Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

[notuptome]

There you go again reading more into what I said !!!

Is explaining things to you in biblical terms going to sink in yet. I am not telling God what to do, as I use scripture to show who He says He gives the Holy Spirit to. If you do not like those scriptures, then you need to talk to Him in prayer and not make false allegations toward me.
I do not judge another's salvation, what I do is take and help others to make sure they are walking properly in the faith. Which this is what we are called to do, if you believe you were not called to help others get stronger in their faith and make sure they are walking properly then you have skipped over almost half of Paul's writings in his epistles.


Matthew 28:19 is water baptism, as the same word used here is the same as in Mark 16:16.....Baptizo !!!

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[TD="width: 50%"]bap-tid'-zo[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 2"] Definition[/TD]
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1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3. to overwhelm

You can try to take the water part out all you want, but by going with what Peter, and Paul did in Acts shows that water was never omitted from baptism. That and Peter puts an emphasis in Acts 10:47 that no man can forbid water usage in baptism. I have received the word, which is why He has shown me water is still part of baptism. And you take and contradict yourself in your own response........

You said this;

" Firstly I never claimed that man baptized with the Holy Spirit "

Then you said this;

" Mathew 28:19 is clearly not water baptism "

Well if you are in agreement that man does not baptize with the Holy Spirit, which all should be in agreement with. Then Matthew 28:19 has to be an immersion in water, for this was commanded to the apostles/disciples to do. And there is no other way of baptizing.......

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You post this stuff but you do not comprehend it. Your own information clearly shows that Mathew 28 cannot be water baptism. Baptizo is used in relation to Holy Spirit baptism while bapto is used in relation to water baptism.

You seem to lack a basis in grace and a basis in forgiveness from which to draw proper doctrinal conclusions about this subject.

Your exegesis of Acts 10 is completely biased to support a predetermined doctrine and not the truth that the passage demonstrates.

Accept Gods grace and learn to receive forgiveness. Water baptism will be far less important when you really understand Gods grace. Salvation is all about what God has done not what man must or even can do.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

You post this stuff but you do not comprehend it. Your own information clearly shows that Mathew 28 cannot be water baptism. Baptizo is used in relation to Holy Spirit baptism while bapto is used in relation to water baptism.

You seem to lack a basis in grace and a basis in forgiveness from which to draw proper doctrinal conclusions about this subject.

Your exegesis of Acts 10 is completely biased to support a predetermined doctrine and not the truth that the passage demonstrates.

Accept Gods grace and learn to receive forgiveness. Water baptism will be far less important when you really understand Gods grace. Salvation is all about what God has done not what man must or even can do.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Where do you get that from what I posted ???

Baptizo is not Holy Spirit baptism, as man can not baptize with the Holy Spirit.
And the command of baptism in Matthew 28:19 was given to man to do, so it can not be Holy Spirit baptism.....

And my take on Acts 10 is not biased as it clearly shows in the last two verses, they had to be immersed in water to confirm and complete their born again process. Peter makes that very clear by saying no man can forbid that to be done.
Yet here you go if you state that we are not to, then you are forbidding it.......

 

[kennethcadwell]

The doctrine of regenerational water baptism is a false doctrine that the Lord never mentioned. Claiming a thousand times that regenerational water baptism is valid won't make it any less false than it is now.

Wrong. But as there is no convincing you of that, I'll move one. God bless.

Then you deny His command in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 which is immersion in water, as we can see in Acts as all the Apostles still carried out using water immersion in baptism. And Peter showed more than once that water was never omitted from baptism, and even emphasized that no man can forbid its usage........
I wonder why he made an emphasis on that no man can forbid, maybe because baptizo ( immersion in water ) was commanded by the Lord.......

Then you say wrong about what I said about disobeying what the Lord said.
So you think you can be in fellowship with Him, but deny to keep and follow His teachings ????

That's very dangerous teaching if that is what you believe....

 

[notuptome]

Where do you get that from what I posted ???

