THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[kennethcadwell]

Again in you misunderstand sin.
Read Gal 2:18 to see how one makes themselves a sinner.

I do not misunderstand sin, sin is anything that you place in your life before God.
Sin is not just trying to be justified by the law as the Galatians sin consisted of. That would be a false assumption to make ones sin of being justified by the law the only one leading to spiritual death, as the only way also to fall from grace.
For Jesus told us we are not to think that way, for what you may consider to be a minor sin will still lead you to spiritual death if not repented and asked forgiveness of it; As a person who you may consider to have done a major sin such as murder and does not repent and ask forgiveness of it.

It is not a misunderstanding of sin when Paul warns Timothy that he can become impure to sin again. Timothy is a believer in Christ, yet Paul still warns him about becoming a partaker in others sin making him impure again.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I suggest you you read my post again to see what I actually said.

you incorrectly see Heb 10:26 in terms of wrong behavior, thus you misunderstand it.

Im saying that the charge of wilfull sin, in the terms you incorrectly state, does not apply to Christians, as we continue to believe on Jesus.

It seems to me that you might be a legalist preaching righteousness by works of the law.

What I preach is that those who truly believe and love the Lord will do the things He said out of love for Him, instead of those who try to justify why they do not have to do those things any more. In which the Lord says about those who do not do what He says, as those who do not love Him and do not have their faith built on a solid foundation; Him. (Luke 6:46-49, John 14:24)

 

[Kerry]

What I preach is that those who truly believe and love the Lord will do the things He said out of love for Him, instead of those who try to justify why they do not have to do those things any more. In which the Lord says about those who do not do what He says, as those who do not love Him and do not have their faith built on a solid foundation; Him. (Luke 6:46-49, John 14:24)

Do you place your faith in keeping law or is it placed in the cross of Christ?

 

[Kerry]

I meant what is the object of you faith, where is it focused and what is the gospel, I ask that because no one on CC has been able to tell me and that bothers me more than law keepers. Perhaps maybe just maybe you can tell me.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Do you place your faith in keeping law or is it placed in the cross of Christ?

My faith is in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and by that faith comes my love and obedience to Him to follow what He taught. His teachings in the gospel books are for us of the new covenant to go by, it has nothing to do with the mosaic laws of the old covenant. His teachings consist of His moral laws that are placed in our hearts to walk as a every day way of life, and not a set of written ordinances.

Example:

If the Lord commands you to be baptized, and you say I don't have to. How is that showing Him love ?

If the Lord commands you to repent and confess your sins to be forgiven, and you say I don't have to. How is that showing Him love ?

If the Lord commands you to help others that are in need, and you say I don't have to. How does that show Him love?
Also Matthew 25 tells us what happens to those who don't help others, for He says by denying them you have denied Him and will be sent to eternal punishment, not eternal life.

Everything that the Lord said in those four gospel books are done by those who follow the two greatest commands He gave. The bible makes it clear that if your outer actions do not match your faith in Him, you have a dead faith that does not lead to eternal life.

 

[Hizikyah]

I meant what is the object of you faith, where is it focused and what is the gospel, I ask that because no one on CC has been able to tell me and that bothers me more than law keepers. Perhaps maybe just maybe you can tell me.

My faith is in Yahweh's Salvation, know as Yahshua.

Isaiah 43:11, ""I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me." NASB"

Isaiah 43:11, " I, even I, am Yahweh; and beside Me there is no savior."

Isaiah 43:11 Text Analysis
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top"]Str[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]Translit[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%"]Hebrew[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 25%"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%"]Morph[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]595 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]’ā-nō-ḵî[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אָנֹכִ֥י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]I [am][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Pro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]595 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]’ā-nō-ḵî[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אָנֹכִ֖י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"].. .. ..[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Pro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3068 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Yah-weh;[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]יְהוָ֑ה[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][am] the LORD[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]369 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]wə-’ên[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וְאֵ֥ין[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]and me no[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1107 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]mib-bal-‘ā-ḏay[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]מִבַּלְעָדַ֖י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]beside[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3467 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]mō-wō-šî-a‘.[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][there is] savior[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Isayah 53, "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He opened not His mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment, and who will declare His generation? For He was cut of from the land of the living; for the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; but He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth. Yet His bruises; willful sacrifice, pleased Yahweh; for He was put to much grief. Now He has brought the offering for sin. He will see His seed, He will prolong days, and the pleasure of Yahweh will succeed in His hands. He will see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied; by His knowledge My righteous Servant will justify many, for He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will divide Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the plunder with the strong; because He poured out His soul to death, and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."


