It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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...and where in Mt 1:21 does it say Jesus shall unconditionally save His people?
You cannot read in conditions because contracts don't say "unconditionally."
If you and some guy agree that you will deliver him a dozen eggs & he will pay you $2, he cannot refuse to pay because the agreement doesn't say "unconditionlly give you $2." You cannot add conditions to a contract on the grounds that the contract fails to say unconditional.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.


You may not add conditions.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Thou still iz not understanding the main issue!

We iz talkin' about one who understands all about God's free gift of grace-faith
unto eternal life, and many etcs.

And we iz talkin' about this same one who chooses to walk away
... not to return to the law,
butski to return to the sin.
Habitual sin, to be more precise.


Sorry, the one duck you had all lined up in a row done did flew da duck coop!
Well im not sure what your talking about ? Lots of folks walk away from religion and dead religious groups....but the only biblical way to "fall from grace" is to return to law of Moses. Now is it possible that someone decides they don't want or need Gods grace ...yea legalist do it everyday! But I cant think why anyone who knows the true grace of God would walk away...many probably are taught alot of nonsense like we see here on this forum (folks like you) and give up trying to walk a life of faith. But a believer is saved by grace through faith...as long as they continue in that truth they cannot be lost.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Mitspa, baby, got any ducks in a row yet?
Gotta start somewhere ... no better place than to see that OSAS is from Satan.


God's promises are not those of Satan.

I give them eternal life & they shall never perish.

satan does oppose trusting the Lord to do what He promises.

The doctrine is not OSAS, but OSS = once saved, saved:

That is the rocket science conclusion that if a man is saved, why he is saved!!!

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Apparently some need reminding of the following:


Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.

Rom 4:16

For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, evento them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave useternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.


Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Well again its funny how some demand you "doubt" salvation to be saved by "faith".... No faith believes and doubts not!
 
Mar 12, 2014
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You cannot read in conditions because contracts don't say "unconditionally."
If you and some guy agree that you will deliver him a dozen eggs & he will pay you $2, he cannot refuse to pay because the agreement doesn't say "unconditionlly give you $2." You cannot add conditions to a contract on the grounds that the contract fails to say unconditional.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.


You may not add conditions.
It's YOU that is ADDING to the verse the idea Jesus saves unconditionally when the verse does not say such.
When one learns what Jesus said about being saved, Jesus made salvation conditional upon one believing, Jn 8:24; repenting, Lk 13:3,5; confessing, Mt 10:32.3 and being baptized, Mk 16:16.
You cannot remove this conditions.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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[/COLOR]
God's promises are not those of Satan.

I give them eternal life & they shall never perish.

satan does oppose trusting the Lord to do what He promises.

The doctrine is not OSAS, but OSS = once saved, saved:

That is the rocket science conclusion that if a man is saved, why he is saved!!!

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.
You again are ADDING the idea of eternal security to Jn 10:28.

Verse 27 goes with verse 28 and tells us who God holds in His hand and why "they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand"...and it has nothing to do with man-made idea of eternal security.


Phil 1:5 goes with verse 6 and tells us why Paul was confident God would continue that goof work in them...and it has nothing to do with the man-made theology of eternal security.
 
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ChristIsGod

Guest
Atwood - do you see UNconditional eternal security differently than you see eternal security?

That question just popped into my head. Anyone else can answer that as well and I'd say, Thanks!

It's like a poll question I guess but not so that I will reply back at all - just curious while we're on the subject and thought I'd throw it out now while that poll question is on my mind.

Thanks!!
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
It's YOU that is ADDING to the verse the idea Jesus saves unconditionally when the verse does not say such.
When one learns what Jesus said about being saved, Jesus made salvation conditional upon one believing, Jn 8:24; repenting, Lk 13:3,5; confessing, Mt 10:32.3 and being baptized, Mk 16:16.
You cannot remove this conditions.

Do not forget the forgiving of others as well !!! Matthew 6:14-15
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Atwood - do you see UNconditional eternal security differently than you see eternal security?

That question just popped into my head. Anyone else can answer that as well and I'd say, Thanks!

It's like a poll question I guess but not so that I will reply back at all - just curious while we're on the subject and thought I'd throw it out now while that poll question is on my mind.

Thanks!!
The idea of eternal security requires salvation be UNconditional.

And if salvation were unconditional it would not matter what a Christian does whether he lie, steals, etc.

If anyone argues it DOES make a difference in what a Christian does, then they are making salvation conditional upon what that Christian does, that the Christian who lies, steals etc will be lost.

And if it's argued if a Christian lies, steals etc was never really saved to begin with as shown by his sinning (lying, stealing), then what Christian was ever really saved to begin with for all Christians do commit some kind of sin from time to time?


And if it's argued that if one who believed for many years yet loses faith and quits believing that he never really believed but only had a fake belief, can it be argued that if I played in 9 football games and quit before the last game of the season was played, that I was never really a player who never really played in a game?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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48
The idea of eternal security requires salvation be UNconditional.
The idea of eternal security requires that salvation be salvation! Not just a shot at it. It requires that God's word be true.

Now Christ will save you, or you will NOT BE SAVED!

