It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Your saved by faith...you understand that doubting is not faith...right? And the reason you guys doubt is because your not in faith....get into faith and you can be saved also :)
No doubt is a sin, and the way one knows and does not have to doubt that they have eternal life is if their walk/actions match what the scriptures say. If your walk/actions do not match what both Jesus, Peter, and Paul said, and even confirmed by James and John. Then your faith is still lacking, this is the reason why the two Jesus and Paul mainly showed us these things that a believer would and should do. To have assurance of eternal life.

Which all I keep saying, it is not being judgmental or causing doubt. It is about helping those who are still walking disorderly to turn away from those ways, to walk in a proper manner in which we are all called to do as children of God.
You can call me whatever you want, but I will continue to teach in the same manner that Paul taught in.
Reprove, rebuke, and then exhort my fellow brothers and sister in Christ, if they are walking in a disorderly or false understanding or teaching.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Were you worryin' when you read the OT?
Does your theology above apply to those OT folks?
Did anyone back then benefit from God's grace?

Or is God's grace ONLY for guys like you in the new covenant?

BTW, a covenant is NOT all one-sided ... both partners have commitments in a covenant.
Grace was how God forgave sin in the OT. David said blessed is the man to whom Jehovah will not impute iniquity. Psalm 32:2 and Rom 4:6

Didn't Ellen teach you that?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
No doubt is a sin, and the way one knows and does not have to doubt that they have eternal life is if their walk/actions match what the scriptures say. If your walk/actions do not match what both Jesus, Peter, and Paul said, and even confirmed by James and John. Then your faith is still lacking, this is the reason why the two Jesus and Paul mainly showed us these things that a believer would and should do. To have assurance of eternal life.

Which all I keep saying, it is not being judgmental or causing doubt. It is about helping those who are still walking disorderly to turn away from those ways, to walk in a proper manner in which we are all called to do as children of God.
You can call me whatever you want, but I will continue to teach in the same manner that Paul taught in.
Reprove, rebuke, and then exhort my fellow brothers and sister in Christ, if they are walking in a disorderly or false understanding or teaching.
I hope someday you can be set free from the sin and bondage you are in and know the power of Gods grace to overcome your weaknesses.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
but I will continue to teach in the same manner that Paul taught in.
Your works-for-salvation is diametrically opposed to what the word of God says, particular prophet (e.g., Paul) is unimportant.

:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— 4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
I see so much of this watered down gospel
If ever any false gospel was watered down it is yours! You have watered down the gospel of by grace through faith with water & works.


1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus[/B], that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or
by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as
Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Eph

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one should boast
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rev 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father . . . . 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
 
Last edited:
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Your works-for-salvation is diametrically opposed to what the word of God says, particular prophet (e.g., Paul) is unimportant.

:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— 4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

You falsely make things up again, as I do not preach works-for-salvation as in works to earn salvation.
I preach the true gospel that when you are a true born again believer you will do works out of love for Him.
The fact of the matter is that repentance and baptism both needed for remission of sins is biblical, as first of all the Lord commanded both. As repentance is about a change in mind toward the sins you have been walking in causing you to be enmity to God. Then through baptism is how one is born again.
Without either one of those as shown in Acts 2:38 you do not receive remission of sins from the Lord. and Jesus says without repentance and being born again you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

[h=1]Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith (belief) comes by hearing the word, and not from repentance. [/h]Repentance is an act that a true believer does about their sins, they have a change of mind about them.
That change of mind leads them to turn away and not walk in them any more. There is not one scripture in the bible that says you can have mere belief and still be saved. Lord Jesus says those who believe in Him are those who hear His word and then live it out in their life, as in being a doer of His word.
He says clearly if you hear only what He says, but do not do then your foundation was not built on Him and immediately you will fall for not having your faith grounded in Him.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
No, a watered down gospel is like you do. Taking away things the Lord commanded !!!


If ever any false gospel was watered down it is yours! You have watered down the gospel of by grace through faith with water & works.


1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus[/B], that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or
by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as
Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Eph

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one should boast
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rev 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father . . . . 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Repentance is not a change of mind going from unbelief to belief.
Repentance is a change of mind. Salvation comes when a man trusts Christ as Savior (believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved).

When a man stops unbelieving & starts believing that is A CHANGE OF MIND! Salvation, as has been proven, over & over again is offered just for believing. Thus it follows that the only Repentance that saves is the change from non-belief to belief.

So yes, saving Repentance is a change of mind from unbelief to belief.

Now when will you have that change?