John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

My faith is that what He says is true.

 

[Kerry]

Hiz and Kenneth not once did you mention the cross and talked about your works, is it by your works or his and for the life of me can you tell me what the gospel is?

Will God accept your works? I meant the man after Gods own heart had to kill a lamb, An innocent being to cover his sins. Or are you saying that after you have accepted Christ you must keep the law? What makes you think that you can? And what profit is there in keeping it. I am not promoting sin by no means. What saved you and set you free, the cross, then why would you place your faith in anything else? Why promote speaking hebrew, why promote legalism, did it save you and set you free? No it did not, so why change other than the change that took place at salvation, why add and heavy the yoke. Jesu said my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

Am I saying to continue in sin that grace may abound , God forbid, when we are born again, sin detest us and we don't want to do it and the power of sin is broken, it doesn't mean that we do not sin but the power that it had over us is broken and we adhere to the morality of God which is higher than law. I have already explained what this is.

The gospel is God's grace and the fact that He became a man and died in your place and took your sin and washed in His blood. by that act righteousness is a free gift, can you earn a gift. So how do i get the gift, by faith in the work of the cross and not my own.

To earn righteousness is no different than Islam, or Buddhism.

 

[Hizikyah]

Hiz and Kenneth not once did you mention the cross and talked about your works, is it by your works or his and for the life of me can you tell me what the gospel is?

Why so much focus on a piece of wood and not on Him, His blood and what He said, did, and taught?

IMO, if you were reading what I wrote fully, as it seems you are looking for a reason to accuse, but if you read fully you would have noticed EVEY SCRIPTURE WAS ABOUT YAHSHUA...... LOL do you foam at the mouth when I say we should listen to the Messiah? LOL! I know I will come off as in the wrong for saying that, but you go crazy when obedience is promoted..... You said earn righteousness, I DID NOT. If you can find a place in that post that states that I will repent.

My faith is in Yahweh's Salvation, know as Yahshua.

Isaiah 43:11, ""I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me." NASB"

Isaiah 43:11, " I, even I, am Yahweh; and beside Me there is no savior."

Isaiah 43:11 Text Analysis
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top"]Str[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]Translit[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]Hebrew[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]Morph[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]595 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]’ā-nō-ḵî[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אָנֹכִ֥י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]I [am][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Pro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]595 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]’ā-nō-ḵî[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אָנֹכִ֖י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"].. .. ..[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Pro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3068 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Yah-weh;[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]יְהוָ֑ה[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][am] the LORD[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]369 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]wə-’ên[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וְאֵ֥ין[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]and me no[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1107 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]mib-bal-‘ā-ḏay[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]מִבַּלְעָדַ֖י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]beside[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3467 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]mō-wō-šî-a‘.[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][there is] savior[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Isayah 53, "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He opened not His mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment, and who will declare His generation? For He was cut of from the land of the living; for the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; but He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth. Yet His bruises; willful sacrifice, pleased Yahweh; for He was put to much grief. Now He has brought the offering for sin. He will see His seed, He will prolong days, and the pleasure of Yahweh will succeed in His hands. He will see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied; by His knowledge My righteous Servant will justify many, for He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will divide Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the plunder with the strong; because He poured out His soul to death, and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."


John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

My faith is that what He says is true.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Hiz and Kenneth not once did you mention the cross and talked about your works, is it by your works or his and for the life of me can you tell me what the gospel is?