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for

HE SHALL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Atwood - do you see UNconditional eternal security differently than you see eternal security?
What I see is unconditional garbage. Song & dance, cantaleta.

Then I see God's Word:

Believe on the Lord Jesus,
& thou SHALT BE SAVED.

NEVER PERISH.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
It's YOU that is ADDING to the verse the idea Jesus saves unconditionally when the verse does not say such.
When one learns what Jesus said about being saved, Jesus made salvation conditional upon one believing, Jn 8:24; repenting, Lk 13:3,5; confessing, Mt 10:32.3 and being baptized, Mk 16:16.
You cannot remove this conditions.
It is you who are adding the word "unconditional." Just take Him at His word.

believe on the Lord Jesus & thou shalt be saved.

Seabass seems hopeless, but for the sake of any audience, the only responsibility ever put on man for salvation is believe, trust, depend upon the Savior -- have faith. There is no grocery list of hoops to jump through. Repent = change mind from non-belief to belief.
confess = homologeo. Homo = same; log = saying. You must agree with God, say the same as He about Christ, that He is YHWH become man in the flesh, have Him correctly defined when you trust Him as Savior. Water never saves. Spirit baptism is salvific, but it is not something a man does, but something done to Him. Man has one thing to do BELIEVE.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

[All them who believer, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]

for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]


1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
The word says,
"I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish."

You reckon Seabass will argue: "But it don't say "on Friday," so if a Friday comes around they may perish on Friday??? Or will he argue that salvation is not a gift because it says "I give them," but not, "I give them as a gift"???

Will he argue that Baal might also be a savior & give eternal life, because it doesn't say, "I and no one else" ???
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
You reckon someone will argue how eternal security isn't eternal security unless you say "unconditional eternal security" -- but then someone else will say, hold on thar, that ain't good nuff, you gots to say "unconditional unconditional eternal security," why you just might get roasted on unconditional eternal security, so you either must get you asbestos clothes or have "unconditional unconditional eternal security," for if you only have unconditional eternal security, you might get roasted.

But hold on there -- we need a canard about how eternal isn't good enough, it gots to be everlasting eternal security, in fact, unconditional, guaranteed, eternal, everlasting, perpetual secure security.

Now having security ain't no good if it ain't secure security, cause if your security is insecure, man you gots big problems.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Well im not sure what your talking about ? Lots of folks walk away from religion and dead religious groups....but the only biblical way to "fall from grace" is to return to law of Moses. Now is it possible that someone decides they don't want or need Gods grace ...yea legalist do it everyday! But I cant think why anyone who knows the true grace of God would walk away...many probably are taught alot of nonsense like we see here on this forum (folks like you) and give up trying to walk a life of faith. But a believer is saved by grace through faith...as long as they continue in that truth they cannot be lost.
that is a myopic view of the scripture...
.but the only biblical way to "fall from grace" is to return to law of Moses.
we see in vs 5 the implication that those who do not wait through the Spirit for the hope of righteousness by faith are also fallen from grace
vs 6 shows what is of value in Christ...(faith which worketh by love).I suppose if you don't have those abiding in you,one would be fallen from grace
vs 7 shows if you do not obey the truth you are fallen from grace
Galatians 5:3-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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Well im not sure what your talking about ? Lots of folks walk away from religion and dead religious groups....but the only biblical way to "fall from grace" is to return to law of Moses. Now is it possible that someone decides they don't want or need Gods grace ...yea legalist do it everyday! But I cant think why anyone who knows the true grace of God would walk away...many probably are taught alot of nonsense like we see here on this forum (folks like you) and give up trying to walk a life of faith. But a believer is saved by grace through faith...as long as they continue in that truth they cannot be lost.
that is a myopic view of the scripture...
we see in vs 5 the implication that those who do not wait through the Spirit for the hope of righteousness by faith are also fallen from grace
vs 6 shows what is of value in Christ...(faith which worketh by love).I suppose if you don't have those abiding in you,one would be fallen from grace
vs 7 shows if you do not obey the truth you are fallen from grace
Galatians 5:3-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
I ask both of you and any who would like to answer;

So did Paul destroy Timothy's chance at salvation when he got him circumcised?

(Galatians 5:2, "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

Acts 16:3, "Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.")

and

Is Paul's chance at salvation destroyed because he followed the Law?

(Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law.")
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
that is a myopic view of the scripture...
we see in vs 5 the implication that those who do not wait through the Spirit for the hope of righteousness by faith are also fallen from grace
vs 6 shows what is of value in Christ...(faith which worketh by love).I suppose if you don't have those abiding in you,one would be fallen from grace
vs 7 shows if you do not obey the truth you are fallen from grace
Galatians 5:3-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
No that's taking all scripture into account ...the law, its purpose and effect and the gospel and the doctrines of righteousness by faith. With the many warnings throughout the New Testament, made to those who turn from faith back to the law of Moses..."FOR THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH"
 
Mar 12, 2014
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The idea of eternal security requires that salvation be salvation! Not just a shot at it. It requires that God's word be true.

Now Christ will save you, or you will NOT BE SAVED!

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for

HE SHALL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS.
You've yet to show where God's word says Christ will save His people unconditionally.
You're still adding that idea to the verse.