Your belief is established from hearing the word, not repentance.
If belief is mediated by hearing God's Word, that does not alter the fact that metanoia is a change of mind & that going from unbelief to belief is a change of mind. Repentance is the change.

Repentance of your sins is a response to your belief, as you then have a change of mind toward the sins you commit that make you enmity to God. That Godly sorrow you feel makes you want to turn away from them and not continue in them any more.
Godly sorrow may facilitate repentance, a change of mind indeed. But the only change of mind that saves is the change to believing in Christ as Savior. Believers may have changes of mind after they are saved about their behavior, but that does not negate the fact that it is never sorrow for sin (metamelomai) which saves. Judas had that one & hanged himself.

Man alone can not do nothing pleasing to God, which is why the Holy Spirit was sent here.
To guide us and help us in areas we are weak in,
If man can do nothing to please God, then man must have a new birth to please God. The new birth comes by the Holy Spirit regenerating the sinner. It is not a matter of helping natural men in areas in which they are weak. There is none who does good, no not one. Man is sinful & corrupt; he is not just weak here & there. You seem to confuse the salvation of a man by regeneration with the empowerment by the Spirit after a man is saved. See John 3.

Why do you keep going on about works following the new birth? No one here I have ever read in confronting you has argued that good works do not follow salvation. But the order is God's grace & man's faith > salvation > good works. The order is not
good works > salvation.

And most assuredly the order is not
1) good works, 2) judgment of works > 3) salvation.

When will you despair of your self-righteousness and rest in the Savior for your eternal destiny? Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
No, a watered down gospel is like you do. Taking away things the Lord commanded !!!
You have the water-boy gospel, that of water. I do not take away things the Lord commanded, & you cannot show that I have. The Lord has commanded many things which are to be obeyed. But salvation does not come by keeping a set of commandments. Do not confuse the gospel of salvation by grace through faith with the body of commandments. The only commandment to obey to obtain salvation is

Believe on the Lord Jesus, & you shall be saved.

Do not water down the gospel with water!


Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

[All them who believer, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]

for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
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Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

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Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Repentance is a change of mind. Salvation comes when a man trusts Christ as Savior (believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved).

When a man stops unbelieving & starts believing that is A CHANGE OF MIND! Salvation, as has been proven, over & over again is offered just for believing. Thus it follows that the only Repentance that saves is the change from non-belief to belief.

So yes, saving Repentance is a change of mind from unbelief to belief.

Now when will you have that change?




If belief is mediated by hearing God's Word, that does not alter the fact that metanoia is a change of mind & that going from unbelief to belief is a change of mind. Repentance is the change.



Godly sorrow may facilitate repentance, a change of mind indeed. But the only change of mind that saves is the change to believing in Christ as Savior. Believers may have changes of mind after they are saved about their behavior, but that does not negate the fact that it is never sorrow for sin (metamelomai) which saves. Judas had that one & hanged himself.



If man can do nothing to please God, then man must have a new birth to please God. The new birth comes by the Holy Spirit regenerating the sinner. It is not a matter of helping natural men in areas in which they are weak. There is none who does good, no not one. Man is sinful & corrupt; he is not just weak here & there. You seem to confuse the salvation of a man by regeneration with the empowerment by the Spirit after a man is saved. See John 3.

Why do you keep going on about works following the new birth? No one here I have ever read in confronting you has argued that good works do not follow salvation. But the order is God's grace & man's faith > salvation > good works. The order is not
good works > salvation.

And most assuredly the order is not
1) good works, 2) judgment of works > 3) salvation.

When will you despair of your self-righteousness and rest in the Savior for your eternal destiny? Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling.

Atwood I don't know where you get your biblical teaching from, but I would caution you to go to the bible and use other sources then what you have been using. Everywhere the bible speaks about repentance it is the change of mind toward your sins. Not going from unbelief to belief.
I showed you how the bible says that faith comes by hearing the word, and in that trust in what it says it leads you to repent of your sins. Lord Jesus says until you repent of your sins you will still perish, not saved yet. Then He says you must be born again, and that is done through baptism.
When you are immersed in water you are buried into His death, and then your rising up is symbolic of His resurrection to be born again in the Spirit. Then you are given remission of sins at that time, your future sins still have to be confessed to receive that remission.

(Acts 2:38, Acts 10:47, 1 John, Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12, 1 Peter 3:21)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Repentance is a change of mind. Salvation comes when a man trusts Christ as Savior (believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved).

When a man stops unbelieving & starts believing that is A CHANGE OF MIND! Salvation, as has been proven, over & over again is offered just for believing. Thus it follows that the only Repentance that saves is the change from non-belief to belief.