Will God accept your works? I meant the man after Gods own heart had to kill a lamb, An innocent being to cover his sins. Or are you saying that after you have accepted Christ you must keep the law? What makes you think that you can? And what profit is there in keeping it. I am not promoting sin by no means. What saved you and set you free, the cross, then why would you place your faith in anything else? Why promote speaking hebrew, why promote legalism, did it save you and set you free? No it did not, so why change other than the change that took place at salvation, why add and heavy the yoke. Jesu said my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

Am I saying to continue in sin that grace may abound , God forbid, when we are born again, sin detest us and we don't want to do it and the power of sin is broken, it doesn't mean that we do not sin but the power that it had over us is broken and we adhere to the morality of God which is higher than law. I have already explained what this is.

The gospel is God's grace and the fact that He became a man and died in your place and took your sin and washed in His blood. by that act righteousness is a free gift, can you earn a gift. So how do i get the gift, by faith in the work of the cross and not my own.

To earn righteousness is no different than Islam, or Buddhism.

You can try and twist what we say all you want, but here is the thing;
Our Lord Jesus died on the cross for the only perfect sacrifice that could give forgiveness of sins, and in order to receive His blood sacrifice to cover your sins you have to repent of them, confess them for that forgiveness, and be baptized to receive that forgiveness. Jesus commanded all three of those in Luke 13:3, Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16, Matthew 10:32-33.

The apostles confirmed these commands;

Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.



2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 Corinthians 10:1-2
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea


James 5:16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.


[h=1]Hebrews 10:19-25[/h][h=3]Hold Fast Your Confession[/h]19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. (Baptism)

23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promisedis faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

 

[Mitspa]

I know that by following the two greatest commandments that He gave us to follow fulfills that law.
What is hard to understand is why those who say they are in Christ, continue to say His 3 1/2 years of His earthly ministry was done away with or fulfilled at the cross. That is fallacy as His instructions were to all of us under the new covenant. If they were not to still be followed and obeyed then He would not have told the Apostles to go out and teach us to do just that, to observe/obey all that He commanded. This was His last instructions given to the Apostles in Matthew, to show that all of His teachings applied to all under the new covenant.

Ok you want to play this game ..instead of having an honest discussion Do you even keep the first commandment? To love the Lord with ALL YOUR HEART and ALL your MInd? All the time? No your a breaker of the law...not a keeper of the law ...not even the two you are trying to teach here apart from them being fulfilled in Christ.

 

[Kerry]

UMM brother I didn't twist anything, First of all you said we must be baptised (works) the only apostle that was baptised according to scripture was Saul\Paul. You will not find that any of the twelve including Judas replacement being baptised. You are still looking to works and not the cross.
His blood covers sin? a lamb could do that

I'm not against you I am for you and you post like a man that has faith in the cross, however you are adding things to it. You are right by Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Where is mans works only faith and faith in what
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. Yes repentance

s Did moses baptiste or were thy taught in the order of Moses.

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

How does one become righteous?

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.(Baptism)

was it baptism or by the blood?

 

[Hizikyah]

Hiz and Kenneth not once did you mention the cross and talked about your works, is it by your works or his and for the life of me can you tell me what the gospel is?

Will God accept your works? I meant the man after Gods own heart had to kill a lamb, An innocent being to cover his sins. Or are you saying that after you have accepted Christ you must keep the law? What makes you think that you can? And what profit is there in keeping it. I am not promoting sin by no means. What saved you and set you free, the cross, then why would you place your faith in anything else? Why promote speaking hebrew, why promote legalism, did it save you and set you free? No it did not, so why change other than the change that took place at salvation, why add and heavy the yoke. Jesu said my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

Am I saying to continue in sin that grace may abound , God forbid, when we are born again, sin detest us and we don't want to do it and the power of sin is broken, it doesn't mean that we do not sin but the power that it had over us is broken and we adhere to the morality of God which is higher than law. I have already explained what this is.

The gospel is God's grace and the fact that He became a man and died in your place and took your sin and washed in His blood. by that act righteousness is a free gift, can you earn a gift. So how do i get the gift, by faith in the work of the cross and not my own.

To earn righteousness is no different than Islam, or Buddhism.

Hold on.....Rewind....

So the only personal words I wrote were,
"My faith is in Yahweh's Salvation, know as Yahshua." and "My faith is that what He says is true."

So if you found reason to accuse me of error from that post, then it seems to me you issue is not with me, but with Scripture......selah

My faith is in Yahweh's Salvation, know as Yahshua.