Baptizo is not Holy Spirit baptism, as man can not baptize with the Holy Spirit.
And the command of baptism in Matthew 28:19 was given to man to do, so it can not be Holy Spirit

Mathew is not Holy Spirit baptism nor is it water baptism. It is doctrinal teaching and that is clear from the context of the passage. You are forcing something into the passage that is not there.

And my take on Acts 10 is not biased as it clearly shows in the last two verses, they had to be immersed in water to confirm and complete their born again process. Peter makes that very clear by saying no man can forbid that to be done.
Yet here you go if you state that we are not to, then you are forbidding it.......

People who are saved are permitted to receive water baptism. Their salvation was complete the moment they believed. Salvation is not a process but an event. Acts 8 clarifies the matter when it is compared to this passage.

As long as you force water baptism into the matter of salvation you will remain in error. You must learn to allow God to forgive you by His grace and not force works into the equation.

Rome really messed you up.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

Mathew is not Holy Spirit baptism nor is it water baptism. It is doctrinal teaching and that is clear from the context of the passage. You are forcing something into the passage that is not there.

People who are saved are permitted to receive water baptism. Their salvation was complete the moment they believed. Salvation is not a process but an event. Acts 8 clarifies the matter when it is compared to this passage.

As long as you force water baptism into the matter of salvation you will remain in error. You must learn to allow God to forgive you by His grace and not force works into the equation.

Rome really messed you up.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

There is no other baptism notuptome...........

You either have the immersion in water that man does, stating I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.....or as Peter in Acts states in His name........

Or you have the baptism of the Holy Spirit that only the Lord Jesus Christ can administer.........

There is not other baptism then that, and to say Matthew 28:19 is neither one of those is to add in another baptism, which in no way does the bible teach. So you either have immersion in water in His name, or it is Holy Spirit. By going by scripture and the original Greek you can see that it is immersion. As you once again contradicted yourself again, because in post #181 Matthew 28:19 is Holy Spirit baptism and now you are saying in post #184 it is neither Holy Spirit or water.....

You would be interjecting another baptism that does not exist........
As the Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 baptism was derived from John's baptism, and here is how it changed;

John baptized in water for the remission of sins ( Now that the Lord has come and was crucified the remission comes from Him )

So now the baptizing in water is into Him ( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ) to receive that remission. (Acts 2:38)

No as long as those who try to take away the Lords commands will be in error................

 

[Jason0047]

The OT believers were imputed righteousness because of their belief and trust in God and in the coming Messiah. Was there a time when people had to live according to the law to the best of their ability and that is how they are judged?
Not sure . . .
"But before faith came" - was there a time before "faith" came? I'm not sure how this "faith" is different but I do know that there was a time "before faith came" - But it seems it would have to do with the "faith of Jesus Christ" if we read the context: But the scripture concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith. [Gal. 3:22-24]

Was the "new birth" available before the day of Pentecost?

As I am sure you are aware, baptism is an outward showing of one being born again spiritually. Just as circumcision in the flesh is an outward showing of one being circumcised in heart. How so?

Ezekiel 44:9

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel."


​

Did you catch that? This above passage says there is a difference between one being circumcised in heart and one being circumcised in the flesh. Who does this circumcision of the heart? Scripture says the Lord our God will circumcise your heart.

Deuteronomy 30:6

"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

​

And this is why we are of the circumcision, too.

Philippians 3:3

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh."

​

Stephen, in Acts 7, described the Israelites as “you stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears”.

“Stiffnecked” is a picture from an agricultural society where animals such as horses, or donkeys, or oxen were used for plowing and pulling things. A horse has a bridle and a bit in its mouth. When you want it to turn you turn its head by pulling on the reins. The horse should then turn its head and go in the direction you want it to. A stiff-necked animal is the one who will not turn, goes its own way, and keeps its neck stiff. This is a picture of a stubborn person who wants to go their own way and is not willing to submit to God. The uncircumcised person is someone who is stiff-necked and stubborn and wants to go his own way. On the other hand, someone who has a circumcised heart is obedient. They are submissive and willing, they trust the Lord like an obedient animal, trusting its master.

