THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Mitspa]

Leaven represents hypocrisy ...which is those who teach the law but do not keep it.

Mt 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Lu 12:1 ¶ In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

There are two leavens that we are warned of in the New Testament ...hypocrisy and wickedness...you cannot help anyone remove wickedness through hypocrisy.

 

[Hizikyah]

Leaven represents hypocrisy ...which is those who teach the law but do not keep it.

Mt 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Lu 12:1 ¶ In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Thank you for pointing out that Scripture to me, I did not consider that when I spoke.

But in the same way the Pharisees did not teach the Law of the Most High, but taught their own law;

Mark 7:
3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders.

4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.)

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?

6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men!

9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.

 

[Hizikyah]

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

 

[Mitspa]

Hypocrisy is teaching a judging others by a biblical standard you do not keep....anyone who judges others by the law of Moses is in truth a hypocrite.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Hizikyah]

Hypocrisy is teaching a judging others by a biblical standard you do not keep....anyone who judges others by the law of Moses is in truth a hypocrite.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Are these people justified by Law? Is there a way to obey the Law without trying to being justified by it?

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah..."

Revelation 12:17, "Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus..."

 

[Hizikyah]

1 John 1&2;
5This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

7Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard. 8At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. 9Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. 10Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. 11But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Unless...

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

 

[Hizikyah]

1 John 1&2;
8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

3And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

7Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning.

Unless...

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

1 John 3:4

New International Version
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

New Living Translation
Everyone who sins is breaking God's law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God.

English Standard Version
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

New American Standard Bible
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

King James Bible
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Mitspa]

Are these people justified by Law? Is there a way to obey the Law without trying to being justified by it?

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah..."

Revelation 12:17, "Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus..."

Now you have a chance to enter into the truth...What part of the Lords Commandment to love as He has loved us does not fulfill all that Moses commanded?

 

[Mitspa]

No one can keep any commandment unless they have Gods love....because its only fulfilled in love! You can "not steal" "not cheat" not lie" ...all you want but it does not keep or fulfill the law of Moses....only when you love like God loves have you made any progress toward profit in the Kingdom of God......"Nothing profits but faith working by love"

 

[Hizikyah]

Now you have a chance to enter into the truth...What part of the Lords Commandment to love as He has loved us does not fulfill all that Moses commanded?

Only when the Law of Yahweh is looked at through the carnal mind does it not fulfill love.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

That is why the Savior said this:

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

 

[Mitspa]

Only when the Law of Yahweh is looked at through the carnal mind does it not fulfill love.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

That is why the Savior said this:

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

No you got it backwards....because you don't steal...that does not mean you love others....but if you love others you will for sure not steal and will in fact look to give if there is a need.

 

[Hizikyah]

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

entole = Command, Law

1 John 5:2-3[SUP], "[/SUP]This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. [SUP]3[/SUP]In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,"

Can it be any clearer?

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

The opposition to Yahweh's instructions was abolished, not the Law it's self.

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

It is impossible to have HIS LAW written on your heart if you are in oppisition (enmity) to it, so the ENMITY was abolished.

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Again:

"I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts"


I guess some still have enmity (a hatred and opposition to) His Law.....

 

[Hizikyah]

No you got it backwards....because you don't steal...that does not mean you love others....but if you love others you will for sure not steal and will in fact look to give if there is a need.

Chicken and the egg...in reality it is the Most High who guides.

Ohh and seems your statement is in oppisition to what the Savior says:

And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

because LAWLESSNESS love will grow cold..... because of no Law....love will grow cold....because they will not hear and submit to His Law....love will grow cold.....And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

 

[Mitspa]

Chicken and the egg...in reality it is the Most High who guides.

Ohh and seems your statement is in oppisition to what the Savior says:

And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

because LAWLESSNESS love will grow cold..... because of no Law....love will grow cold....because they will not hear and submit to His Law....love will grow cold.....And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

No not chicken and the egg....God is love and only those who love are His Children....and only those who love are keeping His Commandments....not those who pretend to justify themselves by the written code of the law.

 

[Hizikyah]

No not chicken and the egg....God is love and only those who love are His Children....and only those who love are keeping His Commandments....not those who pretend to justify themselves by the written code of the law.

Don't worry buggleboo! Every man will receive exactly what he deserves. (ohh and remeber this is Scripture, so if you want to accuse one of being justified by works, you better take that up with Him)

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”

 

[Hizikyah]

will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts

 

[Mitspa]

Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Ga 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[Hizikyah]

Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Ga 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

1 Corinthians 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made void."

Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

 

[kennethcadwell]

Now you have a chance to enter into the truth...What part of the Lords Commandment to love as He has loved us does not fulfill all that Moses commanded?

Because by following the two greatest commandments fulfills the rest, because the context is that by walking in love you would not want to break any of the rest of His commandments. You would keep them and walk in them out of love for Him.
This is not saying they were done away with, as they were written in our hearts to walk in as an everyday way of life and not a set of ordinances.
If they were completely done away with, then Paul would not of taught upholding the commandments and all the rest that the Lord taught. Going by a Paulinian gospel that says that Paul either changed or did away with things that the Lord taught is a false doctrine.........

 

[Mitspa]

Because by following the two greatest commandments fulfills the rest, because the context is that by walking in love you would not want to break any of the rest of His commandments. You would keep them and walk in them out of love for Him.
This is not saying they were done away with, as they were written in our hearts to walk in as an everyday way of life and not a set of ordinances.
If they were completely done away with, then Paul would not of taught upholding the commandments and all the rest that the Lord taught. Going by a Paulinian gospel that says that Paul either changed or did away with things that the Lord taught is a false doctrine.........

Well if your under Moses...keep all the Commandments ...if you under Christ Keep His Commandment....which is the only way to fulfill what the law demanded.