me of it's purity and holiness as worship.

 

[Jabberjaw]

I think instruments and crack have absolutely nothing in common. Oh and for the verse "the body is the temple of the Lord"

They do when it comes to biblical authority, you will not find the authority to use them, or a command to not...

 

[MsLimpet]

There is a local Episcopallan church in my town that has yearly animal baptisms,sprinklings, and christenings. Some folk bring their pot bellied pigs, horses, cats, dogs, gerbils, etc, with christening gowns. I have to laugh at the parade that winds around the old 1699 church. Did JESUS shed HIs precious blood for our pet hampsters? lol

I don't think so! There are saints that are named after specific animal baptism's.

 

[Angela53510]

I play flute in church, which many people appreciate. I also sing, lead worship and I have led both adult and children's choirs.

The thing I have universally found with ex-Church of Christ people, is they sing off tune. If you google a song, and a CoC church is posted, the disharmony is unbelievable. I think, as a former music teacher, this is because they do not have instruments to keep them on pitch. I wonder if God appreciates a cacophony, or if is more pleasing to him to hear the beautiful harmonies of voice and instruments together? My thought is the latter.

Instruments were used in the Old Testament to worship God when the ark was brought to the city of David and David danced with joy!

"And David and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the Lord, with songs and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals." 2 Sam. 6:5

"As the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord, and she despised him in her heart." 2 Sam. 6:16

They were used to open Solomon's temple.

"The priests stood at their posts; the Levites also, with the instruments for music to the Lord that King David had made for giving thanks to the Lord—for his steadfast love endures forever—whenever David offered praises by their ministry; opposite them the priests sounded trumpets, and all Israel stood." 2 Chronicles 7:6

If instruments were good enough for David and Solomon to praise the Lord, why on earth would we throw them away?

In the New Testament, Jesus warns the Pharisees, because they do not respond to John the Baptist, using the flute as the example of the instrument played! He doesn't tell anyone to stop the practice of using instruments, but rather to respond to it.

[SUP]1 [/SUP]Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.[SUP]12 [/SUP]From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, [SUP]14 [/SUP]and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ [SUP]19 [/SUP]The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.” Matt 11:11-19

I guess that the CoC is generally saying that they would rather have a bad song, than a good song? A bad song, no one can respond to? Because they somehow think God changed his mind about wanting to be worshipped with instruments as part of the New Testament?

Really, a psalm is meant to be played with an instrument!

"Shout for joy in the Lord, O you righteous!
Praise befits the upright.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre;
make melody to him with the harp of ten strings!
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts." Psalm 33:1-3

My thought, is that many of the people Paul was writing to in the New Testament were poor and did not have instruments. So he didn't want to embarrass them by telling them specifically to play something they didn't have! Or perhaps, he just assumed that psalms were to be played on instruments and with voices, and that everyone in that culture understood that.

God did not throw out instruments to worship in the New Testament. Arguing from the negative is a bad hermeneutic, which ignores the worship of our mighty God in the Old Testament, and those traditions being handed down to the New Testament.

Any good hermeneutic of the New Testament has to be read in light of the Old Testament. The sacrifice of animals was clearly over, as laid out in Hebrews and other verses. That does not mean that the worship of God stopped. Nor does it mean that we are to throw out everything else pleasing to God in the Old Testament. God created us to worship, that includes instruments.

 

[notuptome]

Actually the bible is big on water baptism, and the CoC worship in accordance with the bible, and that includes mechanical musical instruments (or the lack of biblical authority on mechanical musical instruments and why it is not and should not be used).

This not the thread to litigate the old argument of water baptism verses grace. Those like yourself who wish to deny themselves musical instruments in an effort to establish some form of righteousness are much the same as Israel. Worshipping God with their lips while their hearts remain far from Him.

Wow just think two hot buttons in one thread. Water baptism and music.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SolidGround]

The best argument is authority, and if you use the doctrine of Christ as your authority (the bible) you will not find the authority to use mechanical musical instruments in the Lords church, you will not find it in the pattern described in the Holy Writ.

Does a NT believer have the authority to take out a mortgage on a home? To run for a governmental office? To fly an airplane? You have separated corporate worship apart from all other activities, which is not based on NT Biblical principle, but on OT.

 

[oldhermit]

Rev 15:2 shows victorious NT believers with harps by the glassy sea. Proof enough for me of it's purity and holiness as worship.

What does this have to do with how we are commanded to worship in the assembly.

 

[JesusLives]

If it were "your church" you could have people worship how you want them to, but it is the Lords church, and from the day it began (on Pentecost) forward, you cannot show where the NT church ever used mechanical musical instruments in the worship of God.

Blond here..... I have a question for you......Are you Amish? Do you own a cell phone, TV, Car, electricity in your home? Just wondering....because these things are called progress and in and of themselves they are not really harmful but quite helpful to us today. Are we not suppose to advance? I see nothing wrong with any musical instruments cave man style or as technological as they come today. It is how one plays it and for what purpose they are playing it. Is it to glorify self or is it in praise and worship of our Creator God?