This is spelled out many times in the Old Testament . They did not have to guess what circumcision symbolized because God told them many times. For example, in Ezekiel 36:26, God says to them “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.” He goes on to explain in v. 27: “I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you will keep my judgments and do them.” Read verses 22-32 here and it will become all to clear that this is not just a future prophecy alone but it was something the Lord was going to do for Israel when they were yet still alive if they were to obey Him. For God Word says, " The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you."

Furthermore, the idea of an obedient, regenerated heart is even clearer when we look atRomans 2:25. Paul explains: “For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.”

Anyways, if anyone here is interested in learning more, I would highly recommend reading the entire article here...

How Old Testament saints were saved

Love, blessings and peace be unto you all from the Lord Jesus Christ.


Source Used:
How Old Testament saints were saved

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Then you deny His command in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 which is immersion in water ...

I deny that those two verses represent any such "command." Jesus commanded baptism, but not for salvation. If you belong to Him, testify to Him, and the first way to testify is to publicly proclaim you are His through baptism. There is nothing expressed or implied about water baptism being regenerational.

Then you say wrong about what I said about disobeying what the Lord said.
So you think you can be in fellowship with Him, but deny to keep and follow His teachings ????

That's very dangerous teaching if that is what you believe....

There's nothing dangerous about believing the truth. You have not believed it, but added to it, making it a lie.

There are biblical passages that clearly and explicitly declare faith to be the only requirement for salvation. John 3:16, one of the most well-known verses in the Bible, states, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” In Acts 16:30, the Philippian jailer asks the apostle Paul, “What must I do to be saved?” If there was ever an opportunity for Paul to present a four-part formula, this was it. Paul’s response was simple: “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).

No baptism, no confession, just faith. That's all there is. However, having had this discussion countless times before and knowing that you will not change your mind, I will not go back and forth with you. The truth is obvious, for those who will see it.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I deny that those two verses represent any such "command." Jesus commanded baptism, but not for salvation. If you belong to Him, testify to Him, and the first way to testify is to publicly proclaim you are His through baptism. There is nothing expressed or implied about water baptism being regenerational.

There's nothing dangerous about believing the truth. You have not believed it, but added to it, making it a lie.

There are biblical passages that clearly and explicitly declare faith to be the only requirement for salvation. John 3:16, one of the most well-known verses in the Bible, states, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” In Acts 16:30, the Philippian jailer asks the apostle Paul, “What must I do to be saved?” If there was ever an opportunity for Paul to present a four-part formula, this was it. Paul’s response was simple: “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).

No baptism, no confession, just faith. That's all there is. However, having had this discussion countless times before and knowing that you will not change your mind, I will not go back and forth with you. The truth is obvious, for those who will see it.

But at the same time though the bible and the words of our Lord clearly say that those who love Him will keep His commands, and those who don't do not keep and do His commands.
So then we still have a delima here; either it is a command for salvation, or it is just a command to a believer to do to show love and obedience to Him.
In both cases the bible says that if you deny His commands you are not His, rather that command is directly tied to salvation or not. To not do it would still show disobedience......

You can not say you have true faith in Him if you deny His commands to repent, be baptized, keep your confession in Him, and not forgive others. The Lord Jesus made it clear that if these are not part of your walk, you are not saved.....

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

But at the same time though the bible and the words of our Lord clearly say that those who love Him will keep His commands, and those who don't do not keep and do His commands.
So then we still have a delima here; either it is a command for salvation, or it is just a command to a believer to do to show love and obedience to Him.
In both cases the bible says that if you deny His commands you are not His, rather that command is directly tied to salvation or not. To not do it would still show disobedience......

