suicide?

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Kathleen

Kathleen

Senior Member
#61
Oct 13, 2009
3,570
6
38
#61
put it this way:
its the 9/11 twin towers. you are stuck in the building on floor 80.
the you can feel the heat of the fire on you...you dont want to die a painful way like burning to death
you jump out of the building

- i think that a person, if saved, wouldnt go to hell for that
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#62
#62
Kath: didn't you say earlier people do go to hell for suicide? or am I mixing stuff up?
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#64
#64
kay, hot cunfused by everything written about this everywhere, sorry
 
C

Cako53

Guest
#66
#66
I believe that that is totally different sitaution though Kathleen. Suicide itself is an extrordinarly selfish act. The situation you made up, is a lot different seeing as your death is now inevitable.
 
Kathleen

Kathleen

Senior Member
#67
Oct 13, 2009
3,570
6
38
#67
not neccisarily...there is still a chance of being saved - many people, not the majority thou, were saced from floors 79 to 82.
they cant tell they wernt going to be saved.
as i said it was just a sinario...
 
C

Cako53

Guest
#68
#68
Kathleen said:
not neccisarily...there is still a chance of being saved - many people, not the majority thou, were saced from floors 79 to 82.
they cant tell they wernt going to be saved.
as i said it was just a sinario...
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I honestly don't think you can even try to judge their actions, I personally know that I would have no clue what to do in that situation other than pray. We could also think of God's peace. There were lots of cases in the bible where God's peace took away pain. But I think we are getting quite off topic here.
 
haley4jesus

haley4jesus

Junior Member
#69
Jul 28, 2009
28
0
0
#69
Anymore, since times have changed so much anyway.. It is ok.. create your own whole new set of commandments. Thou Shalt kill sounds about right.
I mean after all, God's word has expired right? It is amost 2010.. who needs commandments anymore?
 
C

Cako53

Guest
#70
#70
haley4jesus said:
Anymore, since times have changed so much anyway.. It is ok.. create your own whole new set of commandments. Thou Shalt kill sounds about right.
I mean after all, God's word has expired right? It is amost 2010.. who needs commandments anymore?
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I enjoyed the sarcasm :) but it does arise an interesting question. If we die before we have asked forgiveness of a sin, do we go to hell for that? Keep in mind that we as humans sin all the time.
 
M

Maddog

Guest
#71
#71
Cako53 said:
I believe that that is totally different sitaution though Kathleen. Suicide itself is an extrordinarly selfish act. The situation you made up, is a lot different seeing as your death is now inevitable.
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Death is inevitable anyway...
 
M

Maddog

Guest
#72
#72
Cako53 said:
I do understand what you are saying, but I don't believe this has put us in a disagreement. has it? :S
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Not necessarily. I was just suggesting that even without a last-minute-slashed-jugular-blood-everywhere repentance, his soul may still be saved.
 
T

tryingtofindhim

Guest
#74
#74
Cako53 said:
I would have to say hell, but I think it would be possible to still go to heaven, let me explain. I believe that you can lose your salvation, if you fall away from God. So if you kill yourself you have just commited murder, and therefor sinned and seperated yourself. When I was in a depression I thought about it a lot. But the thing is I'm sure if you kill yourself, but are still alive, than you will go to heaven. For instance, when your jugular is cut, you have 30 some seconds until you dies of blood loss. SO if you truly mean your repentance than you will go to heaven.
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You're one of those people who thinks you can lose your salvation? Come on the Bible clearly says you can't. There are so many men of God who committed suicide and are in heaven.
 
M

Maddog

Guest
#75
#75
tryingtofindhim said:
You're one of those people who thinks you can lose your salvation? Come on the Bible clearly says you can't. There are so many men of God who committed suicide and are in heaven.
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I'll avoid the soteriological argument for now. But who has topped themselves that you know for definite are in heaven?
 
T

tryingtofindhim

Guest
#76
#76
Cako53 said:
I believe that that is totally different sitaution though Kathleen. Suicide itself is an extrordinarly selfish act. The situation you made up, is a lot different seeing as your death is now inevitable.
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Suicide in almost all cases is not selfish, but a mental health situation. I mean most people who commit suicide are depressed, cut, have eating disorders, etc. (not all but one of those at least).
 
C

Cako53

Guest
#77
#77
tryingtofindhim said:
You're one of those people who thinks you can lose your salvation? Come on the Bible clearly says you can't. There are so many men of God who committed suicide and are in heaven.
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give me some verses to prove it. Seriosuly, because it is not true, you can lose your salvation.
tryingtofindhim said:
Suicide in almost all cases is not selfish, but a mental health situation. I mean most people who commit suicide are depressed, cut, have eating disorders, etc. (not all but one of those at least).
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It doesn't matter what the state is, in MOST cases it is a selfish thing. There is help available out there even for the mentaly ill. I have seen a few people I know die from suicide, and every single case was selfish. One was so deep into drugs, that he didn't want to deal with the money he owed that he killed himself. Please explain to me how this isn't selfish? Another one was depressed and said that he "couldn't go on". Please explain to me how this is not a selfish act, to leave your family to cope with the crap that you just put them through.
 
T

tryingtofindhim

Guest
#78
#78
Cako53 said:
give me some verses to prove it. Seriosuly, because it is not true, you can lose your salvation.

It doesn't matter what the state is, in MOST cases it is a selfish thing. There is help available out there even for the mentaly ill. I have seen a few people I know die from suicide, and every single case was selfish. One was so deep into drugs, that he didn't want to deal with the money he owed that he killed himself. Please explain to me how this isn't selfish? Another one was depressed and said that he "couldn't go on". Please explain to me how this is not a selfish act, to leave your family to cope with the crap that you just put them through.
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I'm in the process of collecting verses.
For your second part. It's hard to get help if your parents don't approve or your parents can't know what you are going through. What you just said was a selfish situation in a way, but if you think about it drugs do mess up your mind. Did the other depressed on tell you what was going on? If you don't know what was going on you can't say much about the situation. You also shouldn't judge whether somethings selfish or not. You don't know what people go through.
 
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tryingtofindhim

Guest
#79
#79
Hebrews 13:5- he'll never leave you or forsake you
Ephesians 1:13- In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
John 11:26-And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Salvation is a gift. If you lose salvation that means you had to earn it which you can't/didn't.
 
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Cako53

Guest
#80
#80
tryingtofindhim said:
I'm in the process of collecting verses.
For your second part. It's hard to get help if your parents don't approve or your parents can't know what you are going through. What you just said was a selfish situation in a way, but if you think about it drugs do mess up your mind. Did the other depressed on tell you what was going on? If you don't know what was going on you can't say much about the situation. You also shouldn't judge whether somethings selfish or not. You don't know what people go through.
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Well it's also hard for your parents to know if you don't tell them. I know from first hand experiances that drugs do mess with your brain, but he knew exactly what he was doing when he killed himself, he planned it out, it wasn't like an accident or something. Yes, the other one, was a friend of mine, and his parents just went through a divorce, and that was his reasoning behind it. You can't look at suicide and say it is not selfish. Having one of your close friends commit suicide rips your heart, it damages that friendship forever. It is not something nice to leave your family and friends to cope with.
 
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