Isaiah 43:11, ""I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me." NASB"

Isaiah 43:11, " I, even I, am Yahweh; and beside Me there is no savior."

Isaiah 43:11 Text Analysis
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top"]Str[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]Translit[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]Hebrew[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 25%"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%"]Morph[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]595 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]’ā-nō-ḵî[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אָנֹכִ֥י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]I [am][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Pro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]595 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]’ā-nō-ḵî[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אָנֹכִ֖י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"].. .. ..[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Pro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3068 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Yah-weh;[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]יְהוָ֑ה[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][am] the LORD[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]369 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]wə-’ên[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וְאֵ֥ין[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]and me no[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prt[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1107 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]mib-bal-‘ā-ḏay[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]מִבַּלְעָדַ֖י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]beside[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3467 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]mō-wō-šî-a‘.[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][there is] savior[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Isayah 53, "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He opened not His mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment, and who will declare His generation? For He was cut of from the land of the living; for the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; but He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth. Yet His bruises; willful sacrifice, pleased Yahweh; for He was put to much grief. Now He has brought the offering for sin. He will see His seed, He will prolong days, and the pleasure of Yahweh will succeed in His hands. He will see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied; by His knowledge My righteous Servant will justify many, for He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will divide Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the plunder with the strong; because He poured out His soul to death, and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."


John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

My faith is that what He says is true.

 

[Kerry]

But HiZ you are preaching and teaching faith in your works and not in the cross of Christ, I know you love God and seeking further closeness with Him about that I do not doubt. But, the only way to seek a closer walk is by placing your faith in the work of the cross. Do I think that you believe the cross, yes I do. I also feel the same way with Kenneth. There is no doubt that y'all love God and are trying your best to live for Him, I do not question that and let me be accursed if I tell you different.

I am a cross preacher, because I have found that the only thing that works is the cross. I meant God will not accept anything else. So placing faith in works of the flesh will only bring failure and yes water baptism is a work of the flesh and yes speaking Hebrew is a work of the flesh, I meant they spoke Hebrew and Jesus still had to die on the cross to set you free. Yes. they kept law and yet still Jesus had to die on a cross to set you free. So why go back to what didn't work and proclaim it to work.

You both focus on things other than what set you free. I;m sorry but you both and most are stuck on flesh and not the Spirit. yet who am I to teach you, I fail and fall, mostly because I rely on myself and I must be constantly reminded of the cross and when My faith is placed in the cross, then it works like a well oiled machine and the devil will fight, but when I hold up the blood of the Lamb, he can do nothing, but if I hold what I do, he ravishes me.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ok you want to play this game ..instead of having an honest discussion Do you even keep the first commandment? To love the Lord with ALL YOUR HEART and ALL your MInd? All the time? No your a breaker of the law...not a keeper of the law ...not even the two you are trying to teach here apart from them being fulfilled in Christ.

There you go with trying to twist things again, and try to make sin acceptable in your eyes by pretty much saying we can not keep it so why should we even try. I have answered this question of yours many of times.

No we do backslide from time to time, but how we make up for that sin we committed to still show our love for Him is through confessing that sin to Him and asking for forgiveness of it. This does not mean that we can just go on and sin freely all we want in the flesh, because it is not imputed on believers any more, which is false thinking.
Even Paul says, " Certainly Not. "

Paul knew the dangers of sin still being part of a believers life, and gave many warnings to believers to eliminate them from their life. He gave list after list of things that if you still continue or return to do those things in your life, you are not headed to eternal life. Knowing also that eliminating them all is hard to do, he also said that a believer must continue to persevere and continue to walk accordingly to what Christ said will get eternal life.

Romans 2:6-10


Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

 

[Hizikyah]

But HiZ you are preaching and teaching faith in your works and not in the cross of Christ, I know you love God and seeking further closeness with Him about that I do not doubt. But, the only way to seek a closer walk is by placing your faith in the work of the cross. Do I think that you believe the cross, yes I do. I also feel the same way with Kenneth. There is no doubt that y'all love God and are trying your best to live for Him, I do not question that and let me be accursed if I tell you different.