That's true, up to a point, but part of keeping His commands involves keeping them for the proper reasons. Would you go so far to say that communion, for example, is such a command, and that not taking communion when offered is a disobedience? Yet Paul says that one must take communion with a right attitude, and Jesus said if one's heart is not right or one holds something against a brother, he should not make an offering, though it is a command to make the offering.

If you're going to be dogmatic about one, you must be dogmatic about the rest, or you risk being in disobedience yourself.

You can not say you have true faith in Him if you deny His commands to repent, be baptized, keep your confession in Him, and not forgive others.[/quote]Yes I can, because none of those is required for salvation. They are all the result of salvation.

The Lord Jesus made it clear that if these are not part of your walk, you are not saved.....

No, He does not. That is a badly misinterpreted and incorrect version of the Gospel. You need to repent of it. And now, I'm done. This is going nowhere, and it is useless to argue with a wall.

May the Lord reveal to whichever one of us is in error. God bless.

 

[kennethcadwell]

That's true, up to a point, but part of keeping His commands involves keeping them for the proper reasons. Would you go so far to say that communion, for example, is such a command, and that not taking communion when offered is a disobedience? Yet Paul says that one must take communion with a right attitude, and Jesus said if one's heart is not right or one holds something against a brother, he should not make an offering, though it is a command to make the offering.

If you're going to be dogmatic about one, you must be dogmatic about the rest, or you risk being in disobedience yourself.

You can not say you have true faith in Him if you deny His commands to repent, be baptized, keep your confession in Him, and not forgive others.

Yes I can, because none of those is required for salvation. They are all the result of salvation.

No, He does not. That is a badly misinterpreted and incorrect version of the Gospel. You need to repent of it. And now, I'm done. This is going nowhere, and it is useless to argue with a wall.

May the Lord reveal to whichever one of us is in error. God bless.[/QUOTE]


Yes confession and forgiveness is required for salvation.......

The Lord clearly says that if you do not confess Him before others, you will be denied before the Father in heaven.
( If your denied before God, you do not have salvation/eternal life. )

The Lord clearly says that if you do not forgive others, He will not forgive you before the Father in heaven.
( If your sins have not been forgiven and covered by the Lord, then you do not have salvation/eternal life. )

Apostle Paul confirms both of those, so to say they are not needed for salvation is flawed...
That theology was started up by some who wanted to excuse their hatred toward others as acceptable, which the Lord does not. And of course if you deny Him to be your Lord, then of course He won't be and you will not be in heaven.

This goes along with those who make one salvation/eternal life an upfront automatic possession of ours in which the bible says no such thing......Two words are used in scripture for believe and salvation; pisteuó and echo.

pisteuo - means a continuance of.....

echo - means to possess in the mind, mental assurance....

Which this would explain the multiple scriptures that say only if you continue in His grace are you saved, and the others that say you must endure, stand firm, and not faulter to the end to be saved....

 

[notuptome]

There is no other baptism notuptome...........

You either have the immersion in water that man does, stating I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.....or as Peter in Acts states in His name........

Or you have the baptism of the Holy Spirit that only the Lord Jesus Christ can administer.........

There is not other baptism then that, and to say Matthew 28:19 is neither one of those is to add in another baptism, which in no way does the bible teach. So you either have immersion in water in His name, or it is Holy Spirit. By going by scripture and the original Greek you can see that it is immersion. As you once again contradicted yourself again, because in post #181 Matthew 28:19 is Holy Spirit baptism and now you are saying in post #184 it is neither Holy Spirit or water.....

You would be interjecting another baptism that does not exist........
As the Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 baptism was derived from John's baptism, and here is how it changed;

John baptized in water for the remission of sins ( Now that the Lord has come and was crucified the remission comes from Him )

So now the baptizing in water is into Him ( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ) to receive that remission. (Acts 2:38)

No as long as those who try to take away the Lords commands will be in error................

There is only one baptism that saves that being the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is for those who are already baptized in the Holy Spirit and are Christians.