Music has been used in the Bible and is encouraged as a matter of fact. I'm not posting Bible verses as with as many posts that have been made I am sure there are a plethora of them to pick from... I admit I have not read the entire thread but your post caught my attention and needed to be addressed by me. Many instruments are mentioned in the Bible, singing, dancing, praising God.

Actually we should be praising God now instead of all this bickering over music...Praise to the Lord the Almighty King of creation, Oh my soul praise him for he is the health and salvation. All ye who hear now to His temple draw near. Join ye in glad adoration.

 

[Quake10]

Crack negatively affects the mind and can cause you to harm others and is overall very dangerous. I believe God gave us common sense too, just saying. When it comes to instruments in a church i believe it comes down to the heart, not the instruments used.

 

[Blain]

Do I need to show you the scripture that says you cannot do crack cocaine?

Listen if you cannot show me scripture that banns the use of mechanical instruments then your whole arguement against them is in vain. we use the word as our proof yes?

 

[Jabberjaw]

Rev 15:2 shows victorious NT believers with harps by the glassy sea. Proof enough for me of it's purity and holiness as worship.

You are not an angel, we are not in heaven, you were not commanded to worship like the angels anymore than you were commanded to worship like David, neither can you show the NT church worshiped like an angel (or David)

 

[Jabberjaw]

Listen if you cannot show me scripture that banns the use of mechanical instruments then your whole arguement against them is in vain. we use the word as our proof yes?

When you order a big mack, do you tell them everything you don't want on the menu so to get your big mack?

 

[tourist]

Does a NT believer have the authority to take out a mortgage on a home? To run for a governmental office? To fly an airplane? You have separated corporate worship apart from all other activities, which is not based on NT Biblical principle, but on OT.

Apparently a NT believer doesn't have the authority to do anything whatsoever unless it is mentioned somewhere in the bible (subject to outside private interpretation, of course) or they have a note from their mother.

 

[SolidGround]

What does this have to do with how we are commanded to worship in the assembly.

Because they are the assembly, and we who are in Christ ARE the assembly. Why seperate corporate worship from all other activities. That is an OT thought, with a physical rule. We are under the Spirit of that Law, which is to live our entire lives as separated (sanctified).

 

[oldhermit]

I play flute in church, which many people appreciate. I also sing, lead worship and I have led both adult and children's choirs.

The thing I have universally found with ex-Church of Christ people, is they sing off tune. If you google a song, and a CoC church is posted, the disharmony is unbelievable. I think, as a former music teacher, this is because they do not have instruments to keep them on pitch. I wonder if God appreciates a cacophony, or if is more pleasing to him to hear the beautiful harmonies of voice and instruments together? My thought is the latter.

Instruments were used in the Old Testament to worship God when the ark was brought to the city of David and David danced with joy!

"And David and all the house of Israel were celebrating before the Lord, with songs and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals." 2 Sam. 6:5

"As the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord, and she despised him in her heart." 2 Sam. 6:16

They were used to open Solomon's temple.

"The priests stood at their posts; the Levites also, with the instruments for music to the Lord that King David had made for giving thanks to the Lord—for his steadfast love endures forever—whenever David offered praises by their ministry; opposite them the priests sounded trumpets, and all Israel stood." 2 Chronicles 7:6

If instruments were good enough for David and Solomon to praise the Lord, why on earth would we throw them away?

In the New Testament, Jesus warns the Pharisees, because they do not respond to John the Baptist, using the flute as the example of the instrument played! He doesn't tell anyone to stop the practice of using instruments, but rather to respond to it.

[SUP]1 [/SUP]Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.[SUP]12 [/SUP]From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, [SUP]14 [/SUP]and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ [SUP]19 [/SUP]The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.” Matt 11:11-19

I guess that the CoC is generally saying that they would rather have a bad song, than a good song? A bad song, no one can respond to? Because they somehow think God changed his mind about wanting to be worshipped with instruments as part of the New Testament?

Really, a psalm is meant to be played with an instrument!

"Shout for joy in the Lord, O you righteous!
Praise befits the upright.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Give thanks to the Lord with the lyre;
make melody to him with the harp of ten strings!
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully on the strings, with loud shouts." Psalm 33:1-3

My thought, is that many of the people Paul was writing to in the New Testament were poor and did not have instruments. So he didn't want to embarrass them by telling them specifically to play something they didn't have! Or perhaps, he just assumed that psalms were to be played on instruments and with voices, and that everyone in that culture understood that.

God did not throw out instruments to worship in the New Testament. Arguing from the negative is a bad hermeneutic, which ignores the worship of our mighty God in the Old Testament, and those traditions being handed down to the New Testament.

Any good hermeneutic of the New Testament has to be read in light of the Old Testament. The sacrifice of animals was clearly over, as laid out in Hebrews and other verses. That does not mean that the worship of God stopped. Nor does it mean that we are to throw out everything else pleasing to God in the Old Testament. God created us to worship, that includes instruments.

Well, Angela if this is true how do you explain the fact that the instrument was rejected in worship for at least the first 1000 years of Church history?