I am a cross preacher, because I have found that the only thing that works is the cross. I meant God will not accept anything else. So placing faith in works of the flesh will only bring failure and yes water baptism is a work of the flesh and yes speaking Hebrew is a work of the flesh, I meant they spoke Hebrew and Jesus still had to die on the cross to set you free. Yes. they kept law and yet still Jesus had to die on a cross to set you free. So why go back to what didn't work and proclaim it to work.

You both focus on things other than what set you free. I;m sorry but you both and most are stuck on flesh and not the Spirit. yet who am I to teach you, I fail and fall, mostly because I rely on myself and I must be constantly reminded of the cross and when My faith is placed in the cross, then it works like a well oiled machine and the devil will fight, but when I hold up the blood of the Lamb, he can do nothing, but if I hold what I do, he ravishes me.

These words are not mine, but rather His.

Isaiah 43:11

Isayah 53

John 5:24

John 12:48

Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Revelation 22:12-15

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

If you think John 12:48 means your justified by works, you need to read this:

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

 

[kennethcadwell]

UMM brother I didn't twist anything, First of all you said we must be baptised (works) the only apostle that was baptised according to scripture was Saul\Paul. You will not find that any of the twelve including Judas replacement being baptised. You are still looking to works and not the cross.
His blood covers sin? a lamb could do that

I'm not against you I am for you and you post like a man that has faith in the cross, however you are adding things to it. You are right by Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Where is mans works only faith and faith in what
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. Yes repentance

s Did moses baptiste or were thy taught in the order of Moses.

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

How does one become righteous?

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.(Baptism)

was it baptism or by the blood?

Wrong, the other apostles were baptized.

[h=1]John 3:22-23[/h]22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.


Plus in acts it shows that they baptized all the others that came to be disciples, so Matthias would have been baptized already before being named as an Apostle.

 

[Mitspa]

There you go with trying to twist things again, and try to make sin acceptable in your eyes by pretty much saying we can not keep it so why should we even try. I have answered this question of yours many of times.

No we do backslide from time to time, but how we make up for that sin we committed to still show our love for Him is through confessing that sin to Him and asking for forgiveness of it. This does not mean that we can just go on and sin freely all we want in the flesh, because it is not imputed on believers any more, which is false thinking.
Even Paul says, " Certainly Not. "

Paul knew the dangers of sin still being part of a believers life, and gave many warnings to believers to eliminate them from their life. He gave list after list of things that if you still continue or return to do those things in your life, you are not headed to eternal life. Knowing also that eliminating them all is hard to do, he also said that a believer must continue to persevere and continue to walk accordingly to what Christ said will get eternal life.

Romans 2:6-10


Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

No im trying to show you that you are not keeping what you are preaching...no one can keep the law by the written code! God made it to show us our sin that we don't love God with ALL our hearts and minds...but you guys pretend you are keeping it when its clear your not...


Ro 2:1 ¶ Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

 

[Hizikyah]

No im trying to show you that you are not keeping what you are preaching...no one can keep the law by the written code! God made it to show us our sin that we don't love God with ALL our hearts and minds...but you guys pretend you are keeping it when its clear your not...


Ro 2:1 ¶ Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

What you count as keeping the Law and what Scripture counts as keeping the Law are 2 different things. I believe this MAY be a root for your error, and that you seem to ONLY quote Paul.

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."

This statement is obviously only concerning those who seek Yah.

If we sin and do not confess, HIS LAW IS NOT IN US.

If we sin and do confess, HIS LAW IS IN US.

The next question is what is sin?

Romans 4:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."


1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Hizikyah]

Mitspa can you prove your no Law doctrine from anyone outside of Paul? What happened to 2 or 3 witnesses?

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

 

[Kerry]

Wrong, the other apostles were baptized.

John 3:22-23

22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.


Plus in acts it shows that they baptized all the others that came to be disciples, so Matthias would have been baptized already before being named as an Apostle.

They were baptising others and not themselves and when was the thief on the cross baptised?over and over again it is stated in the NT that whosoever shall believe in the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved, with no water mentioned. I meant do you carry a bucket of water to the hospital to pray for the sick, if you don't then you are a hypocrite.