So yes, saving Repentance is a change of mind from unbelief to belief.
So when he said repent, he meant you can still kill, lie and steal but instead of thinking its acceptable, just think its bad?

Acts 2:38 "Then Kepha said to them; Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, 1in the Name of Yahshua Messiah for the remission of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Atwood I don't know where you get your biblical teaching from, but I would caution you to go to the bible and use other sources then what you have been using. Everywhere the bible speaks about repentance it is the change of mind toward your sins. Not going from unbelief to belief.
I showed you how the bible says that faith comes by hearing the word, and in that trust in what it says it leads you to repent of your sins. Lord Jesus says until you repent of your sins you will still perish, not saved yet. Then He says you must be born again, and that is done through baptism.
When you are immersed in water you are buried into His death, and then your rising up is symbolic of His resurrection to be born again in the Spirit. Then you are given remission of sins at that time, your future sins still have to be confessed to receive that remission.

(Acts 2:38, Acts 10:47, 1 John, Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12, 1 Peter 3:21)
The Greek word for repentance is meta noia...literally means to change ones mind..and clearly the bible is teaching to repent from unbelief and from dead works!

Heb 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
You falsely make things up again, as I do not preach works-for-salvation as in works to earn salvation.
You have posted salvation by works citing the Sheep & Goat Judgment claiming that people are not saved until the outcome of that judgment. Have you repented of that false gospel? And here again you advocate the human work of water baptism for salvation.

The only repentance that saves is from unbelief to belief in the Savior.
Spirit baptism is salvific, but it is something God does, not what man does.

Jesus says without repentance and being born again you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Repentance is what man does when he changes from unbelief to belief; Born again is what God does.
Faith (belief) comes by hearing the word, and not from repentance.

The point is not about from where faith comes. The point is that a change from unbelief to belief is repentance, the only repentance that saves. Saying that faith is mediated by hearing God's word is a red herring & irrelevant to the point that salvation is by belief alone & that repentance is a change of mind, which is what happens when you change from trusting in the idol of water or good works & start trusting the Savior with your eternal destiny.

Repentance is an act that a true believer does about their sins, they have a change of mind about them.
One can have a change of mind about many things. But a believer is already saved & his change from non-belief to belief is what brings salvation. Of course after being saved, many ideas many be changed that a man has. But the topic is not what a believer does after being saved, but what MUST I DO to be saved.

The only MUST I DO is believe on the Lord Jesus. This is emphasize when the language is everyone who believes or all who believe or whosoever believes.

There is not one scripture in the bible that says you can have mere belief and still be saved.
utter nonsense. There are too many such passages even for one post on this forum.

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
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John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
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John 3:14-18
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; 15 that
whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

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John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
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John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
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John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
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John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
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John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
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John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
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JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
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Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

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Acts 16:31a
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . . .
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Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

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Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

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[All them who believer, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]

for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
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27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

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Rom 4:1ff

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
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4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
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6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

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10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
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14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
So when he said repent, he meant you can still kill, lie and steal but instead of thinking its acceptable, just think its bad?

Acts 2:38 "Then Kepha said to them; Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, 1in the Name of Yahshua Messiah for the remission of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Repent means a change of mind. Change from whatever is your mind set to trusting the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny. He who would be saved needs to change his mind from trusting in His good works, from thinking he will ever merit God's favor, plead spiritual bankruptcy. Then trust the Savior who promises:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. Do not confuse the issue of attaining salvation with what follows salvation.

Eph 2 explains it:
1) faith (no works) > salvation > works.
Not works > salvation.

It is not the Pharisee who brags on his filty rags righteousness, but the sinner who trusts the Savior who is justified: God be merciful to me a sinner.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, & that no of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship created unto good works.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it
Heb 3:16-19, "For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Only in the modern western mindset is there a difference between faith and obedience.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Repent means a change of mind. Change from whatever is your mind set to trusting the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny. He who would be saved needs to change his mind from trusting in His good works, from thinking he will ever merit God's favor, plead spiritual bankruptcy. Then trust the Savior who promises:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. Do not confuse the issue of attaining salvation with what follows salvation.

Eph 2 explains it:
1) faith (no works) > salvation > works.
Not works > salvation.

It is not the Pharisee who brags on his filty rags righteousness, but the sinner who trusts the Savior who is justified: God be merciful to me a sinner.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, & that no of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship created unto good works.
So stopping killing, lying and stealing would warrant one to be accused of "boasting on their works"

So do I have to be super evil to be saved?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
As soon as the word obedience or Law is spoken the grenades fly....

Isayah 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil righteous, and righteous evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"