Again your old Roman roots are showing and causing you to continue to err in your understanding of the scriptures. Water cannot save because it is a temporal element of this corrupt world. Only God saves by imposing His Holy Spirit upon the heart dead in sin and trespass quickening it to new life by His grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You mentioned Acts 10, so take a look at verses 47-48 as Peter commanded those men to be baptized by immersion in water to complete there process of being born again into Christ. The Lord knew these men would be obedient, and gave them the Holy Spirit, so Peter carried out the rest of their being born again process as commanded by the Lord to him.....
Peter lets it be know in those verses that no man can forbid the water immersion baptism commanded by the Lord. Showing that Holy Spirit given by the Lord, does not cancel out the baptism we as men are charged to do........

We are still called to administer that one baptism, as immersed into water in His name is the only baptism man can do.
The Lord gives the Holy Spirit, not man...........

Where does it say they were baptized to "COMPLETE THE PROCESS" of being born again? . . . They were baptized in water to confess publicly what was already accomplished in them. They were already born again, received the holy Spirit by hearing what Peter preached and believing. Remember faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God? They heard, they believed, they received = born again believers.
The one baptism is holy Spirit baptism. Water baptism cannot do what baptism in the Holy Spirit can do - it [water] cannot give birth to the "new man".

John truly baptized with water BUT BUT BUT . . . I will baptize you with Holy Spirit. BUT sets in contrast the two baptisms - God says there is ONE baptism in Ephesians . . . hmmm, which ONE? I believe the ONLY baptism that can give birth to the "new man" is baptism of Holy Spirit. BUT I do not want to discuss water baptism - been there done that . . .

 

[kennethcadwell]

There is only one baptism that saves that being the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is for those who are already baptized in the Holy Spirit and are Christians.

Again your old Roman roots are showing and causing you to continue to err in your understanding of the scriptures. Water cannot save because it is a temporal element of this corrupt world. Only God saves by imposing His Holy Spirit upon the heart dead in sin and trespass quickening it to new life by His grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Not necessarily as the Holy Spirit was only shown to be given first a couple of times, other times it was not given tell later.
To say that everybody gets the Holy Spirit before water baptized is not true by the scriptures. The Lord can administer the Holy Spirit to a believer at anytime in their walk in the faith.
Peter shows that in Acts 2:38 as he is telling those there to repent and be baptized to receive mission of sins, then he says after that they will received the Holy Spirit. Showing those in Acts 2:38 were baptized in water first, and repented before they received the Holy Spirit.
The other thing you need to get away from is saying my old Roman roots, as the Catholic church that I was in for 5 years did not teach me. As a matter of fact they taught very little scriptural in studies, mostly history.
My studies come from personal studies, and online biblical schooling from biblical scholars.......

Then you have Peter saying this, not me;

[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-21[/h]20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[a]in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

( This here is the same baptism mention in Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and Acts 10:47 )

 

[kennethcadwell]

Where does it say they were baptized to "COMPLETE THE PROCESS" of being born again? . . . They were baptized in water to confess publicly what was already accomplished in them. They were already born again, received the holy Spirit by hearing what Peter preached and believing. Remember faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God? They heard, they believed, they received = born again believers.
The one baptism is holy Spirit baptism. Water baptism cannot do what baptism in the Holy Spirit can do - it [water] cannot give birth to the "new man".

John truly baptized with water BUT BUT BUT . . . I will baptize you with Holy Spirit. BUT sets in contrast the two baptisms - God says there is ONE baptism in Ephesians . . . hmmm, which ONE? I believe the ONLY baptism that can give birth to the "new man" is baptism of Holy Spirit. BUT I do not want to discuss water baptism - been there done that . . .

It is part of the believers process, and a command from the Lord.
Peter makes that clear that no man can forbid water usage in baptism, this is because the Lord commanded it back in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16. (Baptizo-immersion in water)
I know people are always trying to eliminate the water part of baptism, but nowhere in the bible has it ever been omitted.


