It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Mar 12, 2014
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Again you use a unbiblical term ...that you are trying to add to the truth of Gods Word...I reject any attempt to add words to God Word.... Now if you want to discuss the issue in terms of what is written? ...I will be glad to do that :)
I used nothing unbiblical.....must one believe or not to be saved?

If one must believe to be saved then that makes belief a condition to being saved or belief is a term that must be met to be saved.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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I ask both of you and any who would like to answer;

So did Paul destroy Timothy's chance at salvation when he got him circumcised?

(Galatians 5:2, "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

Acts 16:3, "Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.")

and

Is Paul's chance at salvation destroyed because he followed the Law?

(Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law.")
but you know If he was not circumcised and follow the purification the Jews would debar him from entering the synagogue...it had nothing to do with his faith or salvation...it was for the opportunity to preach Christ in the synagogue......as opposed to those who were saying you needed to be circumcised to be in Christ as a requirement for salvation....
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
I used nothing unbiblical.....must one believe or not to be saved?

If one must believe to be saved then that makes belief a condition to being saved or belief is a term that must be met to be saved.
Right which goes back to my original point on this thread that "doubting" salvation is not faith! Those who demand that others doubt to be saved by faith...don't even understand what they are saying!
 
Mar 28, 2014
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If He saves them from their "sins" that sounds like the only condition that matters...right? One is only condemned by their sins...if He saves them from that condition....what else is left?
and we know sins are sins because of the law ...He saves us by removing us from penalty the law...by grace through faith.... by repentance,death at baptism , remission of sins and the gift of the HS....not by wishful thinking....
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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but you know If he was not circumcised and follow the purification the Jews would debar him from entering the synagogue...it had nothing to do with his faith or salvation...it was for the opportunity to preach Christ in the synagogue......as opposed to those who were saying you needed to be circumcised to be in Christ as a requirement for salvation....
Ty for the reply, and I think what you say is very likely, but I personally don't know that Scripture explains, but that didn't really answer my questions, and they may even be near rhetorical questions, but I want to ask because it is an important/interesting principle IMO.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
and we know sins are sins because of the law ...He saves us by removing us from penalty the law...by grace through faith.... by repentance,death at baptism , remission of sins and the gift of the HS....not by wishful thinking....
Well maybe faith seems like "wishful" thinking to you....but those who have faith we know its the power of God. And again if someone thinks you must doubt salvation to be saved by faith....that just silly and unbiblical.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Well maybe faith seems like "wishful" thinking to you....but those who have faith we know its the power of God. And again if someone thinks you must doubt salvation to be saved by faith....that just silly and unbiblical.
notice by grace through faith ....not by wishful thinking...and where do you get the idea of doubt salvation to be saved by faith?...I do wish you would read and understand...
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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A promise which has no conditions is UNCONDITIONAL. It is absurd to claim that promises & covenants which do not employ the word "unconditional" are therefore conditional.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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You continue to leave out verse 27 that tells who God holds in His hand and why they will not perish.
Verse 27 does not say anything about anyone perishing. Scripture is clear:

I give them eternal life & the shall NEVER perish.

vs 27 does not contradict.

Should not perish, but have everlasting life!
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Did Paul beget you and become your daddy?

1 Corinthians 4:15-16, "For though you have countlessb guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father (3962. patér) in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."

Matthew 23:9, "And call no man your father (3962. patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."
Mat 23 forbids calling someone "my father." It does not forbid the metaphorical use of father for the man who told you the gospel & facilitated your new birth. In 1 Cor 4, no one is addressing anyone with the expression "father."
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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You have been adding UNconditional to Mt 1:21, Jesus will unconditionally save His people.

So will Jesus save people in their unbelief or must one conditionally believe to be saved? You cannot have it both ways.

"His people" that Jesus saved are Christians. Therefore one must conditionally believe, become a Christian to be one of His people that He saves.
Or does Jesus just unconditionally saves people at random whether they conditionally believe becoming a Christian or not?
Stop sticking in the words conditional & unconditional where they do not occur in the text. Stop making things up.

Just believe God's word.

Ps 34
YHWH redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

In II Thess. 3:3 “But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.”

In II Tim. 1:12 he sounds a note of rejoicing: “For I know Him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to guard that which I have committed unto Him against that day.”
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;


2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138
"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance,

Ephesians 1:1-23
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

< ps 138
thy right hand will save me.
Jehovah will perfect that which concerns me:
Thy lovingkindness, O Jehovah, endureth forever;

Heb 11:19ff

looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith,

Isaiah 26:12
Jehovah, thou wilt ordain peace for us; for thou hast also wrought all our works for us.

Eph 2
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Philip 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
1 Peter 4:18 "If it is hard for righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Matthew 22:14 "Many are called but few are chosen."

Matthew 24:13 "But the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

Revelation 2:10 "Be faithful even to the point of death and you will receive a crown of life."

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father."

1 Corinthians 9:27 "No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize."

What Paul said implies effort. What you say implies that all you have to do is be on the track, you don't have to run, you don't have to be active, you don't have to try, you can do nothing and still win the prize.

Judas was one of Christ's apostles, and he lost his salvation. Jesus said it would be better for him if he had never even been born.

You CAN choose to leave God. You CAN fall away. It is possible, and it does happen. (Hebrews 6:6).

Only those who remain faithful till the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:22)
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Will Jesus save you from your sins if you do not conditionally "believe" Jn 8:24; Jn 3:16?
He saves all who are His people. They become His people by believing -- not in the sense of answering "Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God & saying, 'Yes'," but in the sense of trust. You must trust Him as only & sufficient Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people FROM THEIR SINS.

It doesn't say He saves people after they stop sinning.
Faith before salvation.

Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved.

Salvation brings deliverance from sin.

How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation???
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Mat 23 forbids calling someone "my father." It does not forbid the metaphorical use of father for the man who told you the gospel & facilitated your new birth. In 1 Cor 4, no one is addressing anyone with the expression "father."
Philemon 1:9-11, "yet for love’s sake I prefer to appeal to you—I, Paul, an old man and now a prisoner also for Christ Jesus— I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I became in my imprisonment. (Formerly he was useless to you, but now he is indeed useful to you and to me.)"

Philemon 1:10 Text Analysis
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3870 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]parakalō[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]παρακαλῶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]I exhort[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIA-1S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4771 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]se[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]σε[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]you[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-A2S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4012 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]peri[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]περὶ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]for[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] -[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1699 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]emou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐμοῦ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]my[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-G1S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5043 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]teknou[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τέκνου,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]child,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-GNS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3739 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὃν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]whom[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]RelPro-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1080 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]egennēsa[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐγέννησα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"] I have begotten[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-1S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]en[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἐν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]tois[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τοῖς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"][my][/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-DMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1199 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]desmois[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]δεσμοῖς,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]chains,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-DMP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3682 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Onēsimon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Ὀνήσιμον,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Onesimus;[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS








[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So Paul begets people and says he is their father...

1 Corinthians 4:15-16, "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father (3962. patér) in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."

Matthew 23:9, "And call no man your father (3962. patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

Paul is human and made errors.

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."


Psalm 2:7
English Standard Version
I will tell of the decree: The LORD (YHWH) said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.

Other may go and worship the "unknown god" in the aeropagus....

Yahshua 24:15, "But if it seems evil to you to serve Yahweh, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve--whether the gods your fathers served on the other side of the River; Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you now live; BUT AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE: WE WILL SERVE YAHWEH!"

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

PSALM 110
"Yahweh said to my Ruler and King: Sit at My right hand, until I make Your enemies Your footstool."

 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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1 Peter 4:18 "If it is hard for righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Matthew 22:14 "Many are called but few are chosen."

Matthew 24:13 "But the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

Revelation 2:10 "Be faithful even to the point of death and you will receive a crown of life."

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father."

1 Corinthians 9:27 "No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize."

What Paul said implies effort. What you say implies that all you have to do is be on the track, you don't have to run, you don't have to be active, you don't have to try, you can do nothing and still win the prize.

Judas was one of Christ's apostles, and he lost his salvation. Jesus said it would be better for him if he had never even been born.

You CAN choose to leave God. You CAN fall away. It is possible, and it does happen. (Hebrews 6:6).

Only those who remain faithful till the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:22)
You present a hodgepodge of improperly applied texts. None of these "proof" texts support the idea that one can or would lose or turn away from their salvation.

When Jesus told the Jews that those who endured to the end would be saved Jesus was speaking to the future tribulation time. This in no way applies to the church in the current age.

Someone who is truly born again will never have any desire to return to their prior state of condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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1 Peter 4:18 "If it is hard for righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Matthew 22:14 "Many are called but few are chosen."
Of course, the offer of free salvation goes to many, including you. But many do not accept it, apparently like yourself.


Why do you quote a verse about tribulation saints making it to the end of the tribulation despite suffering?

Matthew 24:13 "But the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."
From where do you get "stands firm" for "endures (against opposition)"?
The text says

"For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places. 8 But all these things are the beginning of travail. 9 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray. 12 And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold.
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come."


This passage is not about salvation from sin to eternal life, but persisting in the Tribulation until Christ returns.

But in the eternal security of the believer, all believers do endure. They endure because they have a Savior.

Revelation 2:10 "Be faithful even to the point of death and you will receive a crown of life."

Crowns are rewards for Christians and based on works. Crowns (victors wreaths are not salvation).

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father."

Totally irrelevant. Of course addressing Christ as Lord in the judgment does not bring salvation -- that was already settled long ago in this lifre.

1 Corinthians 9:27 "No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize."

Again, a verse on rewards, which are earned by works; but salvation is a free gift for faith.

What Paul said implies effort. What you say implies that all you have to do is be on the track, you don't have to run, you don't have to be active, you don't have to try, you can do nothing and still win the prize.
You confuse judgment with salvation & with rewards. Rewards (5 victor's wreath crowns mentioned in scripture) are for works. But becoming a child of God depends only on trusting the Savior. Will you do it today?

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

Judas was one of Christ's apostles, and he lost his salvation. Jesus said it would be better for him if he had never even been born.
For $64,000 quote one verse that ever says Judas was saved. Judas had a demon.

You CAN choose to leave God. You CAN fall away. It is possible, and it does happen. (Hebrews 6:6).
I cannot chose to stop being a child of God, which I became by new birth, any more than I can choose to stop being a child of my earthly father. Heb 6 is explained in 6:9, which should not be ignored.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak

The apostates in the preceding verses never were saved. As 1 John 2 tells us, apostatizing from the faith shows a man was never part of the Body of Christ. Professing believers indeed may deny the faith, never having been born again.


[/quote]Only those who remain faithful till the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:22)[/QUOTE]

Why do you stick "remain faithful" where no "faithful" occurs in the text?

And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child: and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

Again you quote from a verse about enduring during the tribulation & finding physical relief from the suffering of the trib. However it is also a fact that all believers do endure to the end.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.

When will you trust Christ as only & sufficient Savior?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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I don't know why Hizikyah is arguing his topic here, as it is off topic. The topic is Eternal Security (once saved, saved!) -- the astounding belief that once a man is saved, why he is saved!

So Paul begets people and says he is their father...
Paul is human and made errors.
Yes, I think Paul erred at the end of Acts by going to Jerusalem despite warnings from God. But the prophesies Paul uttered & wrote are free from errors.

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

The Lord through prophet Peter endorsed prophet Paul's epistles as SCRIPTURE.

He whom God sends (as a prophet) speaks God's word, for God does not give the Spirit by measure -- there is no partial inspiration.

1 Cor 14:

" If any man thinketh himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandment of the Lord."
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
you know, many of us here disagree on points of doctrine -
my hope and prayer is that for those who do disagree with each other,
that they do it with the grace of our Lord and not with contemptuous or
self-righteous attitudes -
which show an unloving spirit and one that does not know how to exhibit
Godly tolerance.

remember, our Father calls each of us at different times and places, our
first priority should be to walk and He walked, at first this is quite the challenge,
but after we claim our position for a while, our fruits should bear witness of our Love
for our Father and for our brethren.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Right which goes back to my original point on this thread that "doubting" salvation is not faith! Those who demand that others doubt to be saved by faith...don't even understand what they are saying!
Salvation being conditional is a bible fact, that is why the bible gives so many warnings, admonishments and examples of people that fell away...."Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." Heb 3:12

Heb 3:12 makes no sense at all if eternal security were true. One would have a false faith thinking salvation cannot be lost under any circumstance. True faith understands salvation can be lost and guards against it.