Then you have Peter saying this, not me;

1 Peter 3:20-21

20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[a]in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism(not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

( This here is the same baptism mention in Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and Acts 10:47 )

 

[peacefulbeliever]

As I am sure you are aware, baptism is an outward showing of one being born again spiritually. Just as circumcision in the flesh is an outward showing of one being circumcised in heart. How so?

Ezekiel 44:9

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel."
​

Did you catch that? This above passage says there is a difference between one being circumcised in heart and one being circumcised in the flesh. Who does this circumcision of the heart? Scripture says the Lord our God will circumcise your heart.

Deuteronomy 30:6

"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

​

And this is why we are of the circumcision, too.

Philippians 3:3

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh."

​

Stephen, in Acts 7, described the Israelites as “you stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears”.

“Stiffnecked” is a picture from an agricultural society where animals such as horses, or donkeys, or oxen were used for plowing and pulling things. A horse has a bridle and a bit in its mouth. When you want it to turn you turn its head by pulling on the reins. The horse should then turn its head and go in the direction you want it to. A stiff-necked animal is the one who will not turn, goes its own way, and keeps its neck stiff. This is a picture of a stubborn person who wants to go their own way and is not willing to submit to God. The uncircumcised person is someone who is stiff-necked and stubborn and wants to go his own way. On the other hand, someone who has a circumcised heart is obedient. They are submissive and willing, they trust the Lord like an obedient animal, trusting its master.

This is spelled out many times in the Old Testament . They did not have to guess what circumcision symbolized because God told them many times. For example, in Ezekiel 36:26, God says to them “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.” He goes on to explain in v. 27: “I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you will keep my judgments and do them.” Read verses 22-32 here and it will become all to clear that this is not just a future prophecy alone but it was something the Lord was going to do for Israel when they were yet still alive if they were to obey Him. For God Word says, " The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you."

Furthermore, the idea of an obedient, regenerated heart is even clearer when we look atRomans 2:25. Paul explains: “For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.”

Anyways, if anyone here is interested in learning more, I would highly recommend reading the entire article here...

How Old Testament saints were saved

Love, blessings and peace be unto you all from the Lord Jesus Christ.


Source Used:
How Old Testament saints were saved

Well, Jesus tells us the following:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7

And I pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be IN you. John 14:16,17

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

So Christ had to go away before the Comforter [Holy Spirit] could come; yet you say he was IN the OT believers?

The Comforter [Holy Spirit] will abide with you for ever; yet some say he will leave IF. He shall be IN you - immersed, filled - that is baptism with Holy Spirit.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It is part of the believers process, and a command from the Lord.
Peter makes that clear that no man can forbid water usage in baptism, this is because the Lord commanded it back in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16. (Baptizo-immersion in water)
I know people are always trying to eliminate the water part of baptism, but nowhere in the bible has it ever been omitted.

Then you have Peter saying this, not me;

1 Peter 3:20-21

20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[a]in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism(not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

( This here is the same baptism mention in Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and Acts 10:47 )

Water baptism was the figure of what was to come - the eight souls were saved or delivered from destruction by the ark. The Israelites were "baptized" in the Red Sea - they were saved and delivered from Pharaoh

And there was one who was mightier than John the Baptist who came, gave his life, was resurrected and now immerses those that believe on him with Holy Spirit.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Water baptism was the figure of what was to come - the eight souls were saved or delivered from destruction by the ark. The Israelites were "baptized" in the Red Sea - they were saved and delivered from Pharaoh

And there was one who was mightier than John the Baptist who came, gave his life, was resurrected and now immerses those that believe on him with Holy Spirit.

The baptism that was commanded for man to do in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 by the Lord is still immersion in water.
The bible over and over again tried to make that point to people, so it would not get lost.

You gave two examples with Noah, as Peter gave in 1 Peter they were saved through water. The flood (water) cleansed the world of its wickedness, and the 8 righteous members of Noah's family was saved from that wickedness.
Then with Moses and the red sea, as Paul gave us an example of in 1 Corinthians were they were baptized in water and spirit.....

Then you have these;

Hebrews 9:18-20
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.


Exodus 19:10-11
And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes, And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

Exodus 29:4
And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.






God has always used water in the sanctification process of those who have faith in Him, but now some are trying to take what God has always used away. To do that, by how I feel is a direct disregard to Him......
I will change my mind only if somebody can show one clear cut scripture that says water was done away with in the baptism process, and I doubt that will be done because I have seen pretty much every scripture one could use. And none of them do away with water, only if one reads more into those scriptures can one come to that conclusion.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The baptism that was commanded for man to do in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 by the Lord is still immersion in water.
The bible over and over again tried to make that point to people, so it would not get lost.

You gave two examples with Noah, as Peter gave in 1 Peter they were saved through water. The flood (water) cleansed the world of its wickedness, and the 8 righteous members of Noah's family was saved from that wickedness.
Then with Moses and the red sea, as Paul gave us an example of in 1 Corinthians were they were baptized in water and spirit.....

Then you have these;

Hebrews 9:18-20
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

Exodus 19:10-11
And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes, And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

Exodus 29:4
And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.

God has always used water in the sanctification process of those who have faith in Him, but now some are trying to take what God has always used away. To do that, by how I feel is a direct disregard to Him......
I will change my mind only if somebody can show one clear cut scripture that says water was done away with in the baptism process, and I doubt that will be done because I have seen pretty much every scripture one could use. And none of them do away with water, only if one reads more into those scriptures can one come to that conclusion.

Well there is only one baptism but two are distinctly mentioned in the Bible . . . you stick with water and I will stick with Holy Spirit.

It is the baptism with Holy Spirit gives us power to walk and be witnesses in this evil world. It is the baptism with Holy Spirit that enables us to walk by the Spirit. It is the baptism with Holy Spirit that chastises us and brings us to humble ourselves before God in forgiveness. It is the baptism with Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth.

BUT is a contraction that sets the subject spoken of in contrast to each other - this is the contrast of the two distinct baptisms - John truly baptized with water BUT you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well there is only one baptism but two are distinctly mentioned in the Bible . . . you stick with water and I will stick with Holy Spirit.

It is the baptism with Holy Spirit gives us power to walk and be witnesses in this evil world. It is the baptism with Holy Spirit that enables us to walk by the Spirit. It is the baptism with Holy Spirit that chastises us and brings us to humble ourselves before God in forgiveness. It is the baptism with Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth.

BUT is a contraction that sets the subject spoken of in contrast to each other - this is the contrast of the two distinct baptisms - John truly baptized with water BUT you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Here is the thing you are not catching though !!!

There is only one baptism that can be administered by man, and that is the immersion in water.

Man can not administer the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that is why John said one coming that is mightier then I........
Because only the Lord has the power to administer the Holy Spirit. So the baptism commanded by the Lord in the great commission of Matthew 28:19 and in Mark 16:16 for man to do, can not be the Holy Spirit the Lord does.......

I do not disagree with you on the Holy Spirit that guides us and helps us to walk properly, and keep away from a sinful nature. However to cancel out the baptism in His name that is done while being immersed in water can not be done away with as it is a direct command from Him.......Remember Lord Jesus said His words are not His own, but are Gods....
So to disregard what He said, is to disregard God.......

 

[Nick01]

I think the answer has to be "No", but not necessarily for the exact same reasons Jason cites.

Simply put, to be 'saved' is to be 'in Christ'. This is the essential underpinning of Paul's theology - we are united with Christ in his death, in order to be raised with him in his glory. His Spirit, the Counselor he promised, dwells in us as a down payment of that promise. By this, we call our heavenly Father 'Abba', and we can boldly approach the throne of heaven by the blood of Christ, our High Priest and Mediator.

To be saved is to be in Christ, and thus in the closest fellowship with God, apparent now, but fully realised later. But this fellowship is based on CHRIST DWELLING IN US, not on our own adherence to the covenant (which is why Israel failed). Having said that, "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ."